JF-17 with AESA radar and helmet mounted system and the PL-15 misile will replace F16 as top jet ?

[Ultima Thule]

Incorrect,

That document was false and Taiwanese Defense Forces themselves rejected it when they approached by international media.

It is our missile.

And I will not be responding to you anymore since I feel you lack the knack of keeping a discussion healthy. Nothing personal.

Thanks.

But F-16 was not in Strike package, was doing doing CAP all along the LOC/IB, as per DGISPR @airomerix

 

[TheTallGuy]

I agree we know a lot less than what has happened. The problem is not solved by the fact that ISPR is claiming 2 CONFIRMED destroyed planes(M21+MKI). There is another M21 that went down in Indian Kashmir on the same time and claimed to be technical fault( if a Missile lodged up your rear end can be considered a technical fault!!! ). There is also an unconfirmed news of an M2K down but cannot be corroborated. So I say they lost 3 platforms 2 M21s +MKI. This is my analysis based on open sourced media reports. I cannot say whether there were more but these seem likely.
A

snip bit - MiG-21BISON which fell inside Pakistan is tail end shot.

the number i have is such that i cant believe myself and on other end it makes sense as well what happened afterwards how quickly thing went to Brahmos...so wait till tomorrow lets see what DG ISPR comes up with?

One more thing why is indian narrative have only eight aircraft in air when the engagement started. after all there are three FOB in IOK.

I would still say numbers in air increased and not enough planes landed back - Brahmos came in!

this would also mean that india will order further rafales soon and will also go ahead with 120+ single jet engine

Rafales are done! we as people should not be worried. they buy 120+ good for them we have already decoded it and steps have been taken already since 2 years mind you this was started when Rafale become the preferred choice.

After all they had 250+ Su-30MKI "Asian Raptor" in service. Rafale will have the same fate. please let Nazi Modi and Ambanis make money!

Hell There Mirage 2000i and Su-30MKI were not able to fire the missiles...say quite a lot!

Food for Thought!
Where are those 2 x Mirage 2000i on CAP up north towards sharda?

Why were Srinagar Air defense were active SAM Systems which opened fire...i hope you understand they were seriously threatened or 1st line of defense was shattered..this could be only reason.

and crazy as it sounds...who was flying Mirage 2000i with MICA?

 

[AsifIjaz]

I second whatever u have stated here and a few posts earlier.. The only difference in the narrative that i have is it was 8 aircrafts locked vs 6 aircrafts locked... Sanity prevailed and none pressed the button

Incorrect,

That document was false and Taiwanese Defense Forces themselves rejected it when they approached by international media.

It is our missile.

And I will not be responding to you anymore since I feel you lack the knack of keeping a discussion healthy. Nothing personal.

Thanks.



What you're saying brings alot of speculation in the equation. It is possible and who knows it might have happened. But what I've been told by pilots who took part in the operation, there was no mention of anymore missiles launched or any other jet being shot except a bison and a flanker.

Also PAF never jumps to claim victories it has not achieved. We could have easily acclaimed Mi-17's kill and no one would bat an eye. But we did not.

What I know for certain it, that day there were multiple radar locks in the engagement. There was a point, when 8 jets, 4 PAF and 4 IAF aircraft had missile locks on each other. The only difference rested with the guy who would press that red button.



Exactly. Also even if F-16's were used against targets on the ground. Why tell the world and the US particular that we are bombing your potential F-21 customer. Wouldnt settle well at Capitol.

 

[SQ8]

The JF-17's were primarily tasked with escorting Mirages.

Once Mirages exited the war theatre, 2 x JF-17s engaged the intruders as a support to 2 other F-16 formations in the zone. Radar locks were acquired successfully. Why the missile wasnt fired was a primary decision of AOC CAC who was airborne in one of the F-16s as a GIBS.

Regardless, for all intents and purposes; the official stance is that the F-16 werent used and hence officially the kills are JF-17s(which they likely could have been).

 

[TheTallGuy]

I second whatever u have stated here and a few posts earlier.. The only difference in the narrative that i have is it was 8 aircrafts locked vs 6 aircrafts locked... Sanity prevailed and none pressed the button

Somebody pressed the button so we have two confirmed kills but 8 aircraft sound crazy isn`t it!
in total indian had as per indians 8 x aircraft in air 2 x MiG-21BISON(Scramble), 2 x Mirage 2000i CAP up north, 2 x Su-30MKI (CAP) and 2 x Su-30MKI came from Mainland.

Interesting part is They have collected by Indian Narrative AIM-120C5 peices from Rajouri which is quite far from kills fell.

 

[araz]

would like to see the second mig21 crash link/news?
and where are you hearing the M2K news

this would explain why india decided to retaliate with missle strike rather than using airforce again..

this would also mean that india will order further rafales soon and will also go ahead with 120+ single jet engine

M21 crash was seen as a news clip on Youtube dated the same day and reported by Indian media. Sorry I currently dont have time to post link. The MKI is courtesy Alan Warnes. My apologies for not complying with your request.
Regards
A

 

[airomerix]

Regardless, for all intents and purposes; the official stance is that the F-16 werent used and hence officially the kills are JF-17s(which they likely could have been).

If that is true then there is nothing better. Like ISPR said to Indian people. Pick a jet of your choice. Results remain as is.

 

[Ultima Thule]

If that is true then there is nothing better. Like ISPR said to Indian people. Pick a jet of your choice. Results remain as is.

And why you insisting that Su was down by F-16 do you have any proof, and don't talk about AMRAAM wreck its already debunk here @airomerix

 

[airomerix]

And why you insisting that Su was down by F-16 do you have any proof, and don't talk about AMRAAM wreck its already debunk here @airomerix

I'm not interested in presenting you with any proof.

You are disrespectful, erratic and you lack manners of a debate. Do not quote me again.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I'm not interested in presenting you with any proof.

You are disrespectful, erratic and you lack manners of a debate. Do not quote me again.

what did i say bad for you @airomerix

 

[Army research]

Regardless, for all intents and purposes; the official stance is that the F-16 werent used and hence officially the kills are JF-17s(which they likely could have been).

Sir I think that the M21 kill was jf17 , As the m21 was out to intercept the strike package escorted by the jf17s and it fell into the trap,
Where as the flanker kill is probably by a f16 ( which explains the explored amraam as in case of missing the target they are designed to go inert )
What ispr said that f16s weren't used , probably was true that it meant that they were not used in the 'strike' on occupied Kashmir , however they didn't say it wasn't flying in friendly skies ,
Just a speculation

 

[Super Falcon]

Stilli thinkwe need heavy weught fighters like SU 35

 

[MastanKhan]

snip bit - MiG-21BISON which fell inside Pakistan is tail end shot.

the number i have is such that i cant believe myself and on other end it makes sense as well what happened afterwards how quickly thing went to Brahmos...so wait till tomorrow lets see what DG ISPR comes up with?

One more thing why is indian narrative have only eight aircraft in air when the engagement started. after all there are three FOB in IOK.

I would still say numbers in air increased and not enough planes landed back - Brahmos came in!



Rafales are done! we as people should not be worried. they buy 120+ good for them we have already decoded it and steps have been taken already since 2 years mind you this was started when Rafale become the preferred choice.

After all they had 250+ Su-30MKI "Asian Raptor" in service. Rafale will have the same fate. please let Nazi Modi and Ambanis make money!

Hell There Mirage 2000i and Su-30MKI were not able to fire the missiles...say quite a lot!

Food for Thought!
Where are those 2 x Mirage 2000i on CAP up north towards sharda?

Why were Srinagar Air defense were active SAM Systems which opened fire...i hope you understand they were seriously threatened or 1st line of defense was shattered..this could be only reason.

and crazy as it sounds...who was flying Mirage 2000i with MICA?

Hi,

You have brought out a very interesting point---" why did the issue progress towards Brahmos launch---"---.

Preparing Brahmos launch was an extremely serious escalation of hostilities---what caused it---that would be interesting to know---.

The IAF turning tail and the military going for Bahmos strike does not sound comprehensible---.

IAF has very potent aircraft---. Only thing coming to mind is that the politicians took over the decision from fighting aircraft to aircraft---to fighting with surface launch missiles---. They did not want to face the nation and the world with major aircraft losses and wanted to go towards assured & guaranteed mutual destruction---meaning---our missiles hit them---their missiles hit us---.

The damage is visible---the public will be satisfied---.

 

[Falcon26]

snip bit - MiG-21BISON which fell inside Pakistan is tail end shot.

the number i have is such that i cant believe myself and on other end it makes sense as well what happened afterwards how quickly thing went to Brahmos...so wait till tomorrow lets see what DG ISPR comes up with?

One more thing why is indian narrative have only eight aircraft in air when the engagement started. after all there are three FOB in IOK.

I would still say numbers in air increased and not enough planes landed back - Brahmos came in!



Rafales are done! we as people should not be worried. they buy 120+ good for them we have already decoded it and steps have been taken already since 2 years mind you this was started when Rafale become the preferred choice.

After all they had 250+ Su-30MKI "Asian Raptor" in service. Rafale will have the same fate. please let Nazi Modi and Ambanis make money!

Hell There Mirage 2000i and Su-30MKI were not able to fire the missiles...say quite a lot!

Food for Thought!
Where are those 2 x Mirage 2000i on CAP up north towards sharda?

Why were Srinagar Air defense were active SAM Systems which opened fire...i hope you understand they were seriously threatened or 1st line of defense was shattered..this could be only reason.

and crazy as it sounds...who was flying Mirage 2000i with MICA?

DG ISPR is providing more information today?

Incorrect,

That document was false and Taiwanese Defense Forces themselves rejected it when they approached by international media.

It is our missile.

And I will not be responding to you anymore since I feel you lack the knack of keeping a discussion healthy. Nothing personal.

Thanks.



What you're saying brings alot of speculation in the equation. It is possible and who knows it might have happened. But what I've been told by pilots who took part in the operation, there was no mention of anymore missiles launched or any other jet being shot except a bison and a flanker.

Also PAF never jumps to claim victories it has not achieved. We could have easily acclaimed Mi-17's kill and no one would bat an eye. But we did not.

What I know for certain it, that day there were multiple radar locks in the engagement. There was a point, when 8 jets, 4 PAF and 4 IAF aircraft had missile locks on each other. The only difference rested with the guy who would press that red button.



Exactly. Also even if F-16's were used against targets on the ground. Why tell the world and the US particular that we are bombing your potential F-21 customer. Wouldnt settle well at Capitol.

Were the PAF locks vipers or Thunders?

 

[airomerix]

DG ISPR is providing more information today?



Were the PAF locks vipers or Thunders?

Both. JF-17's had locked on to flankers for sometime and vice versa. SD-10 is potent weapon on JF-17. It has been concluded.