JF-17's various initial design phases & design resemblances

[ziaulislam]

3. Blk 3 would house major changes such as radar, improved engine either ws or rd-93ma, both are being tested in china. Itll also house regular improvements, software enhancements to accommodate newer avoinics and weapons. There are many options on the table.

Keep in mind that the Italians came with attractive offers a few days ago. They want to have a bigger slice of pie and dont want to miss out this time like they did with the Grifo-S

Lastly, the Indra ew suite in blk 2 is better than anything that French had ever offered to us. Its multimode, powerful, excellent threat detection and LPI capability, can even jam or disrupt multiple frequencies simultaneously.
As of now, single and dual pod configurations are being tested on blk 2.

I never really understood why thunder never head 1 dedicated pod station under its air entry just like tejas or most of the other modern fighters have, i thought it should have had 9 station from the beginning. I am not even sure whether this would be possible in block 3, there is probably some thing that we amateurs dont get

 

[MastanKhan]

Is that all you could come up with? How mature.

Hi,

What do you want me to answer to your silly post---I mean to say---there is a limit to being thoughtless---.

What did you think that this was a pre wedding dress rehearsal---that the bride & her maids were changing clothes for different functions---.

The JF17 took a 10 years hit due to the loss of sale of French EW suite---. If the French suite was available---there would have been only one BLK---and air probe added as an addition.

 

[aftab_s81]

The JF17 took a 10 years hit due to the loss of sale of French EW suite---. If the French suite was available---there would have been only one BLK---and air probe added as an addition.

Abb lakeer peetney ka kya faida, those who don't want to understand will not understand.

IMHO, regardless to the fact that JFT will get upgrades in different blocks, we will still need a medium/long-legged fighter to fill in the gap of denied F-16s. JFT will always be limited in two areas, first its payload capability and second, its range. Our love for JFT cannot fill-in these deep holes until we decide and roll-out our MRCA program. This is extremely surprising for me that PAF is still indecisive about their MRCA platform. World fighter programs are slow and fast, but regardless, at least they need to commit to something. At this point, some day we are hearing about J-10, then next day Su-35, somebody comes up with J-31 another day. This is ridiculous, they need to stick to something. The actual acquisition and induction process may be slow, but it seems that they will take ages to decide a platform at first. And this is going to hurt us in near future. If India decides to actually have a surgical strike, as they intend to, we will have nothing to stop them. And this is called pants down, BIG shit.

 

[Dazzler]

Hi,

What do you want me to answer to your silly post---I mean to say---there is a limit to being thoughtless---.

What did you think that this was a pre wedding dress rehearsal---that the bride & her maids were changing clothes for different functions---.

The JF17 took a 10 years hit due to the loss of sale of French EW suite---. If the French suite was available---there would have been only one BLK---and air probe added as an addition.

More assumptions, the jf-17 WAS to have a block approach, much like the f-16 from the beginning. Initially, five blocks were planned but so far only three are known with timelines and upgrades etc, Google it.

Just how you came to that 10 year figure and 1 blk theory? I dont see how it lost that much time just because it couldnt accommodate French EW.

The French avionics was an option that never materialized due to pressure from india. In the end, they ended up losing the more than two third of the sale as well, from 126 to 36.

Whereas the jf-17 project, despite a temporary setback, went along and has at least three sources keenly willing to supply radar, avionics, weapons namely Italy, Spain, and Turkey. Chinese themselves are miles ahead in aviation technology than where they were in the early 2000s.

In short, your rhetoric on jf-17 taking a 10 year hit and what not without the mighty french ew suite has no basis.

 

[MastanKhan]

Just how you came to that 10 year figure and 1 blk theory? I dont see how it lost that much time just because it couldnt accommodate French EW.

The French avionics was an option that never materialized due to pressure from india. In the end, they ended up losing the more than two third of the sale as well, from 126 to 36.

.

Hi,

That is why I am saying---you don't think with your brain---you just want to talk---. The French rejected the sale in around 2009---what does that make---8 years---in another 2 will be 10 years---.

When you get an equal to french package in another 2 years---it would be 10 years---.

The French EW was not an option---it was a must buy----.

When you buy weapons systems---you have already closed the option clause when you signed the contract deal. That means---all options have been closed---you already picked your bride---Nikah Ho Giya Hai---.

They have not ended up losing anything----you need to look at the Diesel / Electric locomotive contract as well---.

And what difference does it make to us--if they won or lost the number of aircraft---.

What difference does it make to you if the neighbors baby does not get the life saving drug.

Your problem would be if your baby gets the drug or not.

 

[messiach]

There was always 3 generations or blocks of FC-1/jf-17 planned. Block-2 should prove to be a beast of an aircraft. It has been built to instill fear. As i can recall, the major change for generation-3 was of a local turbine-fan. This info is from 2005, it may have changed. WS10 and 10A were the major breakhrough with DSES alloys, variable c/inlet guide vanes and various fabrication technologies incld. EBW and high pressure sealants, with 7-stage high pressure compressor, short annular combustor with air blast atomizer and air film cooling blades. Many spin-offs came out from WS-10A incld. WS-13 & anotherone type for their heavylifter, i think D20 !. Technological expansion was the key development. We must follow this example before we plan to build a generation five aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

There was always 3 generations or blocks of FC-1/jf-17 planned. Block-2 should prove to be a beast of an aircraft. It has been built to instill fear. As i can recall, the major change for generation-3 was of a local turbine-fan. This info is from 2005, it may have changed. WS10 and 10A were the major breakhrough with DSES alloys, variable c/inlet guide vanes and various fabrication technologies incld. EBW and high pressure sealants, with 7-stage high pressure compressor, short annular combustor with air blast atomizer and air film cooling blades. Many spin-offs came out from WS-10A incld. WS-13 & anotherone type for their heavylifter, i think D20 !. Technological expansion was the key development. We must follow this example before we plan to build a generation five aircraft.

It is a good aircraft but lets not overrate it. The WS-10A still had manufacturing reliability issues around 2011. The PAF will stick to the RD-93.

 

[Dazzler]

Hi,

That is why I am saying---you don't think with your brain---you just want to talk---. The French rejected the sale in around 2009---what does that make---8 years---in another 2 will be 10 years---.

When you get an equal to french package in another 2 years---it would be 10 years---.

The French EW was not an option---it was a must buy----.

When you buy weapons systems---you have already closed the option clause when you signed the contract deal. That means---all options have been closed---you already picked your bride---Nikah Ho Giya Hai---.

They have not ended up losing anything----you need to look at the Diesel / Electric locomotive contract as well---.

And what difference does it make to us--if they won or lost the number of aircraft---.

What difference does it make to you if the neighbors baby does not get the life saving drug.

Your problem would be if your baby gets the drug or not.

Only if you realized how far off you have gone in your attempt to prove your point. Nikah, Cars, locos, babies, what next, ufos?

You dont get a simple fact in your head that French ew suite, as good as it was, didnt push the sales further back and gave birth to blk production. This never happened.

Did you know that the french package would cost us $1 billion+ for just 50 specialized aircraft with the option for 50 more? Where do you see the export potential? That would make the aircraft too expensive even for PAF, let alone poor customers.

Arms: France is well placed for a Mega contract with Pakistan​

PARIS (Dow Jones) - Following a call for tenders, Pakistan has retained the French ATE integrator for a contract valued at more than 1 billion euros to help equip and electronics missiles between 50 and 100 fighter aircraft JF-17, designed with the help of Beijing, Les Echos reported on Friday quoting sources concurrent.

The contract would be shared with partners both the ETA, Thales SA (HO.FR) and MBDA, for missiles. MBDA is jointly owned by European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co. NV (EAD.FR), BAE Systems PLC (BA.LN) and Finmeccanica SpA (FNC.MI).

"The contract is ready to be signed. But it must first be a security agreement is signed between the two countries," the economic daily said, adding that the conclusion of this agreement could intervene in the first half of 2010.

French were and still are too obsessed with India and money, but things have not stopped happening for the jf-17, or have they?
French never offered an AESA, neither they offered Spectra, did they?

 

[DCS]

I have to agree with Dazzler, and I can't believe the amount of hysterical BS that has been trotted out thus far.

The JF-17 was always meant to be implemented in blocks, and there is absolutely no substance to the claim that the program was delayed by a decade due to the choice of EW suite.

There is a dedicated EW variant of the J-16 undergoing flight tests right now. If Pakistan needs a robust EW suite, it will have many choices that will go far beyond the French offer from nearly a decade ago.

MK, I still don't know why you place this French EW suite on a pedestal.

 

[Indus Falcon]

It is a good aircraft but lets not overrate it. The WS-10A still had manufacturing reliability issues around 2011. The PAF will stick to the RD-93.

Any updates on the RD-93MA?

 

[MastanKhan]

Only if you realized how far off you have gone in your attempt to prove your point. Nikah, Cars, locos, babies, what next, ufos?

You dont get a simple fact in your head that French ew suite, as good as it was, didnt push the sales further back and gave birth to blk production. This never happened.

Did you know that the french package would cost us $1 billion+ for just 50 specialized aircraft with the option for 50 more? Where do you see the export potential? That would make the aircraft too expensive even for PAF, let alone poor customers.




French were and still are too obsessed with India and money, but things have not stopped happening for the jf-17, or have they?
French never offered an AESA, neither they offered Spectra, did they?

Hi,

I have already said my piece---you can keep chasing the tail.

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

I have already said my piece---you can keep chasing the tail.

Valid points by @Dazzler regarding EW Suite and AESA and SPECTER and sales prospects sir. I do like and support you when it is about calling a spade a spade but let us not go overboard to bash.

 

[Dazzler]

I have already said my piece---

Fair enough.

you can keep chasing the tail.

Again, totally uncalled for.

Learn to be polite and forthcoming to other's opinions.

 

[X-2.]

 

[MastanKhan]

Valid points by @Dazzler regarding EW Suite and AESA and SPECTER and sales prospects sir. I do like and support you when it is about calling a spade a spade but let us not go overboard to bash.

Hi,

I am not here to bash---you need to check the definition---.

My direction is air force---his direction is me---you did not say anything at that time---why jump in now.

Fair enough.



Again, totally uncalled for.

Learn to be polite and forthcoming to other's opinions.

Hi,

My direction was air force---you directed the issue at me---. I am not the issue---the issue is the JF17---the French EW suite---and the JF17 BLOCKS---.

I understand very well that it is very embarrassing for young people to see their air force fail miserably time after time---and I feel for your concerns. But you need to stop covering up the BLUNDERS of that Paf---let them take the HEAT.

There is no rep of the Paf on this board that has ever answered the criticism---if the Paf had TRUTH standing behind it---they would have someone represent on the largest defence website of the world.