JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[nana41]

it records inflight manoeuvring for debrief purposes.

Like watch out. Big Boss will find out what have you been up to!....Thanks a lot.

 

[aliyusuf]

In the background of Russian willingness to sell Helicopter Gunships to PAA ...

Russia lifts arms embargo to Pakistan: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Russia scraps arms trade embargo on Pakistan

What are the prospects to pave a way to strike a deal for the RD-93ma engines?
This engine would certainly give the Thunder a significant boost in its performance and flight envelope. Importantly, it will raise the T/W ratio easily above 1.

Just a query?

 

[Dazzler]

In the background of Russian willingness to sell Helicopter Gunships to PAA ...

Russia lifts arms embargo to Pakistan: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Russia scraps arms trade embargo on Pakistan

What are the prospects to pave a way to strike a deal for the RD-93ma engines?
This engine would certainly give the Thunder a significant boost in its performance and flight envelope. Importantly, it will raise the T/W ratio easily above 1.

Just a query?

rd-93ma is being tested in china on jf17, take a hint. its meant for export anyway.

 

[Donatello]

In the background of Russian willingness to sell Helicopter Gunships to PAA ...

Russia lifts arms embargo to Pakistan: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Russia scraps arms trade embargo on Pakistan

What are the prospects to pave a way to strike a deal for the RD-93ma engines?
This engine would certainly give the Thunder a significant boost in its performance and flight envelope. Importantly, it will raise the T/W ratio easily above 1.

Just a query?

T/W ratio is a relative term. A fully loaded JF-17 with 4 tonnes of external load would still be T/W ratio less than 1. That's true for most fighters.

 

[aliyusuf]

That is true.
But the norm is to calculate T/W at typical combat weights and not at max load.

I had posted this earlier in this same thread ...

JF-17 Max Aft. Burner Thrust
RD93MA = 9300kg / 20460lbs.
RD93 = 8300kg / 18260lbs

JF-17 Typical Mission Take-Off Weight = 9100kg / 20020lbs

Thrust To Ratio For JF-17:
RD93MA = 1.022
RD93 = 0.912

JF-17 Initial Climb Rate (Mach:0.85 at SL):
RD93MA = 280m/s estimated.
RD93 = 249m/s.

 

[Donatello]

That is true.
But the norm is to calculate T/W at typical combat weights and not at max load.

I had posted this earlier in this same thread ...

JF-17 Max Aft. Burner Thrust
RD93MA = 9300kg / 20460lbs.
RD93 = 8300kg / 18260lbs

JF-17 Typical Mission Take-Off Weight = 9100kg / 20020lbs

Thrust To Ratio For JF-17:
RD93MA = 1.022
RD93 = 0.912

JF-17 Initial Climb Rate (Mach:0.85 at SL):
RD93MA = 280m/s estimated.
RD93 = 249m/s.

Your typical mission take off figures are off, with internal fuel and two AA missiles, JF-17 would be around 9100kg or above. For any useful mission, it will need to carry bombs, anti-ship missiles or BVR weapons, all of which will push this take off weight to 12,000kg or more.

 

[Bratva]

Quoting asif iqbal from sino defence.

07-101 to 07-105 thats 5 units*
08-106 to 08-108 that's 3 units*
09-109 to 09-112 that's 4 units*
10-113 to 10-128 that's 16 units*
11-129 to 11-136 that's 8 units*
12-137 to 12-142 that's 6 units*
13-143 to 13-150 that's 8 units

despite a 20-25/year production capacity claim, actual production is well below 10 for last 3 years and I'm not hopeful for block-II production either

 

[aliyusuf]

Your typical mission take off figures are off, with internal fuel and two AA missiles, JF-17 would be around 9100kg or above. For any useful mission, it will need to carry bombs, anti-ship missiles or BVR weapons, all of which will push this take off weight to 12,000kg or more.

Wouldn't that take the load close to its max load of ~12400Kg?
Does it need to be that high typically?
But it is quite is possible though that I am not aware of the latest specs of the Thunder.

 

[Donatello]

Wouldn't that take the load close to its max load of ~12400Kg?
Does it need to be that high typically?
But It quite is possible though that I am not aware of the latest specs of the Thunder.

For thunder to be useful in combat, yes it needs to max out the payload. Normal CAP missions can be flown with 2 wvr and 2 BVR missiles, but you still need to carry extra fuel for range. For precision strike roles, you need 2 tonnes just for bombs/anti ship missiles and one centreline fuel tank.

Quoting asif iqbal from sino defence.

07-101 to 07-105 thats 5 units*
08-106 to 08-108 that's 3 units*
09-109 to 09-112 that's 4 units*
10-113 to 10-128 that's 16 units*
11-129 to 11-136 that's 8 units*
12-137 to 12-142 that's 6 units*
13-143 to 13-150 that's 8 units

despite a 20-25/year production capacity claim, actual production is well below 10 for last 3 years and I'm not hopeful for block-II production either

Well, we can discard the pre 2009 figures since those were shipped from China as a Small batch production. Actual PAC production started in 2009. Yes it's low, but it peaked to 16 in 2010. It's all about funds. Normally i guess a good rate would be replacing 2 squadrons every 2 years. So upto 18 per year should be the goal from now on.

 

[aliyusuf]

For thunder to be useful in combat, yes it needs to max out the payload. Normal CAP missions can be flown with 2 wvr and 2 BVR missiles, but you still need to carry extra fuel for range. For precision strike roles, you need 2 tonnes just for bombs/anti ship missiles and one centreline fuel tank.

But if air combat ensues ... wouldn't those tanks be jettisoned ... resulting in better T/W ratio for combat maneuvers?

 

[Donatello]

But if air combat ensues ... wouldn't those tanks be jettisoned ... resulting in better T/W ratio for combat maneuvers?

Depends on the scenario and the amount of fuel left in them.

 

[HRK]

What does ACMI stand for?.

Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI).

In addition to @Dazzler post read following links:
www.defensenews.com | Printer-friendly article page
Red Flag ACMI Information
http://www.cubic.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=GJkeQclX44Y=&tabid=294
http://www.drs.com/Products/Training/PDF/DACTS.pdf

 

[Gryphon]

Squadron Analysis

No. 26 Black Spiders MR squadron:

07-103 to 10-123 (21 aircraft - Full strength) based at PAFB Peshawar.

No. 16 Black Panthers OCU squadron:

10-124 to 13-144 (20 aircraft; 10-127 lost to crash) based currently at PAFB Kamra-Minhas. To move to PAFB Peshawar after 3rd squadron stands up.

07-101, 07-102, 13-145 to 13-150 (8 aircraft) - T&E Unit, PAFB Kamra-Minhas. It is believed that seven or all eight of these aircraft will be upgraded to Block 2 standard.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

rd-93ma is being tested in china on jf17, take a hint. its meant for export anyway.

Previously you had reported it WS-13 !

 

[Munir]

Quoting asif iqbal from sino defence.

07-101 to 07-105 thats 5 units*
08-106 to 08-108 that's 3 units*
09-109 to 09-112 that's 4 units*
10-113 to 10-128 that's 16 units*
11-129 to 11-136 that's 8 units*
12-137 to 12-142 that's 6 units*
13-143 to 13-150 that's 8 units

despite a 20-25/year production capacity claim, actual production is well below 10 for last 3 years and I'm not hopeful for block-II production either

The reasons are simple...

You people of pakistan elected Zardari which effectively ruined our relationship with China. Then his puppets from Multan and Gujar Khan misused the developments funds for their party. I mean serious. You must be lucky that the project did not end up in smoke. And thank mr Nawaz for re-investing. Often people have no idea what they should think but starting throwing numbers. Let me remind you that two years before Zardari went out I told you that PAC had not even energy supply to weld...

Block 2 will be not finished in a big hurry. We are extremely busy with block3. Which is a great improvement. Block 2 is now being implemented to all 50 already in service. And in warterms block 1 was no BVR or smart weapons. Neither had it links. etc etc.

I have a feeling that we get rd93-MA pretty soon. And since the engines are interchangeable you will see them entering pretty fast.

it records inflight manoeuvring for debrief purposes.

It transmit realtime to groundstations.