JF-17 Thunder's Armament

[Cool_Soldier]

Might be several targets in the area to hit. Pic might be showing single hit.

 

[graphican]

Might be several targets in the area to hit. Pic might be showing single hit.

There is no visible target where bombs have landed. It looks like an easy miss.

 

[war&peace]

How does this pod compare with Damocles or Sniper pods?

 

[Viper0011.]

It looks like these missed the target by a huge margin, mile or so i would say!
Doesn't look like guided munitions anyway!

May be the actual mission was to destroy stuff in-between the two marked targets . Yea, he sure missed by like half a mile at the least.

 

[Tempest II]

It looks like these missed the target by a huge margin, mile or so i would say!
Doesn't look like guided munitions anyway!

I somehow think the yellow marker we are looking at is not the intended target

Are those 2,000 lb things?

 

[war&peace]

A conceptual study was carried out to design an aircraft indigenously with larger wings ( 32% more than reference area of JF17) with 9 hard points, with a payload of upto 5000 kgs but it was dropped in favour JF-17 to shorten the time of development and also due to lack of will for initiating a totally indigenous airplane programme (practical and financial reasons)..but analysing retrospectively, I can see it would have been a true answer to PAF needs in medium to heavy category.

Even a double-delta configuration was among multiple configurations made a scaled model testing. Though the program was shelved but still all the documents of its designs and analyses in preliminary design and development phase were archived applying the CM principles.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

A conceptual study was carried to design an aircraft indigenously with larger wings ( 32% more than reference area of JF17) with 9 hard points, with a payload of upto 5000 kgs but it was dropped in favour JF-17 so shorten the time of time development and also due to lack of will for initiating a totally indigenous airplane programme (practical and financial reasons)..but analysing retrospectively, I can see it would have been a true answer to PAF needs in medium to heavy category.

Evan a double-delta configuration was among multiple configurations made a scaled model testing. Though the program was shelved but still all the documents of its designs and analyses in preliminary design and development phase were archived applying the CM principles.

Was it similar to F-16 or the new Gripen?

 

[war&peace]

Was it similar to F-16 or the new Gripen?
View attachment 305794 View attachment 305795

Most of configurations were like Grippen with some features similar to F-16. I still think that if economy gets better, insha-Allah, with CPEC and also if looted money is brought back, we can revive that project. A great team was working on it and many of them very experienced and highly qualified but I'm not sure if they are still there.

 

[MastanKhan]

A conceptual study was carried out to design an aircraft indigenously with larger wings ( 32% more than reference area of JF17) with 9 hard points, with a payload of upto 5000 kgs but it was dropped in favour JF-17 so shorten the time of time development and also due to lack of will for initiating a totally indigenous airplane programme (practical and financial reasons)..but analysing retrospectively, I can see it would have been a true answer to PAF needs in medium to heavy category.

Evan a double-delta configuration was among multiple configurations made a scaled model testing. Though the program was shelved but still all the documents of its designs and analyses in preliminary design and development phase were archived applying the CM principles.

Hi,

Then basically they were originally going to do what the japanese had done

So---how do you know about that. Can you find any reference to it so that I can rub some noses in the dirt-----

 

[Arsalan]

I somehow think the yellow marker we are looking at is not the intended target

I certainly hope so

But thing is, if you check the point where the bombs actually exploded and then cross reference it with the picture before explosion, you can see that there is NOTHING at the area where the bombs actually hit. In short, I do not see any other thing that can be called as target but that yellow marker that we missed by a mile.
Cannot be sure anyway and also, a consolation, those were not any guided munitions

Are those 2,000 lb things?

The usually carry one 2000er on the center -line station. These are two bombs. Still, if you look at the size and use the fuel tank on the place as a reference marker, the surely look bigger then the 500 lb bombs that they carry under wings normally. Cant say with certainty but since these are two bombs, i will go with 500 lb as the size reference in a picture is dependent on a number of variables.

EDIT: Oh and good to know you are still with us @Tempest II

May be the actual mission was to destroy stuff in-between the two marked targets . Yea, he sure missed by like half a mile at the least.

yesss,,,, why didn't i though of that

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Then basically they were originally going to do what the japanese had done

View attachment 305882

So---how do you know about that. Can you find any reference to it so that I can rub some noses in the dirt-----

Hi,

Unfortunately no references is available because it was shelved too early..way before it could make any headlines....Only if some of the team members could corroborate it but I guess none is here on pdf ...It was a self or internal initiative by a team an organisation ( R&D in relevant field) and they were already not so confident because JF-17 project had already been initiated though they were not so sure about that either due to slow progress and financial constraints.

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

Then basically they were originally going to do what the japanese had done

View attachment 305882

So---how do you know about that. Can you find any reference to it so that I can rub some noses in the dirt-----

Now we SHOULD do same with JF17. The basic structure/idea is there, we can build a somewhat new plane around that to address our 4/4.5 gen needs. Considering the generation thing may not be that clear a definition so to explain, we can/should a slightly bigger plane based on the JF17 Blk II/III. Power it with a new engine with more thrust as the plan is, increase the wing loading capacity to increase hard points to 9 or may be even 10 with the 10th under the cockpit for mission POD. Get upgraded avionics (not essentially western, we can benefit from lessons/experience the Chinese acquired developing a number of planes like J10B/C, J11B, J16 or even J31. Get IRST and FLIR along with retractable probe for IFR. A more powerful radar from J10B/C or even maybe from J31 project. If we are to go for J31 at some later stage (which it looks very likely) then maybe we can get our hands on to some of its systems for our, lets say, JF-18 or JF17 NG or whatever.

This is all speculation, wish full thinking and cannot be backed by any source as I am not claiming all this as FACTS. Still I do think that this is be a great approach and will address our medium combat aircraft needs for years to come.

 

[araz]

Now we SHOULD do same with JF17. The basic structure/idea is there, we can build a somewhat new plane around that to address our 4/4.5 gen needs. Considering the generation thing may not be that clear a definition so to explain, we can/should a slightly bigger plane based on the JF17 Blk II/III. Power it with a new engine with more thrust as the plan is, increase the wing loading capacity to increase hard points to 9 or may be even 10 with the 10th under the cockpit for mission POD. Get upgraded avionics (not essentially western, we can benefit from lessons/experience the Chinese acquired developing a number of planes like J10B/C, J11B, J16 or even J31. Get IRST and FLIR along with retractable probe for IFR. A more powerful radar from J10B/C or even maybe from J31 project. If we are to go for J31 at some later stage (which it looks very likely) then maybe we can get our hands on to some of its systems for our, lets say, JF-18 or JF17 NG or whatever.

This is all speculation, wish full thinking and cannot be backed by any source as I am not claiming all this as FACTS. Still I do think that this is be a great approach and will address our medium combat aircraft needs for years to come.

As I have alluded much earlierand on amny occasions,one of the Ex ACM od PAF was on record as saying that the JFT was initially flown with 9 hardpoints. Later on the idea was dropped in favour of 7.
A chin mounted hardpoint has been on the cards and will be onhoard soon for a DESIGNATED POD. Now if posters here want PAF to spend 200-500 million dollars spoiling that which works then may Allah have mercy on you and JFT. As to the possibility of including two more wing hardpoints it still exists. Even easier is the possibilit of a dual ejection rack with 2 Sd10s each, which can achieve the same end which posters are trying to achieve.Also today we have heard of the possibility of JFT having CFTs. Well life does get a little bit more interesting. So people do you really want to **** with that which is working well and is being added to incrementally? Come on guys engage brains.
The possibilities here are endless but the problem is deciding the utility and the cost benefit ratio. So if you guys have a lot of time to kill feel free to do so I am outa here
A

 

[ziaulislam]

A conceptual study was carried out to design an aircraft indigenously with larger wings ( 32% more than reference area of JF17) with 9 hard points, with a payload of upto 5000 kgs but it was dropped in favour JF-17 to shorten the time of development and also due to lack of will for initiating a totally indigenous airplane programme (practical and financial reasons)..but analysing retrospectively, I can see it would have been a true answer to PAF needs in medium to heavy category.

Even a double-delta configuration was among multiple configurations made a scaled model testing. Though the program was shelved but still all the documents of its designs and analyses in preliminary design and development phase were archived applying the CM principles.

thunder was 50-50% project and the block was completely produced on loans agreement with Chinese govt.
do you think we would have been able to devlop or even deploy anything
thunder is a unique blessing for PAF or otherwise you would have seen an airforce with less than 100 in 2020

 

[Arsalan]

As I have alluded much earlierand on amny occasions,one of the Ex ACM od PAF was on record as saying that the JFT was initially flown with 9 hardpoints. Later on the idea was dropped in favour of 7.
A chin mounted hardpoint has been on the cards and will be onhoard soon for a DESIGNATED POD. Now if posters here want PAF to spend 200-500 million dollars spoiling that which works then may Allah have mercy on you and JFT. As to the possibility of including two more wing hardpoints it still exists. Even easier is the possibilit of a dual ejection rack with 2 Sd10s each, which can achieve the same end which posters are trying to achieve.Also today we have heard of the possibility of JFT having CFTs. Well life does get a little bit more interesting. So people do you really want to **** with that which is working well and is being added to incrementally? Come on guys engage brains.
The possibilities here are endless but the problem is deciding the utility and the cost benefit ratio. So if you guys have a lot of time to kill feel free to do so I am outa here
A

Sir i have always been of the same view and have not said much different. I hope you have in mind the discussion about this topic and gone through the posts i make about the fan boy dreams related to JFT.
HOWEVER, there is a new development. The door to F16s is closing fast. Your ministers or spoke person are ANNOUNCING that Pakistan will pursue OTHER options if F16 deal do not goes through. Those other options may well not include any western options BECAUSE of out pockets not being too deep and our pathetic diplomacy in last few years that have left us in near isolation. I do not see many sources from west who will chose to partner with us over any deal that India is going to thrown at them. The realistic option (for now) will be Chinese or may be to some little extent Russian. The other options in past was French but if Rafale deal goes through that may also become a problem.
Keeping all that in mind, the suggestions i made in above post were for that OTHER OPTION and not merely JF17 up gradation dreams. We all know that JF17, in its current role is surely giving satisfactory results and that is why it is being procured in the first place. However the key word here is "current role". If we want a front line fighter as a substitute to F16 then instead of investing on a totally new plane and inducting it in limited number, we can work on a relatively new plane but still keep the basic idea of of JF 17 structure. In corporate features from the next plane that we may well be inducting in future, that is the J31. This can be the solution our Med-High end needs with JF17 (current and future blocks with planned updates that are realistic and have been discussed in details) coming in as Low-Med role and a post 2025 induction of J31 (IF IT MAY) as the NG move.
Please do not confuse what is mentioned in my post with the wishful thinking for JF17 new blocks. I understand and agree that JF17, in its current form, is doing the job it was designed to do pretty well. That was to offer a BVR capable modern jet to replace our ageing fleet of F7, A5 and Mirages, AND do all this remaining a low cost option. The current model along with future upgrades like engine, radar and dual rails will further enhance the capabilities of this replacement plane. A twin seat version is on the cards and that will come into play as well.
I am confident that PAF being satisfied with the plane will go on and induct the planned number of JF17 in current or relatively similar configuration. These will form the back bone of PAF in future as they will be available in numbers.
What i pointed to may be the best approach to fill the gap between JF-17 and some 5th gen procurement in future just like the F16s, just like a handful of options people like to talk about.
Thanks!