@Ice_Man
Man its ok to argue but some of your argument seems to be very Naive..Some are really good... Let me explain..
ok so your direct question is india giving up claim on azaad kashmir is concession!
Yes you got it..but again u did not answered and gave me these below naive statements...
if i am not mistaken didn't manmohan tell china to stop building a dam in azaad kashmir because it is disputed territory!!!! news.outlookindia.com | India Opposes China's Dam on the Brahmaputra
Isnt it true that its a disputed territory??? What wrong you see in it???
READ YOU CALL IT PAKISTAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR!!!!!!!!!!
Yes and you call it Azaad Kashmir..
^^^^^^^
What you did above is somehow bullshit india and my question..I asked India is ready to give up claim on ***(Azaad Kashmir)...we haven't done that...we are ready to do that...it should not be difficult to say weather you see it as concession or no...Simple Yes or No...and if no why you think it is not...
P.S : Just see how difficult it is for us to agree even on simple things...
you want a solution? i will give you a solution that we said for siachen as well both sides withdraw and deploy UN FORCES!! andmake the whole of kashmir a FREE NATION! but i know india will never accept it!
You are right india will never accept it...I am sure even pakistan wont accept it...becuase Pakistan stand is to have plebiscite and let kashmiri choose what they want... Again i told you that you have to come up with a solution that is acceptable to both...otherwise peace will never come.... You got to think out of the box...You have to think of a solution that is acceptable to Kashmiri's, pakistan and India...now what you wish...So please give it another try...
didn't the so called "peace talk drama" get initiated by india POST KARGIL? before kargil that trip could have meant anything...
Again a naive statement...First by calling it drama and then saying trip could have meant anything... What do you mean by anything ??? What could be the reasons of initiating that other than improving relations??? Refute my comment that Kargil created lot of
distrust among us... Are you saying that by creating distrust you
forced india to initiated peace talk
Even if i go with your comments Kargil was useless because even it forced India to talk to you it was all drama(as per you) and still no progress has been made...
and post kargil who spoilt the AGRASUMMIT! when mushraff was all set to sign on the dotted line regarding kashmir!!!! your BJP never wanted peace my friend and agra summit talks breakdown is proof enough!
Great add another angle to it...Now if BJP never wanted peace then why you did Kargil during BJP regime when you very well know that they do not want peace??? Any sane person will easliy find say that kargil achieved nothing...It was a strategical..political..diplomatic blunder...
Who told you agra summit was a failure just because of INdia?? Give me one independent proof if you can...
1) kargil like incident happened when you entered siachen!
Again you compared Siachen with Kargil without refuting my dissimilarities about both...Now either stop comparing them or refure my comments(check previous posts)
2) it forced india to talk to us because india realized if thismatter is not solved both sides will keep fighting with losses of lives & money!
Wrong...It cause more distrust among two nations thereby making peace process even more difficult...We have stopped talking to you after mumbai incident(though right after musharraf emergency) how do you ecpect india to come on taking table because of Kargil??? We are talking becuase india know that only way forward is peace and nothing else(especially after nukes come in picture) basis of Lahore trip..
3) you went to war in 1965 because to relieve the pressure on AKHNUR...so you crossed the international border inorder to stop our advance!
But why??? Becuase LOC is not just considered to be a line that can be crossed without any repurcurssions...
GOT IT???... and in case the advances are big it will mean full fledged war or alteast a limited war like Kargil...
4) well pakistan threated for a full fledge war if you attacked any area close to lahore besides we were following your example from the 65 war!!!
Hahahaha....INdia never planned any surgical strikes on Lahore...The strikes were planned against terrorist camps in ***(Azaad Kashmir)...b/w you just said that you were following 65..what does that mean?? One cannot take LOC lightly...
Comon agree to me that LOC cannot be taken lightly...Yes it is not IB but even then you got to respect LOC or else face war...similar to IB...That's why Pakistan always said(65, Kargil) that LOC has been crossed by Mujahideen's and not regular force...
ok proof? FBI? sounds good but what did FBI conclude i am sorry please elaborate with a credible source!!!
I told you to chuck it(Leave it)..So let's leave it there.. i dont want to start another discussion on something which have been discussed in details.. Though with no intentions of talking more about it..Here is a link
Federal Bureau of Investigation - Congressional Testimony
so unless this "investigation" ends no peace talk? who is derailing the peace process now? pakistan government wasn't involved in the mumbai attacks were we!!
Terror against india emanating from your soil...your nationals involved in it..and still we see that terror infrastructure in not dismantled and you expect india to talk peace?? Dont you think condition for peace needs to be created first??
and please internal external problem don't try to change your words you said hafeez is a pakistani national and his trial in pakistan is a farce! to that i responded by giving the example of babri masjid issue!!! two wrongs don't make a right but unfortunately india & pakistan justice is slow & sometimes incorrect! my opinon of saeed is exactly what you think of BAL THACKREY OR MODI OR TYTLER that is my stand & i maintain it!
I am just saying that you cannot compare the two because one is internal problem and the external..but anyways no action on saeed will have effect on relations because he impacted us...Modi or Tytler have not impacted Pakistani interests...apart from that i agree with you about our judicial process...thats where i am saying complement your lack of action on saeed(due to whatever reason) with distrust that we have each other how do you expect india not to see it as lack of will when even nuetral agencies found LET direct involvement in Mumbai Attack???
& stop making excuses for derailing of the peace process!!!
Mumbai attack is an excuse..No stable govt(talking about Musharraf emergency)..in pak is an excuse???