JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[TaimiKhan]

Sorry for my ignorance but are these pods any good?

Watch the video to get an idea.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Watch the video to get an idea.

These videos are a commercial and will always show that the product is the best thing since sliced bread. I wanted to know what the experience has been in real life situation esp for our squadrons that have been using these pods in combat. Thanks for your help.

 

[TaimiKhan]

These videos are a commercial and will always show that the product is the best thing since sliced bread. I wanted to know what the experience has been in real life situation esp for our squadrons that have been using these pods in combat. Thanks for your help.

Yaar abhi tak sahi tarha aayee nahi and u r talking about combat.

But their performance was good and that is why bought them. Just look at the price. 25m$ for just 8 pods.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Yaar abhi tak sahi tarha aayee nahi and u r talking about combat.

But their performance was good and that is why bought them. Just look at the price. 25m$ for just 8 pods.

Again I aologise for my ignorance; thank you for your kind efforts to educate me.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Again I aologise for my ignorance; thank you for your kind efforts to educate me.

Kyun sharmindaa ker rahay hoo bhai class lae ker.

 

[Arsalan]

By some, but often sites are stated 84KN sir here is a official links
http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/aircraft/RD-33-family/
http://www.jf-17.com/specifications/:what:

Yes you are right. RD-93 have better thrust that M-88 as per all sources, better than EJ-200 as per SOME sources and close to EJ-200 as per the remaining (84kN as in the link you provided compared to 90kN of EJ200)

All these things considered, i would say best thing could be that we do some tweaks and address any short comings in RD-93 rather than a new engine. For export, i told you what we can or should do if a customer asks for those. Also as mentioned, do not forget RD-93MA, an improved version of RD-93.

 

[CriticalThought]

Yes you are right. RD-93 have better thrust that M-88 as per all sources, better than EJ-200 as per SOME sources and close to EJ-200 as per the remaining (84kN as in the link you provided compared to 90kN of EJ200)

All these things considered, i would say best thing could be that we do some tweaks and address any short comings in RD-93 rather than a new engine. For export, i told you what we can or should do if a customer asks for those. Also as mentioned, do not forget RD-93MA, an improved version of RD-93.

Sir, first of all, integrating a new FADEC engine into the aircraft will be a huge investment if done properly. It took 4 years to integrate F404 onto Tejas once the decision was made. The reason being that modern FADEC engines are optimized based on the intake airstream, which changes based on aircraft geometry and flight envelope. Re-calibrating the engine for a new fighter would be time consuming.

Secondly, you never integrate an engine by simply buying it off the shelf and putting it into the airframe. You will need to start negotiating with Rolls Royce, who will look at your requirements and propose a custom tailored solution that meets all your performance needs. They will tweak EJ-200 if needed. Just like the Russians tweaked RD-33 to produce RD-93.

The main benefits of a European engine would be leveraging the cutting edge technologies. The following would be the prime benefits of a European engine:

1. Reduced heat and radar signature. With a legacy of Eurofighter/Rafale behind them, European engines do not cut corners when it comes to giving every edge on the battlefield. Producing reduced signatures is an exercise in balancing materials science, thermodynamics and much more.

2. Better maintenance and fuel efficiency. As an example, GE is testing its CMC on the F404. By hopping on the bandwagon, the Tejas will now benefit from the world leading, cutting edge innovation, and when the time comes, it will support lighter weight, lower maintenance costs, better fuel efficiency... all because of one decision they made.

We need to bite the bullet and take the technological jump if we want our front line fighter to benefit from all of this. Whether Russian, Chinese, or European, we need to make a choice for the future and not get stuck in the past.

EDIT: Having said all of that, if ever such close collaboration with Rolls Royce becomes a possibility, it would actually make sense to design a new medium weight fighter from scratch, applying all the lessons learnt from JF-17, and making sure our own local talent does all the design and testing work in Pakistan, with critical knowledge brought in through consultants. Some gotchas to look for:

1. Plan for two seater and single seater from the beginning.
2. More ground clearance.
3. Full 3-D FBW from the beginning.
4. LO by design.
5. Enough room for critical future technologies.

I would still target gen 4.5+ with such a project and only when it is successfully delivered would I move on to 5+ gen. I don't believe we can make a quantum leap from 4 gen to 5+ gen just by creating an aviation city. Actual production experience of relatively modern technologies is absolutely essential when pushing the boundaries of what is possible today.

 

[Path-Finder]

Yes you are right. RD-93 have better thrust that M-88 as per all sources, better than EJ-200 as per SOME sources and close to EJ-200 as per the remaining (84kN as in the link you provided compared to 90kN of EJ200)

All these things considered, i would say best thing could be that we do some tweaks and address any short comings in RD-93 rather than a new engine. For export, i told you what we can or should do if a customer asks for those. Also as mentioned, do not forget RD-93MA, an improved version of RD-93.

which sources are these?

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

Yaar abhi tak sahi tarha aayee nahi and u r talking about combat.

But their performance was good and that is why bought them. Just look at the price. 25m$ for just 8 pods.

ain't that price includes integration money as well .... and if I understand upper news right then this time its same amount 25 Mil US$ but for 16 such pods while last time as you are stating the number was 8.

 

[TaimiKhan]

ain't that price includes integration money as well .... and if I understand upper news right then this time its same amount 25 Mil US$ but for 16 such pods while last time as you are stating the number was 8.

Definitely. Must also include capability to service them locally instead of sending abroad all the time.

 

[messiach]

Turbine blades & low pressure shaft-compressor assemblly replacement means significant reduction in turbine weight which means >1 variants are being tested onboard. It will be an interesting 2018.

Per janes defence and Chinese/ pac there is already a prototype of fc1 flying with ws13 / ws17 for last 2/3/4 years what announcement are you referring to?

Hi,

I mean to say---that should be obvious that the FC1 would be checking out newer & different options.

 

[salman-1]

If there is a repeat order of Aselon pods then the number comes to 32 pods, as first order was comprised of 15 pods for targeting and one for training or a simulator pod, now multiply it with 2.

 

[Mentee]

ok sir you right about M-88 it has a less thrust than RD-93 but you can't say about EJ-200, it has a higher thrust than RD-93 sir

what you gonna do with the higher thrust anyways ? It'll suck out all the battery power

 

[MastanKhan]

ok sir you right about M-88 it has a less thrust than RD-93 but you can't say about EJ-200, it has a higher thrust than RD-93 sir

Hi,

The 4 million dollars that you are spending extra on the european engine---you would be better off spending that on a bettwer EW package.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi,

The 4 million dollars that you are spending extra on the european engine---you would be better off spending that on a bettwer EW package.

I mean for expected foreign buyers like Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc etc, who may insisted for western engine