JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

[HRK]

Well that is a bummer ... so close but no cigar

PS after the 40min mark, it sounds like the camera man is definitely sick. Hopefully hes not spreading the virus around PAC Kamra and at an active squadron. Very callous attitude of the TV crew and the PAF if it comes to be the case.

programs are usually recorded at least 1 month prior to release date

 

[Safriz]

I want to kill the guy who did sound mixing in this video. Can't hear the interview. What's the point of mixing jet engine sound on top of music?

 

[JamD]

But who are the patners?
China?
Turkey?
One thing we know now. It would JF due to cost

Probably those too.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I believe this was well known and told to us by Oscar many times. BTW where is Oscar?


Just a joke. It doesn't make sense for any agency (like NASA) to certify our NGF design. It probably just means PAC made a preliminary design that was circulated with potential partners who thought it was a viable design. The other partners will probably propose preliminary designs of their own. There will probably be long deliberations and a final design will be selected. I doubt we can afford prototypes for each design. This is preliminary design anyway.

tbh I still can't square whether AZM is going to roll into a consortium (e.g., TFX) or be a stand-alone project.

Yes, the latter is tougher, but it depends to an extent on how deep you're going to develop the inputs. You could very well work on your own design, but source the inputs (engine, components for radar/avionics, etc) from China and some other sources. In fact, it seemed AM (retired) Shahid Lateef was of this view (of course he won't know -- it's just his opinion, albeit a credible one).

I wonder...could the PAF be looking at an original design under AZM, but leverage inputs from multiple sources (or even co-fund/co-develop some inputs)? So, get some things from China (e.g., engine, flight control system), and others from Turkey (e.g. munitions, avionics, radar)?

 

[JamD]

tbh I still can't square whether AZM is going to roll into a consortium (e.g., TFX) or be a stand-alone project.

Yes, the latter is tougher, but it depends to an extent on how deep you're going to develop the inputs. You could very well work on your own design, but source the inputs (engine, components for radar/avionics, etc) from China and some other sources. In fact, it seemed AM (retired) Shahid Lateef was of this view (of course he won't know -- it's just his opinion, albeit a credible one).

I wonder...could the PAF be looking at an original design under AZM, but leverage inputs from multiple sources (or even co-fund/co-develop some inputs)? So, get some things from China (e.g., engine, flight control system), and others from Turkey (e.g. munitions, avionics, radar)?

It certainly seems more realistic that it is a consortium. But I sort of sense that the consortium is not made yet. Mostly because of the vague noncommittal things PAF has been saying. I THINK PAC is pushing for their own design and wants to lead the consortium. I think TAI is pushing their TFX. Not sure about China. Let's see what happens.

 

[CriticalThought]

These links explain what it means to get an aircraft design certified:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...ews/2006-12-18/aircraft-certification-process

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/

The following quote brings out the overall aim:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/easa-and-you/general-aviation/documents-guidance-and-examples

The certification process is based on design activities (drawings, modeling, specifications), but consist mostly of engineering tasks (analysis, testing, assessment) where the applicant have to show, through certification documents, how the design meets the airworthiness requirements.

Based on what I know, this certification looks at things such as the design includes quad redundancy for critical systems, the minimum flight envelope to allow the aircraft to come out of stalls at specified heights, etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It certainly seems more realistic that it is a consortium. But I sort of sense that the consortium is not made yet. Mostly because of the vague noncommittal things PAF has been saying. I THINK PAC is pushing for their own design and wants to lead the consortium. I think TAI is pushing their TFX. Not sure about China. Let's see what happens.

I can understand where TAI's coming from...they did contract BAE to help design the TFX after all. That deal would have to shake real hard for them to budge and work with AvRID to design something else.

 

[Kabotar]

His exact words were "Hum log bhi esi hybrid kisim ki modality aur understanding k sath chalaingy." Either nothing is finalized or they are keeping it to themselves.

I can understand where TAI's coming from...they did contract BAE to help design the TFX after all. That deal would have to shake real hard for them to budge and work with AvRID to design something else.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

His exact words were "Hum log bhi esi hybrid kisim ki modality aur understanding k sath chalaingy." Either nothing is finalized or they are keeping it to themselves.

IMHO...a consortium would be a deathtrap for us. Don't get me wrong, there's no easy path, but a consortium for us would mean opening up hooks we can't control. It makes sense to do a consortium, but not for Pakistan -- we're on a crap-list, so the easier path will rarely be an option, not for a FGFA.

It's just my understanding, but I do think the PAF will pursue AZM on its own. This is not to say the PAF will source everything from Pakistan, that's totally unrealistic. However, I fully believe the PAF will stand behind its own design, and it will source the most difficult inputs from overseas (similar to what South Korea is doing for the KFX).

So ... engines and flight control system from China; semiconductors from China but radar, electronic warfare and avionics design in Pakistan; and maybe aero-structures and materials production in Pakistan. AvRID would pull it all together in Pakistan as an original fighter. This is my guess.

 

[LKJ86]

but radar, electronic warfare and avionics design in Pakistan

How about Pakistan's semiconductor industry?

 

[ssethii]

As per director PAC in this program software of JF-17 is completely indigenous

"program software for JF-17" is a very loose term and doesn't specify anything.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

How about Pakistan's semiconductor industry?

I've heard of an attempt to get into fabtech, but I don't think there's any concrete plan towards it. The PAF will probably look to another source for transceiver modules (TRM) and other critical components, but create original end-applications out of them.

 

[JamD]

Intake for cooling down the APU

This was in a TV show recently (thanks to @HRK for the picture), thought I'd share. Not an inlet for anything. Just a vortex generator:

 

[HRK]

This was in a TV show recently (thanks to @HRK for the picture), thought I'd share. Not an inlet for anything. Just a vortex generator:
View attachment 617355

I never observe it carefully before but after your post I searched my archive and found pic of this attachment from the front and it is same as you are stating

 

[Safriz]

This was in a TV show recently (thanks to @HRK for the picture), thought I'd share. Not an inlet for anything. Just a vortex generator:
View attachment 617355

Ok.. so that's settled then. I was wondering the same.