JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[farhan_9909]

I posted this before, but no response..

Jf-17 block 2 will expect how many hard points?

Old 7 hardpoints


though you can expect something like this
2 Sd-10 on one hardpoint

 

[razgriz19]

I posted this before, but no response..

Jf-17 block 2 will expect how many hard points?

same numbers, 7.

 

[[--Leo--]]

IF With same hardware points 7
IF with same radar with some upgrades
IF with RCS
IF with Same Engine RD-93
only additional is air refueling just that costing us 10 million dollars you can explain the word why?

 

[farhan_9909]

IF With same hardware points 7
IF with same radar with some upgrades
IF with RCS
IF with Same Engine RD-93
only additional is air refueling just that costing us 10 million dollars you can explain the word why?

More composite(composite is expansive)
HMD
bt they may only increase price by 2-3millions max

some senior member should comment about this

if apart from IFR,only tweaked avionics and NEW ECM.than why will the Block II cost 10millions USD more than basic JFT?

 

[SQ8]

IF With same hardware points 7
IF with same radar with some upgrades
IF with RCS
IF with Same Engine RD-93
only additional is air refueling just that costing us 10 million dollars you can explain the word why?

?? the addition is NOT costing us ten million dollars but the R&D for it does run close to a million with the additional equipment and structural additions costing another amount.
The R&D costs for the improvements in avionics is above a million dollars both in equipment and man hours.
The final cost per airframe that includes the R&D costs is around 15 million..
NOW...what aircraft gives you the following for 15 million?:

1. 8000 hour guaranteed lifecycle.
2. short field capability with full load (3 tanks + 4 missiles)
3. Multiple target BVR engagement capability
4. Ability to use all existing dumb weaponry with accuracy matching or exceeding those of the F-16 block-30.
5. Ability to use precision and guided A2G weapons including but not restricted to: GBU-12,LT-2GB,C-802,MAR-1 and more .
6. maintenance cost per 100 hours less than 1/5th that of the F-16 block-15.
7. Excellent maneuverability both at altitude and in low level flight that matches the F-16 block-15.
8. Complete glass cockpit with HOTAS and HMD that is NVG capable.
9. ECM suite that is capable of protecting aircraft in dense electronic environment.
10.Combat radius >400 km that can be extended with A2A refuelling.

So if you can find a brand spanking new fighter that can do all of that within that or even close to that price..Ill personally start calling the Thunder a mistake.

 

[[--Leo--]]

?? the addition is NOT costing us ten million dollars but the R&D for it does run close to a million with the additional equipment and structural additions costing another amount.
The R&D costs for the improvements in avionics is above a million dollars both in equipment and man hours.
The final cost per airframe that includes the R&D costs is around 15 million..
NOW...what aircraft gives you the following for 15 million?:

1. 8000 hour guaranteed lifecycle.
2. short field capability with full load (3 tanks + 4 missiles)
3. Multiple target BVR engagement capability
4. Ability to use all existing dumb weaponry with accuracy matching or exceeding those of the F-16 block-30.
5. Ability to use precision and guided A2G weapons including but not restricted to: GBU-12,LT-2GB,C-802,MAR-1 and more .
6. maintenance cost per 100 hours less than 1/5th that of the F-16 block-15.
7. Excellent maneuverability both at altitude and in low level flight that matches the F-16 block-15.
8. Complete glass cockpit with HOTAS and HMD that is NVG capable.
9. ECM suite that is capable of protecting aircraft in dense electronic environment.
10.Combat radius >400 km that can be extended with A2A refuelling.

So if you can find a brand spanking new fighter that can do all of that within that or even close to that price..Ill personally start calling the Thunder a mistake.

Listen man you telling these which is already included in Block 1 which cost 15 million what ever it is it doesn't matter
But what is new in there which cost 10 million $ that is huge amount for per unit .....
i see just some radar + avionics upgrade and air-refueling system this really cost that much because JF-17 block 1 is comparable with F-16 Block 52+ that is offically confirmed but the thing is they have already upgrade avionics in block 1 they are modifying more avionics they are not putting new 1s so these can cost about 5 million $ i can agree what about other 5 million $ . i was thinking that with new engine it could be possible but they are going with same 1s i wonder what would be the results
PAF offically said they are going to add 2 more hardware points thats is not happening
PAF was looking for AESA Radar selex gelio offered 1 AESA they reject and go with chines radar but not happening in JF-17 and Some says J-10A are the FC-20 but J-10A doesn't have AESA only J-10B have it if it wasn't for J-10 i throught i could be possibly for JF-17 but result negitive
Engine was the main issue reports come up in many forums pakistan could go with WS-13A which gives 100 KN issue solved they are not going with WS-13A or WS-13 for block 1

now for 2 years these news were on the forum were just rumor or we were made do discuss it all the day now few months remaining these news come up for the past 2 year there was nothing ever dam i m angry



Mod Comment:
please review your post

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Dear Leo you post doesnt make sense
Are you questioning the price or the possible upgrades in the current and future blocks?

Did you read carefully what Santro is saying? Just show any fighter that can do all the above 10 points for the cost/ price tag of JF-17 thunder.

Do think that price is unjustified? Do you think the performance of the avionics is below expectation for that price tag? It seems you started to write something but then forgot and switched to the ambiguity about the next blocks.

To get the perspective, first consider what aeroplanes are going to be replaced by JF-17, one you listed them down (Mirages, A5s and Mig21a) think about what all is being offered by single platform and by many fold in some cases and then leave it at that.

Don’t confuse the JF-17 future expectations with that of J-10. because J-10 with AESA and composites etc will be our high end fighter if and when we have finalised what we need and when we have resources for that. first lets replace our Migs and Mirages.

 

[ziaulislam]

one more thing..every year the cost of production increases by atleast 5% so you have to add about 20% increase in price tag that too.
if block 1 was approx around 20 million a piece so block 2 for 25 million means little increase to be honest

 

[Donatello]

?? the addition is NOT costing us ten million dollars but the R&D for it does run close to a million with the additional equipment and structural additions costing another amount.
The R&D costs for the improvements in avionics is above a million dollars both in equipment and man hours.
The final cost per airframe that includes the R&D costs is around 15 million..
NOW...what aircraft gives you the following for 15 million?:

1. 8000 hour guaranteed lifecycle.
2. short field capability with full load (3 tanks + 4 missiles)
3. Multiple target BVR engagement capability
4. Ability to use all existing dumb weaponry with accuracy matching or exceeding those of the F-16 block-30.
5. Ability to use precision and guided A2G weapons including but not restricted to: GBU-12,LT-2GB,C-802,MAR-1 and more .
6. maintenance cost per 100 hours less than 1/5th that of the F-16 block-15.
7. Excellent maneuverability both at altitude and in low level flight that matches the F-16 block-15.
8. Complete glass cockpit with HOTAS and HMD that is NVG capable.
9. ECM suite that is capable of protecting aircraft in dense electronic environment.
10.Combat radius >400 km that can be extended with A2A refuelling.

So if you can find a brand spanking new fighter that can do all of that within that or even close to that price..Ill personally start calling the Thunder a mistake.

Hi,

Combat Radius means that it can fly out 400km and fly back in 400km, right? And is that Hi-lo-HI flight path or the lo-hi-lo?

 

[abdulbarijan]

Well I guess what our friend LEO is trying to say is that

If we get all the capabilities that Santro mentions in a cost effective way (estimate price of $ 15 million) how can normal tweaks in avionics,IFR etc cause the prise to rise by a figure of
10 million $....

And I have the answer to that as well .... See we DONT know the price yet,how can we know the price before the thing is actually made....
However estimates can be made and I guess the estimates of the 25 million figure mark is considering some avionics upgrades,IFR,IRST and AESA like previously reported by many.....

However its too early to estimate....as most of us dont even know ....hope it helps

 

[SQ8]

Listen man you telling these which is already included in Block 1

Did you even read the first part of my post??
Because if you did, you would not be making this statement(at least somebody who knows engineering and manufacturing would not)

---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------

Well I guess what our friend LEO is trying to say is that

If we get all the capabilities that Santro mentions in a cost effective way (estimate price of $ 15 million) how can normal tweaks in avionics,IFR etc cause the prise to rise by a figure of
10 million $....

And I have the answer to that as well .... See we DONT know the price yet,how can we know the price before the thing is actually made....
However estimates can be made and I guess the estimates of the 25 million figure mark is considering some avionics upgrades,IFR,IRST and AESA like previously reported by many.....

However its too early to estimate....as most of us dont even know ....hope it helps

Please refer to the first part of my post...
Where did you get the estimate of 25 million from?

 

[Sapper]

1. 8000 hour guaranteed lifecycle.
2. short field capability with full load (3 tanks + 4 missiles)
3. Multiple target BVR engagement capability
4. Ability to use all existing dumb weaponry with accuracy matching or exceeding those of the F-16 block-30.
5. Ability to use precision and guided A2G weapons including but not restricted to: GBU-12,LT-2GB,C-802,MAR-1 and more .
6. maintenance cost per 100 hours less than 1/5th that of the F-16 block-15.
7. Excellent maneuverability both at altitude and in low level flight that matches the F-16 block-15.
8. Complete glass cockpit with HOTAS and HMD that is NVG capable.
9. ECM suite that is capable of protecting aircraft in dense electronic environment.
10.Combat radius >400 km that can be extended with A2A refuelling.

Dear,

In the interest of fairness, i must offer some factual corrections.

1. The Current proposed lifecycle expentancy of Airframe is 4000hrs without overhaul/mid-life-upgrade. For F16, it is 8000, after Falcon-Star, its 16000 in total.
6. Maintenance Cost is 1/3rd of F16-Bl15, not 1/5th.
10. Max Standard Combat radius is >1000km, 1100km for A2G (Med-Lo-Lo-Hi), and 1400km for A2A (Hi-Hi-Hi) , both with three x droptanks.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[SQ8]

Dear,

In the interest of fairness, i must offer some factual corrections.

1. The Current proposed lifecycle expentancy of Airframe is 4000hrs without overhaul/mid-life-upgrade. For F16, it is 8000, after Falcon-Star, its 16000 in total.
6. Maintenance Cost is 1/3rd of F16-Bl15, not 1/5th.
10. Max Standard Combat radius is >1000km, 1100km for A2G (Med-Lo-Lo-Hi), and 1400km for A2A (Hi-Hi-Hi) , both with three x droptanks.

Regards,
Sapper

Sir,

I quote word of mouth sources..

1. Potential life expectancy is to be 8000 hours.. the idea was to match the F-16. neither the PAC website, nor any of the public briefings quote life-cycle estimates. In fact the PAF derided the Sabre-II project specifically since it offered 4000 hours of service life over the F-16 yet cost more.

6. Cost is 1/5th.. this is not due to less consumption or less wear and tear.. rather the cost of procurement of spares and auxiliary equipment vis a vis the F-16.

10. I quoted non drop tank range from an earlier post of mine with comparison to the mig-29, you are correct that in wet configuration the combat radius is around 1000 km.

regards
Santro.

 

[fatman17]

so if the JFT is providing comparable capability = or more than F-16 Blk -15 - 30 - 40, then why persue the FC-20 whose performance is considered 'similar' by western analysts?

 

[KRAIT]

so if the JFT is providing comparable capability = or more than F-16 Blk -15 - 30 - 40, then why persue the FC-20 whose performance is considered 'similar' by western analysts?

To counter act Indian Super Sukhoi to be delieverd and MMRCA , both will have AESA radar, RAM (MKI-30 Super), advanced EW suit, enhanced BVR capability etc..... FC-20 will serve of time being and pakistan might get J-20 or get in jv with china in fgfa..later on