JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Chak Bamu]

True but I am mostly disappointed at the jammer which needs to be carried externally while we were under the impression that there is already an internal jammer like a mirage-2000. I mean if fuel and pods take all the hardpoints then the remaining weapons load out is quite pathetic.

I hear you, but it is not necessarily so. PAF knows this too. Notice that PAF strictly controls the release of information for the last two years or so. There may be a surprise. In any case wait for specs for JF-17 Blk III.

 

[Bilal.]

I hear you, but it is not necessarily so. PAF knows this too. Notice that PAF strictly controls the release of information for the last two years or so. There may be a surprise. In any case wait for specs for JF-17 Blk III.

So a wait till mid 2017...

 

[Dazzler]

Plus I am sick and tired of the argument that it's a small aircraft, the damn thing is almost as big as an F-16...

We can't put an internal jammer because it's a small aircraft... Ridiculous...

it has an internal jammer, persumably a foreign one !

even F-7P has it, usually it is a simple noise jammer type that covers common radar/ missile frequencies.

 

[Bilal.]

it has an internal jammer, persumably a foreign one !

even F-7P has it, usually it is a simple noise jammer type that covers common radar/ missile frequencies.

Then why in the interview posted above they are saying that the jamming component of the ECM needs to be carried externally because the aircraft is small. I understand that additional jammed(kg-300G) can be carried as an additional jammer or so I thought but they make it sound like there is no internal jammer. The foreign component they are talking about is probably the alr-400 rwr.

 

[Dazzler]

Then why in the interview posted above they are saying that the jamming component of the ECM needs to be carried externally because the aircraft is small. I understand that additional jammed(kg-300G) can be carried as an additional jammer or so I thought but they make it sound like there is no internal jammer.

there is one, always was, without it, the electronic warfare is just chaff and flare dispensing to shoo the incoming missile away

The external jammer is carried on special missions such as wild weasel, i.e. when more powerful multimode additional jamming is needed to jam enemy radars and sensors.

 

[Bilal.]

there is one, always was, without it, the electronic warfare is just chaff and flare dispensing to shoo the incoming missile away

The external jammer is carried on special missions such as wild weasel, i.e. when more powerful multimode additional jamming is needed to jam enemy radars and sensors.

Thank you for giving me peace of mind

 

[Dazzler]

you will ALOT of stuff in info pool mate

 

[Bilal.]

you will ALOT of stuff in info pool mate

You think I did not go through the whole juicy thread already?

It's just that this recent interview put me off, probably the boys were misquoted or misunderstood by the interviewer.

 

[Dazzler]

here is a good read on Chinese ECM and SIGINT tech...

LA NUEVA CUBA

 

[Bilal.]

here is a good read on Chinese ECM and SIGINT tech...

LA NUEVA CUBA

I skipped directly to the airborne jammers section, some interesting entries there.

 

[Dazzler]

I skipped directly to the airborne jammers section, some interesting entries there.

fueling the fire

http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/3442011/jf17.asp

 

[sancho]

With Klimov saying it is a TOP PRIORITY, that say there is a REAL PUSH/NEED/DEMAND for this engine. … … The Klimov poster that was displayed two years ago also shows a higher thrust RD-93. … … These are two separate sources talking of an uprated engine.
Concerning what 9,300kgf (20,503lbf) can do on a fighter that size, please compare with the Gripen NG with the F414G with 22,000lbf.

The RD93 upgrade is on offer for sure, since it would be based on the RD33 MK upgrade, but the key for the JF 17 is, that developing this varient will cost money and the Russians are not going to fund it, they don't even buy more Migs with such an engine anymore and there is only JF17 that would require a single engine varient (Mig 29K, Mig 35, J31 would all use the normal MK version). So would PAF fund upgrades of the RD93 engine, or wait for a suitable Chinese engine till it's reliable and powerful enough, to safe costs?
Also the comparison to the GE 414G btw is a bit more difficult, since the thrust increase for the Gripen is far bigger:

RD33-3/RD93 - 49,4kN dry / RD 33MK - 52,8kN dry => 7%
RD33-3/RD93 - 84,4kN wet / RD 33MK - 90kN wet => 6,7%
RM12 - 55kn dry / GE414G - 62,3kn dry => 13%
RM12 - 80,5kn wet / GE414G - 98kn dry => 21,8%

Even if the RD-93MA would have 93kN wet thrust, that would only be an increase of roughly 10,2% and even less for the dry thrust, so would an upgrade really get JF 17 that much compared to WS13?

 

[sancho]

Would it be possible for Pakistan to acquire 1-2 Squadrons of highly upgraded Jf-17s for a dedicated maritime role ?

There are some problems here, once that you upgrade PAF would pay for developing the whole upgrade, which makes it worth only if a larger number of fighters would be procured and upgraded, but that doesn't seems to be possible as of now.
Secondly, a new radar usually will be developed for A2A modes, with A2G or maritme attack modes added later, so the first AESAs definitely won't be suited for maritime attack.
But most of all, PAF would need to consider what is really important to defend? The ports at Pakistans coast lines might be important for fuel supply in war times, but the important military targets are in the north. So would PAF really spend the money on a few fighters for the maritime attack role, or on a higher numbers of modernised fighters to defend a larger part of the country and more important targets?

The whole hocus-pocus about the Vikramaditya has created too much of confusions, just like the carrier killer missle btw. Imo JF 17 needs far different things, first of all RCS reductions by coatings, IRST and credible passive detection capabilities and clearly also the refuelling probe to increase it's endurance even in A2A role, without taking carrying too many fuel tanks.
AESA is not really needed if JF 17 has credible AWACS support and IRST, combined with a low RCS it would be pretty difficult to beat it in A2A combats. The performance of PAF will not be decided by JF 17 alone, but by how good all capabilities including AWACS, tankers as well as the Mirage and F16s will be used.

 

[Tempest II]

The Air International article mentions 26 degree limit AOA! ... ...???

 

[khanasifm]

carrying drop tanks rather than additional bvr missile is a choice decision but mil std 1760 and mil std 1553 interface on all HP means you can carry if you want to. Addition HP mean you carry more weapon /pod options distributed in multiple configuration but still keeping within current max load of 3600/4000kg but it will require additional testing and $, there is f104 pic of Italian af interceptor with new 3 heavy weapon pylon under the belly added later on to convert less .70 twr fighter into a fighter bomber