JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Qasibr]

Agreed with Santro. PAF is very much satisfied with RD-93 due to its high performance and an amazing response time that comes very handy in close encounters. The only option when available is WS-13 but it will remain an "option" for those who want it in their toys and this applies to PAF too.

PAF was certainly very satisfied to get the RD-93 engines, it was touch and go for a while with Indians trying really hard diplomatically, to prevent the Russians from selling these to us. But the situation might be a little different now. @Pshamim recently came up with some new info on this. Earlier, he was dismissive about us going for alternate engines for the JF-17 as well, but new information led him to believe PAF may actually be on the look-out to use a different engine(if&when it becomes available) for the hundreds of JF-17s to be made in the future. This is what @pshamim said:

The story keeps changing. Now they claim that based on the experience with the production of AL-222-25F, Ukraine is developing a new engines models. One of the model will have 44,ooo lbs thrust with the 2nd model with 22,000 lbs which will be more suitable for JF-17.

There have been problems with the RD-93 as stated in an earlier post. Additionally, Pakistan does not want to take chances with Russians. China still wants the WS-13 to be the main engine but have joined hands with PAF in looking at the Ukrainian option.

Keep tuned
PShamim - JF-17 Related Discussion - PakDef

I'm guessing that it might have something to do with our brand-new JF-17 that crashed before it even got inducted, if it was due to an engine mishap. Now, engine problems occur on pretty much every aircraft, but IF those engine problems are occuring due to bad quality-control on the manufacturer's part, it would be a different story. I know RD-93 has it's merits, even western sources appreciate it's simple, modular design, but Russian manufacturing is known to have dipped in many areas, and maintaining quality-control while mass manufacturing a turbofan is very challenging.

So perhaps we won't stick with the RD-93 all the way, if what @pshamim says is accurate and the PAF is indeed interested in other options. And you have also talked about other options on the table as well. Remembering how there was a time when RD-93 was the only engine available for JF-17 and even RD-93's availability was in doubt, it's quiet nice that now we have three parrallel engine programmes targetting the JF-17(WS-13A, AL-222, and RD-93). In the long run, when the JF-17 competes against Russian aircraft, in international tenders, it's good that we have other non-Russian options.

 

[Bratva]

Lot of insider news of jf-17 is not turning to be accurate. Like aesa, irst, etc etc for block 2 was not proven true and we are heaing for irst and HMD on block 2 since late 2009 which will not be on block 2 . Like wise in ideas 2008 we seen a retractable sweedish IFR for JF-17 and was hopeful it will be on block-1 which was not and surprised me a alot.

Whats the benefit of manufacturing low cast airplane which just fire bvr missiles and have a fixed ifr which increases rcs btw and do not have HOBOS missiles and HMD to fire it or any IRST. . . instead of keeping low cost plane why not add some of these features to keep pace with the latest acquisitons of IAF.

Block 2 will have data link capability, a fixed IFR and some upgraded avionics as per official PAC JF-17 production team press release which again means Block 1 has very limited data link or no data link capability at all or else why mention data link capability on block 2 specifically? Why not mention then when they start producing block 1 ?

It creates a impression wheather due to lack of funds and money, many upgrades planned on block 2 were cancelled or insiders who fed info to outsiders were just a smock screen to create confusion out there

Then there is SD-10B issue which remains a myth up to date like the myth created of J-10 coming in december 2011 in Pakistan. Seeing is believe now, and i hate PAF keep guessing game, when same info is leaked out by insiders, then why they cant officially tell them? Like radar range, whats the problem in telling if chinese awac is fully aesa radar or combination of pesa and aesa. Whats the problem in officially disclosing full specs of block 2 of what kind of upgraded avionics you are talking about.

 

[regular]

I agree with U ...We are still living withtin the world of fantasies and delusions.....

 

[Pfpilot]

Common, we aren't giving the jf-17 a fair chance. Relative to the f-7s and Mirages it is replacing, the Thunder is a massive leap in capabilities. It is doing what it was meant to do, provide a low cost replacement for the wide majority of our aging fleet. Expecting a 4.5 generation aircraft is not only illogical, but was never part of the intent of the aircraft.
While rapid advancement in Chinese technology may allow us to end up with an aircraft that somewhat approaches the newer fighters in the world, it will never be the answer to the Eurofighters and Sukhois. Many Pakistanis have such a heightened view of the PAF capabilities that they expect us to go toe to toe with air forces with far greater resources. That is just not realistic; the Jf-17 does very well what it was designed to do...we can disagree with the direction taken by the PAF in going ahead with the Jf-17 in the first place, but not in the incremental upgrades provided to the aircraft. If we want a low cost aircraft, we must accept there will some limitations to it's capabilities.
The limited resources of the PAF as a result of chronic economic decay are, at the least, the medium term ground realities of our nation. We simply cannot buy our way out of obsolescence, it is a slow and arduous process, made worse when we start comparing it with our neighbor to the east...which has far greater options and resources at hand.

 

[Pak47]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
USAF F-18 pilots checking out our bird! They seem impressed.

 

[raavan]

is chinese air force using JF-17 AS WELL?

 

[Pak47]

is chinese air force using JF-17 AS WELL?

I believe eventually they will, but if not oh well.. for the thunder was designed for the PAF and has many other export opportunities

 

[atlantis_cn]

Lot of insider news of jf-17 is not turning to be accurate. Like aesa, irst, etc etc for block 2 was not proven true and we are heaing for irst and HMD on block 2 since late 2009 which will not be on block 2 . Like wise in ideas 2008 we seen a retractable sweedish IFR for JF-17 and was hopeful it will be on block-1 which was not and surprised me a alot.

Whats the benefit of manufacturing low cast airplane which just fire bvr missiles and have a fixed ifr which increases rcs btw and do not have HOBOS missiles and HMD to fire it or any IRST. . . instead of keeping low cost plane why not add some of these features to keep pace with the latest acquisitons of IAF.

Block 2 will have data link capability, a fixed IFR and some upgraded avionics as per official PAC JF-17 production team press release which again means Block 1 has very limited data link or no data link capability at all or else why mention data link capability on block 2 specifically? Why not mention then when they start producing block 1 ?

It creates a impression wheather due to lack of funds and money, many upgrades planned on block 2 were cancelled or insiders who fed info to outsiders were just a smock screen to create confusion out there

Then there is SD-10B issue which remains a myth up to date like the myth created of J-10 coming in december 2011 in Pakistan. Seeing is believe now, and i hate PAF keep guessing game, when same info is leaked out by insiders, then why they cant officially tell them? Like radar range, whats the problem in telling if chinese awac is fully aesa radar or combination of pesa and aesa. Whats the problem in officially disclosing full specs of block 2 of what kind of upgraded avionics you are talking about.

Please do not read any piece of rumor and then to believe it, especially when you have a very pessimistic personality.

 

[Nishan_101]

Although I am quite happy with the JF-17 program but still they can do much better than that, like they can use composite in the final prototype-6 construction which will going to reduce weight and increase life as well as make it a bit stealthy as well. Other than that they should incorporate in-flight re-fueling probe(retractable one like on typhoons) as well make some empty space for FLIR and try to use RD-93B(RD-33MKK2). This will surely makes a big difference and after its successful flight testing they should concentrate on its dual seat version which will not only good for PAF AJTs role but also for selling in foreign markets as well, although I know that JF-17 is the most pilot friendly aircraft in the world but still others would have to learn to fly.

 

[Pak47]

Although I am quite happy with the JF-17 program but still they can do much better than that, like they can use composite in the final prototype-6 construction which will going to reduce weight and increase life as well as make it a bit stealthy as well. Other than that they should incorporate in-flight re-fueling probe(retractable one like on typhoons) as well make some empty space for FLIR and try to use RD-93B(RD-33MKK2). This will surely makes a big difference and after its successful flight testing they should concentrate on its dual seat version which will not only good for PAF AJTs role but also for selling in foreign markets as well, although I know that JF-17 is the most pilot friendly aircraft in the world but still others would have to learn to fly.

a bit of research on JFT is needed for you.

 

[Edevelop]

Although I am quite happy with the JF-17 program but still they can do much better than that, like they can use composite in the final prototype-6 construction which will going to reduce weight and increase life as well as make it a bit stealthy as well. Other than that they should incorporate in-flight re-fueling probe(retractable one like on typhoons) as well make some empty space for FLIR and try to use RD-93B(RD-33MKK2). This will surely makes a big difference and after its successful flight testing they should concentrate on its dual seat version which will not only good for PAF AJTs role but also for selling in foreign markets as well, although I know that JF-17 is the most pilot friendly aircraft in the world but still others would have to learn to fly.

I think the use of composites will definitely be used. Most likely in the future. Pakistan have basically used Chinese and American technology to create this aircraft. Now that we have F-16 blk 52s (with composite use) in service, we will surely see it's tech being copied on to JF-17. Some may argue that Americans are keeping an eye on them. But my answer to them is, IT WILL NOT BE FOR LONG.

I don't think JF-17 was made to just replace PAF's older aircrafts. I mean it was thought to follow that logic before; but now we are seeing DSI intakes, 4.5 generation avionics, AESA radar (coming in soon). If all this is being incorporated then surely there should be no problem, trying to make it stealthier. We will have something called "J2-X"

Try doing a little more research. The 2 seat development has begun by the way. It will be in Block III...

 

[Nishan_101]

I think the use of composites will definitely be used. Most likely in the future. Pakistan have basically used Chinese and American technology to create this aircraft. Now that we have F-16 blk 52s (with composite use) in service, we will surely see it's tech being copied on to JF-17. Some may argue that Americans are keeping an eye on them. But my answer to them is, IT WILL NOT BE FOR LONG.

I don't think JF-17 was made to just replace PAF's older aircrafts. I mean it was thought to follow that logic before; but now we are seeing DSI intakes, 4.5 generation avionics, AESA radar (coming in soon). If all this is being incorporated then surely there should be no problem, trying to make it stealthier. We will have something called "J2-X"

Try doing a little more research. The 2 seat development has begun by the way. It will be in Block III...

Thanks for replying. I think the composite technology is known by Pakistan like the Indians have as we have make used of it in our Cruise Missiles and in the construction of J-10 the Chinese have make use of it, so my suggestion was that in the PT-6 JF-17 they can incorporate to reduce the weight as well as increase its life.

 

[Pak47]

I think the use of composites will definitely be used. Most likely in the future. Pakistan have basically used Chinese and American technology to create this aircraft. Now that we have F-16 blk 52s (with composite use) in service, we will surely see it's tech being copied on to JF-17. Some may argue that Americans are keeping an eye on them. But my answer to them is, IT WILL NOT BE FOR LONG.

I don't think JF-17 was made to just replace PAF's older aircrafts. I mean it was thought to follow that logic before; but now we are seeing DSI intakes, 4.5 generation avionics, AESA radar (coming in soon). If all this is being incorporated then surely there should be no problem, trying to make it stealthier. We will have something called "J2-X"

Try doing a little more research. The 2 seat development has begun by the way. It will be in Block III...

>.> you realize.. block 1 has composite usage of about 8 % already right.. and block 2 will see around 30..

 

[Edevelop]

>.> you realize.. block 1 has composite usage of about 8 % already right.. and block 2 will see around 30..

Well i don't know about this. In fact i can't find any source that says this. As far as block 2 is concerned, there have been rumours that it will be using composites or more composites according to you.

While a lot of people say that blk 2 will have IRST, and etc.... I don't really believe that unless there is proof to it. People have been saying that blk 2 will start production in July 2012 but before i can believe that i would want to see pics of the prototypes.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Jf-17XL..

Military Photos and Photoshops: Jf-17E Block 3 : Thunder XL

Give it 10 on looks , I wonder if it would fly