JF17 BLK4-----Major Upgrade & Replacement For F16's

[ACE OF THE AIR]

bro. not in your post. i tagged in @Thunder.Storm in my post for the answer he asked for.
but why i tagged him in reply to your post.? well, he asked a question and you answered that. that's why i tagged him in the reply to your post . "so that he can get his answer you know



because i really respect that guy in your Dp. studied him A-lot. and love him for many reasons. that's the reason.

but don't worry. your Dp is abusive to me doesn't mean you have to change it. Again , "we are democracy" .

No problem bro...

 

[Khafee]

ASSLAM O ALEKUM
I almost told 7-8 times THAT I HAD GOT PERMISSION FIRST AND THEN I TOLD THAT ALL
but now anyways forget it all as I am not gonna give any sort of Info here even if I am allowed to do so
ALLAH HAFIZ

As Salam Alikum,

Bro, please don't get offended. Irfan Sahab is just doing his job. With the number of kids mucking about on this forum it can get quite tiresome, and irritating for the mods, so please, a little bit of rationale thinking would help.

I hope you will be a mature, productive member, and will contribute positively to this forum.

Best Regards

 

[RealNapster]

I also respect him and he is one of my favorite, that's why i set his pic on my dp. every one make their dp some kind of animal,fighter jets so i thought why not set my favorite Muslim warier. i couldn't find better pic than this one.

Appreciated.

 

[Syed_Adeel]

This is a basic outline of future needs, Dont you think that PAF strategy makers are much more smarter than any one else in PDF ?

 

[MastanKhan]

If we are going to re-engineer JF-17 to a larger air-frame, more powerful engine then what benefits it will offer over lets say a latest J-10C Variant with customized subsystems according to PAF needs?

Hi,

That is an important question---then one may be led to ask---what has stopped the paf from buying the J10's----.

All the world knows that there maybe sanctions on pakistan one more time---or the U S may simply put hurdles in the sale of the F16----.

And the new hurdle is that the senators would okay the sale but refuse to release the money---.

So----yes---why did the paf not decide 3 years ago to get this aircraft---learn to operate it and modify it according to their needs.

The only way you can get these answers is to put the different air chiefs and seniors officials on THE HOT SEAT in the parliament and on the TV and someone with knowledge needs to GRIIL them on the issue.

There needs to be some fire lit under their feet.

When the PAF says that we were waiting for the choice of MMRCA to be finalized to make our decision----my question is FOR WHAT PURPOSE---you are only going to get what you are going to get---there are no miracles happening---so why not take advantage of the time that you have been given and imporve on the J10.

Now this option for the JF17 that I mention is for that very reason that the paf has not picked up the J10C---. Seems like they don't like the engineering concept behind the aircraft.

For that reason---then a change needs to be made to the JF17. The current aircraft is a successful example and to modify it to a slightly larger scale and wheel modification will not cost a lot.

If the whole JF17 program cost 400 mil dollars---this modification would cost in the range of less than 50 mil dollars and less than a year---so the overall cost will be miniscule when absorbed by 150-200 fighter aircraft.

This is a basic outline of future needs, Dont you think that PAF strategy makers are much more smarter than any one else in PDF ?

Hi,

Uptill now they have shown to be one of the most fckd up organization of our military---.

 

[Syed_Adeel]

Hi,

Uptill now they have shown to be one of the most fckd up organization of our military---.

Can you please explain case wise that how they have been so F******ed up organisation ?
As i know they tried their best to achieve the minimum deterrance despite of financial scarcity and sanctions.

 

[Zain Malik]

This is a basic outline of future needs, Dont you think that PAF strategy makers are much more smarter than any one else in PDF ?

Smarter........????? Well this word don't suit on them for a past few years our strategy makers have taken some foolish decisions........Don't they......??????

 

[MystryMan]

Hi,

That is an important question---then one may be led to ask---what has stopped the paf from buying the J10's----.

All the world knows that there maybe sanctions on pakistan one more time---or the U S may simply put hurdles in the sale of the F16----.

And the new hurdle is that the senators would okay the sale but refuse to release the money---.

So----yes---why did the paf not decide 3 years ago to get this aircraft---learn to operate it and modify it according to their needs.

The only way you can get these answers is to put the different air chiefs and seniors officials on THE HOT SEAT in the parliament and on the TV and someone with knowledge needs to GRIIL them on the issue.

There needs to be some fire lit under their feet.

When the PAF says that we were waiting for the choice of MMRCA to be finalized to make our decision----my question is FOR WHAT PURPOSE---you are only going to get what you are going to get---there are no miracles happening---so why not take advantage of the time that you have been given and imporve on the J10.

Now this option for the JF17 that I mention is for that very reason that the paf has not picked up the J10C---. Seems like they don't like the engineering concept behind the aircraft.

For that reason---then a change needs to be made to the JF17. The current aircraft is a successful example and to modify it to a slightly larger scale and wheel modification will not cost a lot.

If the whole JF17 program cost 400 mil dollars---this modification would cost in the range of less than 50 mil dollars and less than a year---so the overall cost will be miniscule when absorbed by 150-200 fighter aircraft.



Hi,

Uptill now they have shown to be one of the most fckd up organization of our military---.

Thanks for clarifying Sir.
So what I understand is that you are proposing a medium weight class 4.5th Gen fighter based on design concepts borrowed from JF-17 (like LERX, DSI etc) but with enlarged air-frame and more powerful engine.
This aircraft can be used to replace the ROSE Mirages initially and its later versions (more advanced blocks) for replacing the F-16s after 2020.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Bossman
you are on watch now
repeat in your mind that

• you wont insult other people for their age, race or religion
• refrain from low quality posts
• log off from forum if you cant follow first two rules

for now you have escaped infractions with hope that you will heed the advice.
there are no excuses to your behaviour and don't push it.

thank in advance for your compliance and understanding

 

[zebra7]

Hi,

That is an important question---then one may be led to ask---what has stopped the paf from buying the J10's----.

All the world knows that there maybe sanctions on pakistan one more time---or the U S may simply put hurdles in the sale of the F16----.

And the new hurdle is that the senators would okay the sale but refuse to release the money---.

So----yes---why did the paf not decide 3 years ago to get this aircraft---learn to operate it and modify it according to their needs.

The only way you can get these answers is to put the different air chiefs and seniors officials on THE HOT SEAT in the parliament and on the TV and someone with knowledge needs to GRIIL them on the issue.

There needs to be some fire lit under their feet.

When the PAF says that we were waiting for the choice of MMRCA to be finalized to make our decision----my question is FOR WHAT PURPOSE---you are only going to get what you are going to get---there are no miracles happening---so why not take advantage of the time that you have been given and imporve on the J10.

Now this option for the JF17 that I mention is for that very reason that the paf has not picked up the J10C---. Seems like they don't like the engineering concept behind the aircraft.

For that reason---then a change needs to be made to the JF17. The current aircraft is a successful example and to modify it to a slightly larger scale and wheel modification will not cost a lot.

If the whole JF17 program cost 400 mil dollars---this modification would cost in the range of less than 50 mil dollars and less than a year---so the overall cost will be miniscule when absorbed by 150-200 fighter aircraft.



Hi,

Uptill now they have shown to be one of the most fckd up organization of our military---.

Mastan Bhai, if your concept what ever I was able to understand is

1. Twin Engine of existing R93 engine to support bigger structure.
2. Single Engine of superior thrust than the existing engine

Then you have to actually create the new fighter plane from the ground, then why are you quoting JF-17 block 4, why now some other fighter plane -- Which is already there called J-10, which would

1. Save the time for the development. (Roufly 20 years needed)
2. Save the money invested in R&D (Billions)

So, why not

1. Modify J-10 with the western avionics.
2. Make deal with Russia, China for the production of the modified fighter plane in Pakistan and MRO facilities of the Russian AL-31 Engine in Pakistan, and customised the indigenous weapons for it for PAF requirement.

 

[Lucky Breeze]

 

[Syed Hussain]

But if PAF had to go for any of this, which will mean creating a fighter not just meant to take the role of a "filler" but a potent air asset, than it will be needing to put considerable amount of time, money and effort into it and that would again leave us with the question that why not then PAF went for FC-20 instead to begin with? as it has almost every "trait" you mentioned or could have been easily tailored to our needs further by investing just half of the money we paid as the design and development fee for the JFT. And the desired product would have been available to be inducted in the same time frame when we started inducting block2 of JFT. While the proposition for JFT may take at least 4 to 5 more years in realization.
And also let's not forget that we don't have the capacity to add any design modifications to JFT & it will be done by China solely and I am not sure if they would like to make considerable alterations to a platform conceived as an export product with a definite role.
Instead why not revive the dead of Counter-MRCA? There is nothing bad about having two medium class fighters and specially when they are "lightly medium" single engine ones.

If the whole JF17 program cost 400 mil dollars---this modification would cost in the range of less than 50 mil dollars and less than a year---so the overall cost will be miniscule when absorbed by 150-200 fighter aircraft.

The design & development fee by Pak was 500 million and 500 million in early 2000's is now equal to almost 1 to 1.5 billion because of the difference in currency rates. So now you will be needing to add that old figure of "500" million for the redesigning process and that can also be the case if China is reluctant to make the alterations thus making it difficult.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Bhai, if your concept what ever I was able to understand is

1. Twin Engine of existing R93 engine to support bigger structure.
2. Single Engine of superior thrust than the existing engine

Then you have to actually create the new fighter plane from the ground, then why are you quoting JF-17 block 4, why now some other fighter plane -- Which is already there called J-10, which would

1. Save the time for the development. (Roufly 20 years needed)
2. Save the money invested in R&D (Billions)

So, why not

1. Modify J-10 with the western avionics.
2. Make deal with Russia, China for the production of the modified fighter plane in Pakistan and MRO facilities of the Russian AL-31 Engine in Pakistan, and customised the indigenous weapons for it for PAF requirement.

Hi,

I would have loved to have had the J10B in paf colors 4 years ago---it would have given the paf enough time to adjust the aircraft to their needs.

I think they GAMBLED---and started playing CUTESY with the americans---.

But as they have not inducted the J10---then what other option is there for a single engine---.

My option for a BLK4 JF 17 is not a new aircraft---it is in the same parameters---similar structure and lsight bit larger---Gripen has done it---they are not calling it a new aircraft--the south africans did it with the Mirage to Cheetah---they did not call it new aircraft---enough though the mirage was a major modification---.

I don't see any reason why this aircraft cannot be modified around 50 million dollars---.

 

[war&peace]

It is like very late wake up. We have seen it many times and realised at much younger age than SOME (there are a lot of great planners who for example planned JF-17 or strategic delivery system aka missile system) of the so-called planners with coconuts heads always pushing for US/Western origin arms( perhaps for some vested interests and bribes i.e. our bachas should study in USA/England and we have to dwell in USA after retirement e.g. Faseeh Bukhari, Aslam Baig). There were sanctions in the past and there will be sanctions in the future...only an idiot would think otherwise.....but do the coconut heads learn...no..of course not...otherwise there will be no reason to call them coconut heads. We need to develop our own system in parallel to shifting from US to Russia and China, for direct purchase, co-developments/joint-ventures and spare part supplies...that will not only increase our independence but also hand Pakistan a strong card for negotiating defence deals with west (if still needed).
However, JF-17 can be developed to a certain point and we need to start working on entirely different airframes (at least two more) with well defined roles and taking into account the latest technological developments and also seeing 30-40 years ahead in future.

Hi,

I would---but their emails don't work.

You mean they are living in pre-email or pre-internet age

 

[MastanKhan]

I



You mean they are living in pre-email or pre-internet age

Hi,

Yeah--the emails they have listed----come back as cannot be delivered--and I am copying and pasting the address from the ispr web site---.

Maybe no access from outside of pakistan---I do not know.