JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[ghilzai]

Sorry mani i am referring to these illustrations that were posted a few pages back, the avid ones.

I have not seen a jf17 with 9 hardpoints, merely referring to earlier posts.

Thanks.

 

[Dazzler]

H. Khan stated one chin hardpoint added ( under the right side intake for targeting pod etc.) in blk 2, considering the accuracy of his predictions in the past, i believe him for now.

Despite 200% stress testing, it may be too optimistic to consider the addition of 2 under wing hardpoints in blk 2 but its all a guess, OTH, huitong believes otherwise!

 

[Viper0011.]

Dude are you nuts. You mean a fighter made of aluminium body, 105 km radar range for 5m2 target, with 3.5 ton payload and not up to the mark avionics, old age EW suite, higher RCS area, lower max speed of Mach 1.6 and much more is comparable to EFT and RAFALE.

???? Did you even READ the post? Man, what is wrong with the Indian community??? Seems like EVERY other person has ADHD Either you guys don't read stuff or out of jealousy, you guys discredit everything about Pakistan. 1: FC-20 ISN'T made out of allow and such!!!! It's a stolen design from the Israeli's and the Europeans (EFT)!!! So it already has top notch characteristics. Just need time to advance its capability to be on par with EFT's. This is assessments coming from very reputable Western intelligence resources.
2: Even with its aluminum / alloy airframe, (if you were referring to JFT), it'll defend Pakistan's airspace very well. Including against the Su-30 (it'll always be in a defensive role). So instead of having cramps in your stomach, try to accept the reality and not just discredit posts about Pakistan / it's military out of jealousy. You guys act childish and like a second girl friend who finds out about the first one, in Pakistan's case. Let's have somewhat of a more productive discussion please?

 

[Anony]

???? Did you even READ the post? Man, what is wrong with the Indian community??? Seems like EVERY other person has ADHD Either you guys don't read stuff or out of jealousy, you guys discredit everything about Pakistan. 1: FC-20 ISN'T made out of allow and such!!!! It's a stolen design from the Israeli's and the Europeans (EFT)!!! So it already has top notch characteristics. Just need time to advance its capability to be on par with EFT's. This is assessments coming from very reputable Western intelligence resources.
2: Even with its aluminum / alloy airframe, (if you were referring to JFT), it'll defend Pakistan's airspace very well. Including against the Su-30 (it'll always be in a defensive role). So instead of having cramps in your stomach, try to accept the reality and not just discredit posts about Pakistan / it's military out of jealousy. You guys act childish and like a second girl friend who finds out about the first one, in Pakistan's case. Let's have somewhat of a more productive discussion please?

Stop talking about our mentality and start reading the full discussion and not just a single post. I never said JF-17 is a crap, I said instead of high value product of J-10 Pakistan can modify JF-17 with already mention updates and still it will be cheaper than J-10 and never any saction will be impose on it as it is a JFT as it has been with F-16.

 

[Anony]

I can also quote the capabilities of an aircraft from multiple sources taking the ones that are lower to down play its capabilities .... but then again im not you so I wont do it ....


Aluminium body - Ask think tanks who are on quote reporting that composites have started to be incorporated in the airframe of JF-17, however since you insist even your own vayu sena tripod website quotes the MKI composite usage to be about 6%. SO that makes it a crappy jet??

But since ive been noticing your posts, you said it in terms of RCS, so heck why dont you consider

-DSI intakes (used in F-35/J-20/J-31 and J-10B)
-Curved intakes
-RAM paint
-Small size of the JFT

all into account before you go start and shoving BR crap down people's throats ...


-Secondly, 105 Km for 5m2 radar is a modest range,infact its directly comparable to the APG-68 series in AA modes, if you have been doing some research you would have known the recent update from kanwa news quoting PAF's Javaid Ahmed reported KLJ-07 having 130 odd KM range for 5m2. (that is better than the radars onboard the SAAB Gripen C/D speaking in terms of range)

-3.5 T payload .... First of all tell us what payload do you want from a light weight classed fighter?? anyways check the presentation of Mr Yaing weing the director of the project saying it has around 4 tonnes of payload.

-1.6 mach .. check the zhuhai release ..quoted to be 1.8 Mach.

-Avionics
Not up to the mark ?? Who told you that kiddo ??
Read the posts of TT and other people with better knowledge quoting avionics to be on par with the F-16 B 40 etc (that too is being modest)



-Old age EW suite

Since you are such an ignorant brat here lemme just show you a little reality before you open your ignorant mouth again ...

THESE ARE JUST LITTLE BITS, GO TO JF-17 INFO POOL AND DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU WASTE EVERY ONES TIME AND ENERGY ON POSTING JUST HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE...

Nice post dude but can you provide a single official link where it is mention that JF-17 has reached Mach 1.8 . It never has. Mach 1.8 is the proposed speed but with RD- 93k engine it can't attain that speed, though it's airframe is capable of holding that pressure. May be with another engine producing higher thrust it may attain that speed. This case is similar to LCA where proposed speed is Mach 1.8 but that can't be achieve with FE - 404 engine but need FE 414IN6 engine.

Radar range is 135 km for sea based targets and not aerial targets. It's still 105km for 5m2 size target. And if you say otherwise give official link and make sure that is not a link of another member writing on PDF.

Yes Su 30 mki has only 6%-8% composite and that's why it's RCS is close to 10m2. But it has radar capable enough of tracking target of RCS 1m2 from way over 100km and 5m2 target from more than 250km and sea borne target from 350 km. In addition to that it has latest EW war-suite and super maneuverability and agility faetures to overcome that drawback.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Nice post dude but can you provide a single official link where it is mention that JF-17 has reached Mach 1.8 . It never has. Mach 1.8 is the proposed speed but with RD- 93k engine it can't attain that speed, though it's airframe is capable of holding that pressure. May be with another engine producing higher thrust it may attain that speed. This case is similar to LCA where proposed speed is Mach 1.8 but that can't be achieve with FE - 404 engine but need FE 414IN6 engine.

As Robert De Niro in his movie "heat" said

" You know there is a flip side to that coin...."

Similarly here ... before you come around yapping about bla bla bla bla bla .... Do some research yourself... for example

What you be courteous enough to provide a link to us saying JF-17 never reached 1.8 Mach ??


Of course...you dont have one ... but in the unlikely event that you do it would be most likely some defence expert wanna be's or maybe website or charts that have not been updated or simply Indian experts..that are focused to downplay the capabilities of JF-17, to make sure you guys can sleep through the night ....


I have already posted the Izmir chart for you which was given BY PAC/PAF and put along the static display JF-17's in Izmir 2011, which BTW happens to be an airshow of an International level... but if thats not enough for you how about janes magazine ....

Radar range is 135 km for sea based targets and not aerial targets. It's still 105km for 5m2 size target. And if you say otherwise give official link and make sure that is not a link of another member writing on PDF.

I quoted Kanwa news who in turn quoted PAF's Javaid ahmed, who just happens to be Chief Project Director of JF-17 from the Pakistani side, I dont know what else qualifies as official if this does not ....

Kanwa had an interview with PAF's General Javaid Ahmed, during which he stated that:
- In 2012, they will be bring out the JF17 Blk 2. The main improvements are the addition of IFR, the development of a twin seat version, adding datalink and development of an export version JF17.
- happy with the performance of the KJL7, so no immediate plans to switch to AESA (KJL7 specs: detection range for fighter sized target 130km; can track 16 targets and engage 2 at the same time; have SAR mapping capability)
- The Chinese indigenous engine is currently undergoing flight testing and may be a while before it is fitted to a JF17
- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons.
translation credits -Plawolf

Yes Su 30 mki has only 6%-8% composite and that's why it's RCS is close to 10m2. But it has radar capable enough of tracking target of RCS 1m2 from way over 100km and 5m2 target from more than 250km and sea borne target from 350 km. In addition to that it has latest EW war-suite and super maneuverability and agility faetures to overcome that drawback.

Firstly RCS does not entirely depend on the material ...

just take a look at the size, total engine fan blade exposure, the huge payload that hikes RCS to a higher point, the normal flanker family float in between 12-15 m2 RCS in clean configuration last I heard the RCS disclosed of SU-30 MKI was 20m2.

According to an MoD official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter
Broadsword: India, Russia close to agreement on next generation fighter


Now lets come to the radar, sure BARS is one heck of a power house but according to your own vayu sena tripod

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of detecting Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. The radar can track 20 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously (this capability was introduced in the Indian RC1 and RC2). These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. For comparison, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP says.

Or if you wanna take AERO India 2011 chart it is stated at 135 KM

By that A bars may end up looking at a 3m2 RCS at about

123 KM (IF VAYU SENA TRIPOD IS TAKEN AS TRUE)
118 KM (IF AERO INDIA 2011 chart is taken as true)



We all know what good the TVC etc is as shown in red flag 2008, plus what do you say about the IR signature that two powerful engines would emit while not being encased in the fuselage, or the massive size contributing to easy visual for the pilots etc, we all know MKI is good but its not invincible like you guys like to portray.


SO BEFORE YOU GO YAPPING AGAIN, STOP AND RESEARCH .....

 

[Bratva]

H. Khan stated one chin hardpoint added ( under the right side intake for targeting pod etc.) in blk 2, considering the accuracy of his predictions in the past, i believe him for now.

Despite 200% stress testing, it may be too optimistic to consider the addition of 2 under wing hardpoints in blk 2 but its all a guess, OTH, huitong believes otherwise!

What huitong believes?

 

[Dazzler]

folks, i may be getting old or whatever, but this evening around 7 pm, saw a jf-17 coming from a strange route, from Baluchistan direction (over the pahaari region) going towards Masroor AB.

Will Masroor house the third squadron?

Hmmm..

 

[Dazzler]

What huitong believes?

Below..

The first taxi test of FC-1 powered by an indigenous WS-13 took place on March 18, 2010. A further improved version (JF-17A/JF-17 Block 2?) featuring an AESA radar, IRST and IFR probe has been proposed and is likely to be under development as well. The latest news (December 2012) suggested that Sri Lanka plans to acquire 6 JF-17s starting in 2013.

Chinese Military Aviation: Fighters II

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

folks, i may be getting old or whatever, but this evening around 7 pm, saw a jf-17 coming from a strange route, from Baluchistan direction (over the pahaari region) going towards Masroor AB.

Will Masroor house the third squadron?

Hmmm..

May be its something to do with current anti-terrorist operation in Awaran, Balochistan.

 

[Dazzler]

May be its something to do with current anti-terrorist operation in Awaran, Balochistan.

If so, why was it going to Masroor? There are no JFTs @ Masroor or Faisal as of now.

 

[Bratva]

Below..

The first taxi test of FC-1 powered by an indigenous WS-13 took place on March 18, 2010. A further improved version (JF-17A/JF-17 Block 2?) featuring an AESA radar, IRST and IFR probe has been proposed and is likely to be under development as well. The latest news (December 2012) suggested that Sri Lanka plans to acquire 6 JF-17s starting in 2013.

Chinese Military Aviation: Fighters II

proposed and likely under developments is the key words here. There is no question of AESA and IRST and IFR and extra hardpoint with current RD-93. All things together on JF-17 subjects to a high thrust engine and a high thrust engine depends upon PAF funds availability and if Russia allows upgraded RD-93 to be re exported to PAF or WS-13 becomes ready and all this scenario points towards block 3. And perhaps by 2016 PAF funding problems still remain same and we have to good bye all these goodies. So nothing is definitive.

 

[Hasnain2009]

Or if you wanna take AERO India 2011 chart it is stated at 135 KM

By that A bars may end up looking at a 3m2 RCS at about

123 KM (IF VAYU SENA TRIPOD IS TAKEN AS TRUE)
118 KM (IF AERO INDIA 2011 chart is taken as true)

That means JFT will detect MKI at around 150+km distance while MKI will not detect JFT at distance above 80km-100km.
And already knew the RCS of JFT, someone told me that RCS of JFT is half of F16.

 

[sancho]

Otherwise overloading a small plane with unnecessary waeapons compromises both performance and longevity. With multiple ejector racks a 4+2 combination is more than enoungh for most encounters in the sub continent arena.

That's not correct, since you only look at the A2A configuration and even here, additional hardpoints are better that draggy twin pylons, especially when you get into WVR combats.
More important are 2 additional wingstations, to make JF 17 to 4th gen fighter with credible self defence capabilities, because currently it can carry only fuel tanks, bombs and 2 x IR missiles, but no BVR missiles! Twin pylons are of no use in this case, since the hardpoint for them is occupied by the A2G weapon:

In any configuration where range is important and 2 fuel tanks have to be carried, the current hardpoint layout restrics JF 17 to IR missiles only, that in return requires additional fighters in A2A config as escorts, which is not usual for modern fighters anymore.
The pod station is a downside too, but only for configurations where laser guidance is required.

So if the graphics are correct and the block 2 gets not only a pod station, but also 2 winstations, it would be an important step forward in JF 17s weapon layout, even better than J10B!

Just to point this out, not in any relations to Anonys posts.

And already knew the RCS of JFT, someone told me that RCS of JFT is half of F16.

Apart from that, the point is as usual which F16s? Most likely of the Block 15s without any special coatings and as we heared from several Pakistani senior members, JF 17 so far has no coatings either. So it might have a lower RCS than the older F16s, due to it's smaller size possibly, but not compared to the F16 B52s or comparable modern designs with RCS reductions.

 

[farhan_9909]

i don't think apart from one pod station another hardpoint is expected in jft kind of small fighter..

4 hardpoint should be made capable of taking twin bombs/bvr

(2-3 and 5-6 hardpoints)