JF-17's various initial design phases & design resemblances

[Munir]

People often write about what is more agile... That is depending on FBW. The pilot asks the plane to do certain move and then the FBW does it. But... It is restricted till certain move. As far as i know Belgians have their F16 allowed to go beyond 10+ but the Dutch doe only 9. It is related to maintenance. And it can be altered during wartime. So surely you can move JF17 to go 11+ but would you pay the maintenance bill? We can be sure that it will do just fine during wartime. And it is very well suited for preserving kinetic energy. That my friends is more important then anything else at the moment. In that it exceeds Gripen (delta is horrible in doing that) but also the F16.

 

[Manticore]

According European commentator in Dubai Air show 2013, I hear him saying "PAF said they don't need a two seat version of JF17.......".

lets see what happens - perhaps the production of a dual seater will be driven by future customers

 

[Munir]

According European commentator in Dubai Air show 2013, I hear him saying "PAF said they don't need a two seat version of JF17.......".
.

It is light weight. Besides training there is no role for dual JF17. It is perfected for A2A and it has optimized interface for the pilot. The ecm or other avionics are fully automated. And if you can fly AFT (advanced flight trainer) you can strap in after a few hours simulator. It is that simple to fly.

 

[Manticore]

Possible but so far I have not seen JF17 doing anything close to F/A 18, like sharp pull up & extreme air maneuvering. You can check the maneuvering of F/A 18 on youtube. I have been watching many videos in the past few days mainly of F22, F/A 18, SU 30 MKI & Eurofighter, they were outstanding in Air maneuvering, but F16 has beaten Eurofighter in dog fight.

How high was the aircraft, how much fuel it had, was it cleared for such maneuvers etc all play a role in what you see in an airshow apart from engine specs

 

[tarrar]

How high was the aircraft, how much fuel it had, was it cleared for such maneuvers etc all play a role in what you see in an airshow apart from engine specs

Is JF17 engine Thrust vector? Thrust vector plays a important role in high maneuvering.

 

[Basel]

Is JF17 engine Thrust vector? Thrust vector plays a important role in high maneuvering.

Till now No.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Possible but so far I have not seen JF17 doing anything close to F/A 18, like sharp pull up & extreme air maneuvering. You can check the maneuvering of F/A 18 on youtube. I have been watching many videos in the past few days mainly of F22, F/A 18, SU 30 MKI & Eurofighter, they were outstanding in Air maneuvering, but F16 has beaten Eurofighter in dog fight.

PAF Air Show Videos | Page 7
JF-17 video is in this thread. @Manticore
Great Flight Videos

 

[Munir]

Is JF17 engine Thrust vector? Thrust vector plays a important role in high maneuvering.

It is not for light, medium weight fighter jets...

 

[Donatello]

Is JF17 engine Thrust vector? Thrust vector plays a important role in high maneuvering.

That's debatable, and for a single engine aircraft, more so.

 

[tarrar]

@Munir @Donatello Then the maneuvering of the air craft is surly low, as we have already seen in various Air shows.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

People often write about what is more agile... That is depending on FBW. The pilot asks the plane to do certain move and then the FBW does it. But... It is restricted till certain move. As far as i know Belgians have their F16 allowed to go beyond 10+ but the Dutch doe only 9. It is related to maintenance. And it can be altered during wartime. So surely you can move JF17 to go 11+ but would you pay the maintenance bill? We can be sure that it will do just fine during wartime. And it is very well suited for preserving kinetic energy. That my friends is more important then anything else at the moment. In that it exceeds Gripen (delta is horrible in doing that) but also the F16.

Anything that exceeds 9 or sustained 9 will make the pilot faint is it not?

 

[rockstar08]

@Manticore last pic in post#23 is fake right ?

 

[Manticore]

Thrust vectoring at 400 knots | Page 2
posts moved here

 

[Munir]

Anything that exceeds 9 or sustained 9 will make the pilot faint is it not?

I do not think so. Sustained for how long? Maybe you should look at the fluid pressured EF2000 suit.

 

[khanasifm]

Comaprision


JF17 F7 Mirage III/V
Internal fuel ~3000 liters ~2300-2400 liters ~ 3000 (III) ~3300 (V)
External Load 3600KG-3800KG 1800KG 4000KG
Max Take off Wt. ~27400 lbs. ~20000 lbs ~30000 lbs
Thrust to weight (Clean) ~90% tile ~60-70% 68%
Range Ferry ~3000 ~2000-22000 ~3400 (V)
Combat AA (full Fuel) 1000-1300km ~400-700km (HHH) ~1200km (HHH)
Combat AG (Full Fuel) ~700-1000km ~300KM ~1200km
Fuel Fraction 5140/20000 3900/17000 5500/~23000
Engine Turbofan with HMS Turbojet Turbojet
Weapon Config Multirole Mostly AA Mostly AG
Sea Attack Yes N/a Selective Models
BVR Yes N/A N/A
Full Mutirole Radar Yes Mostly AA Depending on model /No
Night Attach Yes AA Only AA / Some model AG
Guided weapon (AG) Yes Carrier only no pod Selective models
Engine performance 1980/1990 Performance 1960s technology 1960s Technology
MTBO ~1200 hours Every 800 hours ~ 1200-1800 hours
MTBO Engine 600-800 hours Every 300-350 hours ~300 hours
Technology Digital Analog /Some Digital Analog/Some Digital
A/c Availability Per sqn 16/18 aircraft 12-14/18 (peace time) 12/14/18 (Peace time)
Simulators Yes No/Basic No/Basic
AAR Yes No Some
Recon Mission Some? No Some/Old TechAA On station time (AA) ~1:30 minutes 45 minutes -55min ?
External Fuel 3000liters 800+2X500liters (2X1300 +1X1300 liters)
Cost of Operation Low Low-Med Medium
Data Link Yes No No
ECM/ECCM V Advance Basic Basic
Price Fly Away ~$16/18M ~4M USed/New ~6M Used ($1-2 M)
Price with weapon + 1 year Parts/Service
~20/22M ~6-8M -?
Service Life ~4000 hours and more with ext. 2400 hours ~2400 hours or ~3000 with ext.
Life in years 4000/150 hours per year 2400/150 2400/150

JF-17 is being marketed to replace F5 same kind of specs, Mirage, Mirage F1s and F7s/MiG 21/23 so always compare it to theses 1960s A/c and that what Chines /Pak market is focused on.

Comaprision


JF17 F7 Mirage III/V
Internal fuel ~3000 liters ~2300-2400 liters ~ 3000 (III) ~3300 (V)
External Load 3600KG-3800KG 1800KG 4000KG
Max Take off Wt. ~27400 lbs. ~20000 lbs ~30000 lbs
Thrust to weight (Clean) ~90% tile ~60-70% 68%
Range Ferry ~3000 ~2000-22000 ~3400 (V)
Combat AA (full Fuel) 1000-1300km ~400-700km (HHH) ~1200km (HHH)
Combat AG (Full Fuel) ~700-1000km ~300KM ~1200km
Fuel Fraction 5140/20000 3900/17000 5500/~23000
Engine Turbofan with HMS Turbojet Turbojet
Weapon Config Multirole Mostly AA Mostly AG
Sea Attack Yes N/a Selective Models
BVR Yes N/A N/A
Full Mutirole Radar Yes Mostly AA Depending on model /No
Night Attach Yes AA Only AA / Some model AG
Guided weapon (AG) Yes Carrier only no pod Selective models
Engine performance 1980/1990 Performance 1960s technology 1960s Technology
MTBO ~1200 hours Every 800 hours ~ 1200-1800 hours
MTBO Engine 600-800 hours Every 300-350 hours ~300 hours
Technology Digital Analog /Some Digital Analog/Some Digital
A/c Availability Per sqn 16/18 aircraft 12-14/18 (peace time) 12/14/18 (Peace time)
Simulators Yes No/Basic No/Basic
AAR Yes No Some
Recon Mission Some? No Some/Old TechAA On station time (AA) ~1:30 minutes 45 minutes -55min ?
External Fuel 3000liters 800+2X500liters (2X1300 +1X1300 liters)
Cost of Operation Low Low-Med Medium
Data Link Yes No No
ECM/ECCM V Advance Basic Basic
Price Fly Away ~$16/18M ~4M USed/New ~6M Used ($1-2 M)
Price with weapon + 1 year Parts/Service
~20/22M ~6-8M -?
Service Life ~4000 hours and more with ext. 2400 hours ~2400 hours or ~3000 with ext.
Life in years 4000/150 hours per year 2400/150 2400/150

JF-17 is being marketed to replace F5 same kind of specs, Mirage, Mirage F1s and F7s/MiG 21/23 so always compare it to theses 1960s A/c and the capability u r getting while replacing them (Single role to Multirole) and that what Chines /Pak market is focused on.