JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Dillinger]

Actually, it is the JF-17 that needs an ESA radar.

Vipers will have the APG68(9) which is very good and tested in all aspects. PAF cannot integrate a ESA in F-16s, unless it is done through the USA itself, like in the case of UAE F-16s.

Since JF-17 is to form the backbone of PAF, ESA is an important upgrade. Funds, permitting, it would be done.

Funding seems to be one constraint and according to Oscar there seems to be some issue of spacial constraints wrt the cooling system for the AESA..well handling PAO was never easy and try to employ it as a coolant with an AESA in a smaller platform can't be too easy either. In due time perhaps, once PAF can get back to a more secure financial standing.

 

[Donatello]

Funding seems to be one constraint and according to Oscar there seems to be some issue of spacial constraints wrt the cooling system for the AESA..well handling PAO was never easy and try to employ it as a coolant with an AESA in a smaller platform can't be too easy either. In due time perhaps, once PAF can get back to a more secure financial standing.

The world of solid state electronics and radar is moving at a fast pace. I would expect the Chinese to be moving rapidly as well. Even if there was a problem, it could be solved. Maybe not today, but perhaps a couple years from now. But that would be being optimistic, since no where does PAF Explicitly mention that it is looking for an ESA radar for JF-17.

 

[SQ8]

Hmm..the JFs don't particularly need an ESA radar, perhaps that's something that can be reserved for the vipers or any other platform that the PAF might acquire in the future. Btw when did the Chinese had over the tactical trainer for the JFTs?

An ESA Radar is good, but it is not a necessity for the requirements needed from these two platforms. Both the APG-68 and KLJ-7 are fairly respectable radars in their class and potent enough to get the job done.

@Aeronaut @Oscar @fatman17 and others this article is saying Block II will mainly have Air Refueling capability but others things will be not much different from BLOCK I what do you have to say about it

the same I said two years ago, one year ago, one month ago..

TOLD YOU SO.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Actually, it is the JF-17 that needs an ESA radar.

Vipers will have the APG68(9) which is very good and tested in all aspects. PAF cannot integrate a ESA in F-16s, unless it is done through the USA itself, like in the case of UAE F-16s.

Since JF-17 is to form the backbone of PAF, ESA is an important upgrade. Funds, permitting, it would be done.

True, that's always the bottom line though, funding. There's a lot of things the JF-17 could really do with given funding. A modern QWIP IRST is pretty high up on my list.

I don't think JF-17 is going to see another radar in the foreseeable future, not until the KLJ-7 and any scope for upgrade becomes somewhat obsolete.

 

[Dillinger]

The world of solid state electronics and radar is moving at a fast pace. I would expect the Chinese to be moving rapidly as well. Even if there was a problem, it could be solved. Maybe not today, but perhaps a couple years from now. But that would be being optimistic, since no where does PAF Explicitly mention that it is looking for an ESA radar for JF-17.

Oh they will solve it, that is a given..enough testing/funding and they will get through. Well the PAF will be more concerned with reaching FOC I guess and integrating a greater range of munitions.

 

[Donatello]

Oh they will solve it, that is a given..enough testing/funding and they will get through. Well the PAF will be more concerned with reaching FOC I guess and integrating a greater range of munitions.

FOC is there, the only problem is that the current two squadrons have the task of standing up the rest of the squadrons.

A range of weapons have been tested. But like any weapons system, they need to be tested and tested again. That is a gradual process and cannot be sped up. It is vital for any combat aircraft, be it the F-16 or F-22 Raptor.

Initial F-16 Blk 5 etc flew with 9 hard points, it took time to increase these to 11 and then further input by the IdAF that the concept of CFT came up. How long did it take? 5-10 years. 10 years is the time it takes to mature a new fighter. In case of JF-17, the current JF-17s are to be used for Pilot training, air crew assimilation and then weapons testing.

Which is why some of the Prototypes are permanently in China and are continuously being tested.

Then the pilots of JF-17 have a monumental task of flying the aircraft in DACT missions, up against the F-7 series (mig 21), Mirage, F-16s and perhaps with the Chinese, Su 27/30

 

[SQ8]

FOC is there, the only problem is that the current two squadrons have the task of standing up the rest of the squadrons.

A range of weapons have been tested. But like any weapons system, they need to be tested and tested again. That is a gradual process and cannot be sped up. It is vital for any combat aircraft, be it the F-16 or F-22 Raptor.

Initial F-16 Blk 5 etc flew with 9 hard points, it took time to increase these to 11 and then further input by the IdAF that the concept of CFT came up. How long did it take? 5-10 years. 10 years is the time it takes to mature a new fighter. In case of JF-17, the current JF-17s are to be used for Pilot training, air crew assimilation and then weapons testing.

Which is why some of the Prototypes are permanently in China and are continuously being tested.

Then the pilots of JF-17 have a monumental task of flying the aircraft in DACT missions, up against the F-7 series (mig 21), Mirage, F-16s and perhaps with the Chinese, Su 27/30

It took two years for the IOC for the F-16 and three years from the block-1 to the block-15 for the F-16. It also launched its first AMRAAM before the F-15 the same year the Block-15s were delivered. It wasnt till 7 years later that the F-16 took its place with developed tactics in the USAF Arsenal. However, the F-16 is a model program as such and due to its scale enjoyed the benefits of a more wider resource based in tactics development and testing.

The JF-17 has already done DACT with all the PAF platforms.. and the Chinese Sukhois.. But it needs to go beyond the Chinese to other airforces where it can train with differing tactics on fighters such as the M2K. The next ATLC is a good option but the PAF may be paranoid about letting the French expose their ELINT sensors on their Rafales and providing that intel to the Indians.

 

[Donatello]

It took two years for the IOC for the F-16 and three years from the block-1 to the block-15 for the F-16. It also launched its first AMRAAM before the F-15 the same year the Block-15s were delivered. It wasnt till 7 years later that the F-16 took its place with developed tactics in the USAF Arsenal. However, the F-16 is a model program as such and due to its scale enjoyed the benefits of a more wider resource based in tactics development and testing.

The JF-17 has already done DACT with all the PAF platforms.. and the Chinese Sukhois.. But it needs to go beyond the Chinese to other airforces where it can train with differing tactics on fighters such as the M2K. The next ATLC is a good option but the PAF may be paranoid about letting the French expose their ELINT sensors on their Rafales and providing that intel to the Indians.

How were the results of the JF-17 DACT missions against other assets in PAF?

Primarily, the MirageIII/V, F-7PG (Since it's very potent) and the F-16 (both mlu and non mlu) and as you said, the PLAAF Sukhois

If the results can be released or, perhaps a sketch of them, please do post here. Would be interesting to know where JF-17 stands.

 

[SQ8]

How were the results of the JF-17 DACT missions against other assets in PAF?

Primarily, the MirageIII/V, F-7PG (Since it's very potent) and the F-16 (both mlu and non mlu) and as you said, the PLAAF Sukhois

If the results can be released or, perhaps a sketch of them, please do post here. Would be interesting to know where JF-17 stands.

Damned if I know. The results are usually never declared unless one picks them up from the Grapevine. And usually certain results have to be taken with a pinch of salt; although there are differing reports. For e.g. the JF-17 is supposed to a favourable score against the F-16 in WVR but then the pilots flying the JF-17 were CCS grads with time on the F-16.. by contrast the F-16 pilots were a mix of rookies and flight leaders. It is a given that the JF-17 would have eaten the F-7P and Mirage for breakfast as the former is nothing more than manned SAM while the latter is a sitting duck in Air Combat.

 

[Donatello]

Damned if I know. The results are usually never declared unless one picks them up from the Grapevine. And usually certain results have to be taken with a pinch of salt; although there are differing reports. For e.g. the JF-17 is supposed to a favourable score against the F-16 in WVR but then the pilots flying the JF-17 were CCS grads with time on the F-16.. by contrast the F-16 pilots were a mix of rookies and flight leaders. It is a given that the JF-17 would have eaten the F-7P and Mirage for breakfast as the former is nothing more than manned SAM while the latter is a sitting duck in Air Combat.

Hmm, interesting way to put it.

 

[razgriz19]

IMG_5087 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[nomi007]

in his last interview butt sb said that jf-17 will refuel in air after the September 2013 but still no progress

 

[Meejee]

Still no exclusive video of JF-17??

 

[Liquidmetal]

Still no exclusive video of JF-17??

Really annoying. You spend millions developing a unique product, one that has much bang for the buck, OK it is not an F16 sufa, does not have conformals or aesa, however for the price, it has an amazing radar and avionics suite, a rugged engine with a good W/P ratio, an excellent man-machine interface, so easy to fly that the PAF just has to train the pilots on simulators and them straight to the JFT. Has an impressive weapon load and variety, includes targeting pods and ECM capabilities and we co-developed it and we produce it - so many pluses that this machine should be shown all over the world, there should be JFT videos coming out virtually every week to create a buzz, there should be JFTs painted in different colours to enhance it contours and make it look sleek and menancing and make it a star like the US has done with every machine it has ever flown. This is what you get when something as serious as marketing, sales and PR is left to the yes sirs no sirs.

 

[kaykay]

@Oscar sorry for a noob question but did PAF get any JF-17 block2 aircrafts as of now?? How many block2 and block3 will be produced in all?? also what 'enhanced features' they have which block1 haven't got(other than refueling pod afaik).