Jf17 and Mig 35 remain the only options being evaluated for increasing interest: Argentine air force

[Moon]

They will swoop in to save them but what you are asking for is not saving them. the UK has 0 leverage on US.

Doubt they'd let their oldest allies roll over and die, that alone is the biggest leverage the UK has.

 

[Microsoft]

Doubt they'd let their oldest allies roll over and die, that alone is the biggest leverage the UK has.

Letting them die and selling some weapons to UK adversary are two different things.

 

[ssethii]

That's because we Pakistanis aren't playing up to our level.

There are no shortage of peak-IK-type personalities across business, engineering, medicine, media, etc. But their talents and efforts are benefitting the US, UK, and UAE, not Pakistan.

Why?

Because we have shameless and inept folks ruling us. It's as simple as that.

The rulers might be a reflection of the people, but the first thing other folks see are the rulers.

Give us Pakistanis a chance, and we'll do alright.

It's not just the rulers, the society as a whole is rotten from the inside with no moral standing.

 

[Marker]

It's not just the rulers, the society as a whole is rotten from the inside with no moral standing.

And who makes the society - you and me!!!!!

If we Pakistanis really wants to have a strong and prosperous Pakistan, then we have to amend ourselves. Merely talking and blaming others or society as a whole will not steer the country's direction to right course of success.

Every Pakistani has to become honest to himself or herself first, only then we will be able to excel in whatever we want to achieve. Our achievements will ensure country's success.

An honest Pakistani will have courage to stand against corruption, injustice and incompetence. He or she will be able to dare to say "absolutely not" to the corrupt officials, politicians and judges. This collective stand will change the Pakistani society and the rulers. But still all this will start from a point, that point is you or me.

CAN WE DARE TO BE HONEST TO OURSELVES?

 

[Keysersoze]

Of course things aren't black and white, US had its reasons to join WW1, completely in its self interests. But the result was it saving UK. Same in WW2, same in Cold War, same in giving assistance during Falklands.

The US fought really hard to head off the war and only backed the UK at the last minute when Argentina refused to back down. (The Junta was teetering on collapse and the war was the last opportunity for them to regain popularity through a military victory) The sale of aircraft to Argentina would not jeopardise US/UK relations the way a lot of people on here think.

 

[ssethii]

And who makes the society - you and me!!!!!

If we Pakistanis really wants to have a strong and prosperous Pakistan, then we have to amend ourselves. Merely talking and blaming others or society as a whole will not steer the country's direction to right course of success.

Every Pakistani has to become honest to himself or herself first, only then we will be able to excel in whatever we want to achieve. Our achievements will ensure country's success.

An honest Pakistani will have courage to stand against corruption, injustice and incompetence. He or she will be able to dare to say "absolutely not" to the corrupt officials, politicians and judges. This collective stand will change the Pakistani society and the rulers. But still all this will start from a point, that point is you or me.

CAN WE DARE TO BE HONEST TO OURSELVES?

Unfortunately, those who have the saddles and control of this country are not honest hard-working people like you and me.

 

[Marker]

Unfortunately, those who have the saddles and control of this country are not honest hard-working people like you and me.

At least I am unable to dare myself to stand against injustice, unfairness, corruption and incompetency. Zindagi araam se guzar rahi hae to panga kun lein. This is the norm we all follow. Till the time we do not change this mind set we will continue to do the same thing - blaming others. One has to change this mind set by showing and leading others to stand against the injustice, corruption and incompetency.

The problem is within us - individual Pakistanis. Knowingly either we cast vote in favour of a corrupt and incompetent politician or do not cast the vote altogether. None of us are true to ourselves, then we expect others to do the right thing.

More than 90% of Pakistanis blame others for their failures. If these individuals start being true, honest to themselves, be able to stand for justice, competence and fairness, none of these individuals will be failures in their next ventures. In the end, Pakistan will become one of world's leading country.

 

[Keysersoze]

Yeah good luck getting 12 F-16s, their training, spares, upgrades, armament and the whole lobbying and whatnot under $600 Million.
Yes you are right, politics will play a role, but then it can go both way as well. After all, Argentinian government has to sell their narrative to the people as well. And regardless of where the Chilean and Argentinian rivalry is, Falkland for them is a raw nerve.
And if Chinese are desperate to make space in South America, they'll definitely counter the American bid through subsides or more flexible funding options.

They wouldn't be buying new airframes. they would be getting EDA and paying for Upgrade packs. roughly 24 million per aircraft. So that would be 480 million for 20 aircraft. leaving 180 million (Based on the 660 million dollar request) for weapons and ancillaries. The A4AR had a similar avionics set up to the F16 so there wouldn't be as big a training problem as you would think.

 

[ProudPak]

Why? You think Chinese are stupid? Don’t you think they thought about engine when they offered FC-1/JF-17 block 3 to Argentina?
These are planes are in different class, JF-17 is light weight single engine while Mig-35 is medium weight dual engine. Also maintenance and operational cost will be different, JF-17 will be much cheaper compare to Mig-35.
Russia is in no position to block Chinese offer to Argentina. Russia and China will be in the same block to counter Western group. In next 10 years, Russia will need China more than India.

I think the engine export licences are there. Remember we used to buy the engines from the chines who purchased them from Russian with severe Indian lobbying. So I don't think Russia will block the deal as money is money

 

[Moon]

Letting them die and selling some weapons to UK adversary are two different things.

Well they did sell them F-4AR, so I doubt they'd care.

The US fought really hard to head off the war and only backed the UK at the last minute when Argentina refused to back down. (The Junta was teetering on collapse and the war was the last opportunity for them to regain popularity through a military victory) The sale of aircraft to Argentina would not jeopardise US/UK relations the way a lot of people on here think.

True, the A-4AR is testament to that.

They wouldn't be buying new airframes. they would be getting EDA and paying for Upgrade packs. roughly 24 million per aircraft. So that would be 480 million for 20 aircraft. leaving 180 million (Based on the 660 million dollar request) for weapons and ancillaries. The A4AR had a similar avionics set up to the F16 so there wouldn't be as big a training problem as you would think.

Both have vastly different flight characteristics, not to mention training the ground crew. US training is inherently expensive.

 

[khanasifm]

They wouldn't be buying new airframes. they would be getting EDA and paying for Upgrade packs. roughly 24 million per aircraft. So that would be 480 million for 20 aircraft. leaving 180 million (Based on the 660 million dollar request) for weapons and ancillaries. The A4AR had a similar avionics set up to the F16 so there wouldn't be as big a training problem as you would think.

how do you now what they would should could …


are you advisor to Argentinan GOVT and Airforce

 

[GriffinsRule]

The Chileans requested the C7 AMRAAM in 2009 and were approved.

Chilean “Pampa Tigers” Perform Rare Elephant Walk With Ten F-16s Carrying (Inert) Air-to-Air Missiles | taktik(z) GDI (Government Defense Infrastructure)

staging.taktikz.com

Not just that, they are already equipped with them and can be seen in the image here.

 

[Incog_nito]

I guess with Chinese Economic / Monetary assistance, they can easily get 36~54 JF-17A/B Block-IIIs along with some K-8 Basic / Intermediate Trainers.

 

[Genghis khan1]

And who makes the society - you and me!!!!!

If we Pakistanis really wants to have a strong and prosperous Pakistan, then we have to amend ourselves. Merely talking and blaming others or society as a whole will not steer the country's direction to right course of success.

Every Pakistani has to become honest to himself or herself first, only then we will be able to excel in whatever we want to achieve. Our achievements will ensure country's success.

An honest Pakistani will have courage to stand against corruption, injustice and incompetence. He or she will be able to dare to say "absolutely not" to the corrupt officials, politicians and judges. This collective stand will change the Pakistani society and the rulers. But still all this will start from a point, that point is you or me.

CAN WE DARE TO BE HONEST TO OURSELVES?

We don’t live in a perfect society. There is no such thing as honest society. In the absence of accountability, Humans are likely to be dishonesty when tempted by opportunity. There is a reason God prescribed process of accountability and punishment.

Pakistanis issue isn’t dishonest, but lack of accountability.
When person A observer person B is getting away with short cut or dishonesty, he will be tempted to do the same thing. But when observe C and D are also getting away with the same crime. He is likely to do it and set a precedent for other to do it.

When society as a whole is corrupt it’s very hard for honest person to survive.

 

[ssethii]

At least I am unable to dare myself to stand against injustice, unfairness, corruption and incompetency. Zindagi araam se guzar rahi hae to panga kun lein. This is the norm we all follow. Till the time we do not change this mind set we will continue to do the same thing - blaming others. One has to change this mind set by showing and leading others to stand against the injustice, corruption and incompetency.

The problem is within us - individual Pakistanis. Knowingly either we cast vote in favour of a corrupt and incompetent politician or do not cast the vote altogether. None of us are true to ourselves, then we expect others to do the right thing.

More than 90% of Pakistanis blame others for their failures. If these individuals start being true, honest to themselves, be able to stand for justice, competence and fairness, none of these individuals will be failures in their next ventures. In the end, Pakistan will become one of world's leading country.

The more you try to analyze and go in-depth the more you realize the whole system is totally corrupt and rotten to its core and any fix you will try will only have cosmetic effects. Anyways, this thread is about the export potential of jf-17 so let's just agree to disagree and leave this discussion for some other thread.