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‘Jinnah’s Pakistan’ has no room for Hindus

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1 Beggar 2 Servant (Famiglio) 3 Craftsman (Artigiano) 4 Merchant (Mercante) - presumably living mostly off income as a landlord 5 Gentleman (gentiluomo) 6 Knight (cavaliere) 7 Doge (doge)- i.e. a local ruler 8 King (Re) 9 Emperor (Imperatore) 10 Pope (Papa
 
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you are having problem with every post of mine !!

Nothing personal, just that the content is amateurish. I understand you are super-excited about the joining the forum and have great intentions at heart. But thread a little bit carefully, and do not get drawn into off-topic discussion.

The very battles you are fighting are fought and every one lost their time.
 
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if your referring to me i can post what i want and it is not to do point scoring but to highlight a issue

Yeah okay :lol:

Why don't you highlight the issues in india? Oh wait india is a superpower and the most advanced country in the world and has no issues like religious/ethnic tensions, poverty, insurgency :disagree:

Almost 90-95% of your threads are based on negative aspects of Pakistan, theres something definitely wrong here
 
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cast system has almost died in major cities (except for reservation system) . still it is practiced in small towns and villages but to not that extend as it was being practiced earlier !! we realy dont know what caste the other person has in our organisation nor do we bother to ask !!

well you may find exceptions but the mentality at general level is very much prevalent as a result if lack of strict implementation of laws

here is a recent study by watson institute on private sector of India and cast based dissemination


Research Details Caste Discrimination in Indian Private Sector
Related Research

Context


Katherine S. Newman

February 28, 2011

Discrimination on the basis of caste endures in the formal labor market of contemporary India, according to Paul Attewell of the City University of New York Graduate Center and Katherine S. Newman of the Johns Hopkins University Department of Sociology.

Speaking at the Institute this month, Attewell and Newman outlined three of four discrimination studies collaboratively undertaken by Princeton University and the Indian Institute of Dalit Studies: a field experiment based in employer-employee correspondence, a study focusing on employer attitudes toward caste, and a prospective cohort study of lower-caste university graduates in elite institutions.

The origin of the overarching project, Attewell said, lies in the recent debate in Indian English-language press over extending the reservation system currently operating in India into the country’s private sector. The Indian reservation system allots a percentage of public sector jobs and places in higher educational institutions to minority applicants, including those of religious minorities and Dalits, a group traditionally regarded to be of low caste. Representatives of the private sector expressed overwhelming opposition to the possibility of extending reservation, citing an ostensible lack of evidence of discrimination against Dalits in the modern private sector, Attewell said.

In order to correct the “dearth of research [speaking] to these issues,” the project employed a series of empirical techniques developed by social scientists in the US to investigate “enduring discrimination against African Americans,” Attewell said. The studies aimed to determine whether modern inequalities are “based on caste or community leftovers from the past,” whether these inequalities are “reflections of low education or working in an economically ‘backward’ sector,” and whether discrimination continues to take place “even in the most modern, dynamic sectors of the Indian economy.”

The field experiment focused on the correspondence between job applicants and prospective employers in the modern private sector, including both Indian and multinational corporations. Only first-stage discrimination was taken into account: whether or not applicants received an interview invitation.

Researchers submitted multiple sets of fabricated resumes by mail in response to job advertisements aimed at recent university graduates. All fictitious candidates shared strong credentials and differed only in names, which were “recognizably affiliated by caste or religion,” Attewell said. Three groups of candidates were set up: those with names associated with a high caste, those with typically Dalit names, and those with typically Muslim names.

Researchers found a clear statistical pattern, according to Attewell. Applicants with names associated with a low-caste background faced odds of a positive outcome only 0.67 as large as those for an application with a typically high-caste name. Muslim applicants were at an even greater disadvantage, with odds of a positive outcome only 0.33 as large as those for a high-caste name applicant. These findings clearly imply that discrimination against applicants based on name association occurs even in the very first stage of the job search. “Social exclusion is not a residue of the past; it is alive and well even in modern, high-tech India,” Attewell said.

Newman outlined the second, employer perspective study, which challenged the public assumption that overt caste discrimination is an anachronism in the Indian modern sector. Researchers interviewed a series of Indian employers about their companies’ recruitment procedures, specifically whether the organization followed a regional recruitment pattern and whether caste was significant in making hiring decisions.

The results of the study spoke to a prevailing “sense that [one] can characterize individuals by virtue of [the] group characteristics produced in [their native] regional settings,” Newman said. Indian employers were found to operate on a “powerful set of regional stereotypes,” with the belief that corporate behavior can be predicted based on a prospective employee’s family background, regardless of the individual’s higher education. The majority of interviewed employers rejected the legitimacy of the reservation policy overall, Newman said, regarding it as an unnecessary con encouraging caste-ism.

While the study is not statistically representative, it is nevertheless illustrative of the dominant patterns of thought in the recruiting process, according to Newman. The tradition of insider hiring in Indian companies, paired with an emphasis on credentials, worldliness, sophistication, and international exposure, intensifies the implications of choosing applicants based on their personal background and the likelihood of employers bypassing Dalit applicants.

Newman went on to describe the third study, looking at the role of caste in post-university employment. “A group of urban, educationally [similar] university students from different caste backgrounds [were compared] in terms of job expectations, search methods, and the role of their personal social networks in their actual placements.” Some key findings of the study include significantly lower expectations for monthly salary and job opportunity on the part of lower-caste students. “The majority of Dalits didn’t even apply to the private sector because they expected a wall of discrimination,” Newman said. Dalit students also tended to have a much smaller network of family and friends to whom they could turn for help in finding a job.

These studies emphasized the process of discrimination in the upper reaches of Indian employment, Newman said, and do not touch upon the situation in the rural areas. The significance of these findings nonetheless affects a large portion of the contemporary Indian population. Corporate consciousness with regard to persistent caste-based discrimination must be raised to level the playing field, Newman said.

The talk was part of the Joint Seminar on South Asian Politics.

By Watson Institute Student Rapporteur Anna Andreeva ‘12
 
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"Out of compassion for them, I, residing in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance." (10.11)


nothing in Gita about discrimination, the Caste/Class is man made idea
 
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I am the same to all beings, and my love is ever the same; but those who worship me with devotion, they are in me and I am in them. For if even one who does evil were to worship me with all his soul, he must be considered righteous, because of his righteous will. He will soon become pure and reach everlasting peace. For be aware, Arjuna, that he who loves me shall not perish. (9:29-31)
 
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Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz so in France they stop own people from going to Church on basis of class?? like in India where Dalits are barred. do French practice untouchability like you in India pratice against low cast Hindus?

Social class is altogether one thing and division of human on basis of cast denying their basic rights is altogether another.

there is NO religious based division of Human in France unlike India so stop defending an inhuman thing



Read the Gita and learn yourself I rather go to God's law direct than man made idea of caste or class
 
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plz all u ppl here stop discussing abt caste system. caste system was started by some fools & all other fool ppl followed it for centuries. but from last century or so it is slowly but effectively diminishing.
 
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plz all u ppl here stop discussing abt caste system. caste system was started by some fools & all other fool ppl followed it for centuries. but from last century or so it is slowly but effectively diminishing.

Who were these fools?????????????
 
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mate no offence but it is same for sikhs in india...despite repeated promises of last several years the government in india has not implemented Anand Marraige Act for sikhs...even worse the british had the same act for sikhs during the rule,,this was implemented in somewhere 1900's...sikhs are not even recognized by our own country...
its a hard truth but the governement in india and pakistan is of majority of religion or votes...

In India all you need are a couple of marriage photographs, and a two witnesses of the marriage. That testimony becomes the certificate in itself. No offense indeed!
 
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There was one seer manu, who wrote manusmriti and proposed the idea that society will be divided in 4 sections.

1. One who defends from external threats and maintain law n order. kshatriya

2. one who do all religious cermeonies. brahmins

3. who takes care of the business, vaisya

4.who serves the society. shudra

over the years the idea of division went wrong and now we all curse manu.

Now jana ji focus on topic
 
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this is a very sensationalist headline, and perhaps the motive of opening such a thread (by an indian especially, whose country has seen communal riots like no other) was to take a cheap shot at Pakistan

there is a certain segment of society that tends to be intolerant toward minority groups --like Hindu or Christian or even certain Muslim sects. They are fanatics, however it has little bearing or relevance if you look at Pakistan on the whole

actually I am impressed by Pakistani hindus who opted to remain in Pakistan....a very patriotic move on their part, considering many hindus fled post partition. State should ensure that they receive equal rights and are protected.

it's also funny when the indians claim that ''liberals'' or ''secularists'' are the only tolerant people in Pakistan. This is far from the truth. Again, there are intolerant people in the country however there are religious people who are also free-thinkers who do not condone violence of any kind --sectarian or communal.

it's important that we take lessons from massacres that have taken place in the neighbour country --against Christians Sikhs and Muslims (even low caste hindus). Because such events are not good for the social fabric of the society.

we should place more emphasis on Jinnah's vision for Pakistan....that will require an effective, nationalist, un-adulterated govt. that stands by his vision and ideals rather than standing by personal gains and not caring about anything else
 
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Who were these fools?????????????

Jana ji, aapko sab pata hai fir bhi you are egging it on?

If not, then in the most brief manner this is all I can tell you :-

The caste system was implemented to help organize the society.

When one profession began getting greater benefits/reputation over the other, the system became hereditary with the monopolistic practices of the upper castes (happened no less than 800 years after it was first formulated).

However, the essential philosophy "that no person is born into a caste" was carried on throughout the ages, and so India got rulers from different castes and even revered saints that were born into lower castes, and even the first emperor of India was from a lower caste - Nanda; Second emperor Chandragupta was not even a Hindu, rather a Jain, and the third emperor Asoka was a Buddhist.

This caste system got exaggerated in the later Mughar era, when the Muslims rulers still respected the Brahmins and Rajputs but not the other castes.

Then came the British that kept all the traditions intact that favored them, and abolished those that they viewed as hindrances.

When India got Independence, architect of the constitution was from a lower caste. Since independence, any sort of casteism has been considered illegal and the practice made punishable with RI.


I am very sure Jana ji, you must have read similar texts in this forum quite a few times before. I just hope you won't be curious about the castes anymore.
 
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