JuD will continue to operate in Pakistan: Spokesperson

[TankMan]

BLA was banned for its activities...had nothing to do with India or any Indian organization..

It was banned because Pakistan raised its concerns about its activities.

JUD was banned after 26/11...a direct result of our efforts diplomatically and with the evidence we shared with the UN...

They were still looking for evidence in 2012 and probably still are. The reasons JuD was banned were that Indian lobbyists have more influence than Pakistanis, and that JuD had a habit of constantly bad-mouthing India, the West and the US. Evidence-wise, no one has anything.

Just look at this video, shared by @Abu Zolfiqar. Skip to 1:05, where the US State Dept. spokesman admits they need evidence that can withstand scrutiny. i.e they don't have any.

No we can prove that Pakistanis are involved in terrorism against India.

Pakistanis or Pakistan? You can't prove anything.

JUD being banned as an outfit by the UN is evidence enough

The UN banned JuD, not Pakistan. Pakistan itself banned JuD too. Your point is completely invalid.
Just what are you trying to say here - first you say Pakistan is supporting terrorism, then you say JuD is terrorist and then you say JuD is banned by Pakistan because of terrorism - so that means Pakistan is NOT supporting terrorism.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The UN banned JuD, not Pakistan. Pakistan itself banned JuD too. Your point is completely invalid.
Just what are you trying to say here - first you say Pakistan is supporting terrorism, then you say JuD is terrorist and then you say JuD is banned by Pakistan because of terrorism - so that means Pakistan is NOT supporting terrorism.

the indians here are as confused as the journalists in the video I posted above

I suggest Pakistanis watch it as well. It's not available on Daily Motion. I've been using VPN+TOR browser to access YouTube it's not quick but it works.

Please read before replying in the future...

My post clearly states wrt JUD as a terrorist organization...
UN bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa; declares it a terror outfit - The Times of India

The video you posted speaks to specific evidence against Hafiz Saeed...

Neverthelesss, if the UN security council (US included) believe the organization is a terrorist, then it wouldn't be too far to think that the terrorist activities are being hidden from its leader HS or does not have his approval and support...
The terror designation was provided based on India evidence against the involvement of the group...

Its like saying that the SS is accused of war crimes, but since we dont have any direct evidence against Himmler, he is scott free of any wrong doing..

did you watch the video at least?

you indians should remember this video the next time you claim the world has evidence against him or that there's a "bounty" on his head

 

[TankMan]

the indians here are as confused as the journalists in the video I posted above

I suggest Pakistanis watch it as well. It's not available on Daily Motion. I've been using VPN+TOR browser to access YouTube it's not quick but it works.

I've downloaded the video, will take a while but I'll get it up here or on dailymotion.

 

[Peshwa]

It was banned because Pakistan raised its concerns about its activities.

RIIIIIIIIGHT!!!

They were still looking for evidence in 2012 and probably still are. The reasons JuD was banned were that Indian lobbyists have more influence than Pakistanis, and that JuD had a habit of constantly bad-mouthing India, the West and the US. Evidence-wise, no one has anything.

Just look at this video, shared by @Abu Zolfiqar. Skip to 1:05, where the US State Dept. spokesman admits they need evidence that can withstand scrutiny. i.e they don't have any.

I think both you and Apu need to give more scrutiny to the evidence you present.

The video states evidence against HS...NOT JUD!! Do you see the difference?
JUD was already banned at this point... Implication of HS as an individual and taking him to court is what is being discussed in the video...

Pakistanis or Pakistan? You can't prove anything.

Pakistanis...ie. groups or people within your country..

The UN banned JuD, not Pakistan. Pakistan itself banned JuD too. Your point is completely invalid.
Just what are you trying to say here - first you say Pakistan is supporting terrorism, then you say JuD is terrorist and then you say JuD is banned by Pakistan because of terrorism - so that means Pakistan is NOT supporting terrorism.

I have been very clear in my writing...I cant help that you're not careful enough to read...
Pakistanis have been involved in terrorism against India...JUD being Pakistani org with Pakistani members...
We provided evidence of JUD involved in terrorism which until now Pakistan denied even though the UN banned the org as a terrorist group..
So until now, the Pakistani state was sheltering a UN designated terrorist group...

YOU or your country have ZERO evidence of Indian nationals or the state of India being involved in terrorism towards Pakistan..if you do, please present to the same to the UN.

 

[Areesh]

A charity organisation, which designated as terrorist organisation by every country in the world.

You can go to post no 50 where I have debunked your theory ..he talks about using the people who attacks us.

Nowhere has he explicitly supported terrorist or any particular terrorist organisation by any name!!

Just like your minister openly says to support and use terrorists against its neighbors. And you didn't debunk anything. The fact that you keep asking show me this and show me that proves that you didn't debunk anything. And in any case post number 50 on this thread is my post not yours. This is post 50

And since your minister is a terrorist sympathizer, I again repeat my question. What should we call your country in such a situation when it is under the rule of terrorist sympathizers?

 

[Peshwa]

the indians here are as confused as the journalists in the video I posted above

I suggest Pakistanis watch it as well. It's not available on Daily Motion. I've been using VPN+TOR browser to access YouTube it's not quick but it works.



did you watch the video at least?

you indians should remember this video the next time you claim the world has evidence against him or that there's a "bounty" on his head

The question is, did YOU watch the video?
Nowhere does it refute JUD being a terrorist org...

It only talks about the Justice for Peace initiative wrt. HS...NOT JUD!

We have been talking about JUD from the get go....

You're going on a tangent here...likes of which weren't even in the scope of discussion..

I suggest you be more careful in reading my posts.

 

[TankMan]

The video states evidence against HS...NOT JUD!! Do you see the difference?

HS is the leader of JuD. Evidence against JuD would be evidence against him and vice-versa.

Pakistanis have been involved in terrorism against India.

Pakistanis, not the state itself.

So until now, the Pakistani state was sheltering a UN designated terrorist group...

The UN designation was baseless and, officially, not binding.

We provided evidence of JUD involved in terrorism

At 1:20 in that video one of the journalists raised this issue but the State Dept. answered that the 'intelligence' and 'information' was not usable in a court of law.

 

[airmarshal]

Hafiz Saeed tickles India real bad in their as*.

This ban wont work. JuD does amazing charity work. They were assisting people with food, shelter and free medicare in recent floods when govt was totally absent.

Talking about Kashmir and liberating it from Indian occupation is not terrorism. Its a status quo that India wants on Kashmir and is being assisted by Americans. This is not going to last. Without Kashmir issue resolved, none of issues in the region will be resolved.

As for Mumbai. Most Pakistanis believe it was a drama. Its time Pakistan govt says it so.

 

[ares]

Just like your minister. And you didn't debunk anything. The fact that you keep asking show me this and show me that proves that you didn't debunk anything. And in any case post number 50 on this thread is my post not yours.

And since your minister is a terrorist sympathizer, I again repeat my question. What should we call your country in such a situation when it is under the rule of terrorist sympathizers?

He never said those words and the fact you are inability to show me the quote (despite being asked repeatedly) "where he supports the use of terrorists against neighbors. "Proves that you have nothing to show, but your own hypothesis on what he might have meant.

Since your question is predicated on you being able to prove your initial hypothesis(which you are not able to)..hence the question is invalid.

 

[airmarshal]

Pakistanis...ie. groups or people within your country..

Pakistanis have not been involved in terrorism in India. Ajmal Kasaab was not a Pakistani. The identity could be but not that person who was hanged as Kasaab.

Indians have been involved in terrorism. There had been couple of Indian RAW agents held in Pakistan jails. One of them was released and he admitted being a RAW agent.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The question is, did YOU watch the video?

i'm the one who shared the bloody video, obviously i watched it

Nowhere does it refute JUD being a terrorist org...

well actually it kind of does, since in his capacity he's speaking on behalf of the Govt. of the U.S. and he clearly stated that there is no evidence that can lead to his prosecution.....now as far as india is concerned and leaving alone the U.S. - india also has no evidence either. All they can grieve about are that he makes anti-india or pro-Kashmiri remarks and speeches. In Pakistan (where he is located) - anti-indian or pro-Kashmiri speeches are not against the law. The same way it's not against the law when RSS/BJP goons make incendiary speeches against Pakistan.

Did any members of the JuD even own up to the Bomb Bay attacks? Terrorist organizations will always gladly take responsibility for their acts (like what ISIS or boko haram would do). Whereas the head of the JuD himself condemned the attack and has vehemently denied any responsibility of him or his organization. This he stated in a BBC interview - need the link to that as well?

It only talks about the Justice for Peace initiative wrt. HS...NOT JUD!

i brought up the HS issue as a side-point. I'm not talking about JuD. And I clearly suggested that, which is why i brought up the old issue of so-called "bounty" as indians and their media (and even some careless US publications which failed to make the distinction) failed to do

I suggest you be more careful in reading my posts.

I was JUST going to suggest the same for you, actually.

 

[ares]

Pakistanis have not been involved in terrorism in India. Ajmal Kasaab was not a Pakistani. The identity could be but not that person who was hanged as Kasaab.

Indians have been involved in terrorism. There had been couple of Indian RAW agents held in Pakistan jails. One of them was released and he admitted being a RAW agent.

You should lay off that hash for some time.

"Pakistan, which during the past has been known for changing its stance, finally admitted on Wednesday that Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist captured during the Mumbai carnage, was indeed a Pakistani national but was unsure whether it would provide him consular access, as he has asked for to defend himself. Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist arrested in the November 26 Mumbai terror attacks, is a Pakistani national, Pakistan's National Security Advisor (NSA) Mahmud Ali Durrani confirmed to a TV Channel on Wednesday."

Captured Mumbai Terrorist Is Pakistani, Admits Government | GroundReport


"
It has been confirmed that Ajmal Kasab is a Pakistani national following preliminary investigations by national security agencies, said Pakistani Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Sadiq. "

Kasab is our citizen, admits Pakistan

 

[TankMan]

@Abu Zolfiqar
Video is now up on Dailymotion, for Pakistanis' convenience

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@Abu Zolfiqar
Video is now up on Dailymotion, for Pakistanis' convenience

there we go....

thanks buddy

 

[Peshwa]

HS is the leader of JuD. Evidence against JuD would be evidence against him and vice-versa.

Well then there you have it...
The UN designated JUD a terrorist org. so by your own admission, the UN also considers HS a terrorist..whether he be involved in hate speeches only or not...

But in my mind, yes I agree with you...both should be interchangeable, him being the leader of the org...but apparently not so..

Pakistanis, not the state itself.

When did I suggest otherwise? I have been very careful in choosing my words..

The UN designation was baseless and, officially, not binding.

On what basis was it baseless? Can you expand on it?

Also, as I Pakistani, I would expect you to show the same judgement when talking about the non binding resolution on Kashmiri plebiscite...although off topic, it is imp to point out the hypocrisy..

At 1:20 in that video one of the journalists raised this issue but the State Dept. answered that the 'intelligence' and 'information' was not usable in a court of law.

Against HS...
I do not believe that HS personal assets can be frozen because of him being part of JUD..
The evidence required is to implicate him...the organization was already deemed terrorist.