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Hi,
See----see what the deployment of 18 BLK 52's have done----now can you imagine if the paf had gone for a 100 of these in 2002 and asked delivery within 2---3 years on fast track----.
We would have had a peace deal with india by now---. That is what a major weapons purchase has to do---amraam 120 is a game changer.
Paf fcuked up at that time----its analysis stated that the peace deal with india is inevitable---that is why no reason to waste the money.
The stupid didnot realize that it was due to the open fighter aircraft market for pakistan, that india realized, it is futile to keep on fighting pakistan---because paf will be back at full strength---but when they saw paf faltering being wishy washy, india went back to doing what it does.
In war timing is every thing----. Napoleon lost his major battle because his flank delayed its onslaught by one minute---when you lose your moment---you lose your battles.
JF 17 still doesnot have a BVR in 2012---it will be another 3--5 years from now. If paf had played its hand right---we would have had BLK 52's and aim 120's between 2004---2006---.
Throug out all this discussion---I see that you people ave no concept of TIME.
Don't talk nonsense here.
China has acquired Russian engines to the amount of $500 million - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM
123 is not a small number by any imagination.... I can name at least half a dozen Russian Engines.. like.
Al-41
Al-31FN-M2/3
Item 117
Al-31FN
Item 117C
Item 129
Type 30
RD-33
Which China can only dream of.. even the 1st PTs of J-10B and J-11B flew with Russian Al-31FN engines.. what are you trying to prove here.... the PAF going for RD-93 over WS-13 Itself shows the status of Chinese turbofan industry.
RD-93 was being stopped from sale by Russia due to Indian lobbying in peace time.. now with the poor TBO... and servicebility issues due you expect the Russians to do the same in case of a war with India.
In IAF they keep spare RD-33 engines since its TBO is very low at 500 hours and the Mig 29 is designed as such that they change the whole engine in no time.... can PAF be assured of RD-93 supplies in war time so that say all 100 or so JF-17s are flying without any issues of spare engines or engine parts... or an over haul facility where they can repair engine without Russian help.
123 is not that big either .... by looking at the number of platforms it will be used on J-10A, J-11, Spares, J-15 etc.
Sir, sustaining supplies of engines in event of war is agreed by China and it's China with who we developed JFT not Russia and if Russians have no problem with Pakistan getting J-10 with Al-31F then what are you trying to prove here?
Sir,
God almighty---you are thick---not all defence deals are made with absorbing technical knowledge right away---a lots of major defence deals are made for FORCE PROJECTION---getting the populace emotionally involved in the item in question---changing the mindset of the populace---changing the image of america in pakistan.
Khudaya---who needs enemies for pakistan when it own children are chopping up the roots------have you people seen the weapons purchase by the middle east nations.
PAF has fooled itself and fooled the nation in keeping by the idea of minimum deterence. Minimum deterences have never worked.
Have you put any technical post yet---with your own analysis---why it was such and how should it be----.
Anybody over here thinks---that if we had 2 sqdrn's of F16's sitting on our tarmacs within 3 to 6 months of us giving bases to the u s---you would have thought of the americans differently---or how how 2-3 sqdrn's of F18's shoved down our throats by the americans in the first two years.
I haven't said it recently---but here it is again---there are two fools joined at the hips in this relationship---one is pakistan---but an equally bigger fool is the americans---.
Pakistan cannot tell what is good for it even if its life depends on it----the americans get into ' I am stupid mode ' when they deal with pakistan.
Hi,
See----see what the deployment of 18 BLK 52's have done----now can you imagine if the paf had gone for a 100 of these in 2002 and asked delivery within 2---3 years on fast track----.
We would have had a peace deal with india by now---. That is what a major weapons purchase has to do---amraam 120 is a game changer.
Paf fcuked up at that time----its analysis stated that the peace deal with india is inevitable---that is why no reason to waste the money.
The stupid didnot realize that it was due to the open fighter aircraft market for pakistan, that india realized, it is futile to keep on fighting pakistan---because paf will be back at full strength---but when they saw paf faltering being wishy washy, india went back to doing what it does.
In war timing is every thing----. Napoleon lost his major battle because his flank delayed its onslaught by one minute---when you lose your moment---you lose your battles.
JF 17 still doesnot have a BVR in 2012---it will be another 3--5 years from now. If paf had played its hand right---we would have had BLK 52's and aim 120's between 2004---2006---.
Through out all this discussion---I see that you people ave no concept of TIME.
Older planes have separate order being met.. this is a new order of 123 engines to be supplied until 2013 for new J-10 weather it would be J-10A/B is another issue.
J-11 uses WS-10 as said by Chinese members and J-15 is still in PT stages.
Where would China sustain the supplies If its blocked by Russia... In past Russians have blocked the supply.. what would China do If they do it again in future... and in worst case during conflicts with PAF highly dependent on JF-17.
Lets limit this to JF-17 and RD-93... J-10 is a another story.
Don't talk nonsense here.
China has acquired Russian engines to the amount of $500 million - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM
123 is not a small number by any imagination.... I can name at least half a dozen Russian Engines.. like.
Al-41
Al-31FN-M2/3
Item 117
Al-31FN
Item 117C
Item 129
Type 30
RD-33
Which China can only dream of.. even the 1st PTs of J-10B and J-11B flew with Russian Al-31FN engines.. what are you trying to prove here.... the PAF going for RD-93 over WS-13 Itself shows the status of Chinese turbofan industry.
RD-93 was being stopped from sale by Russia due to Indian lobbying in peace time.. now with the poor TBO... and servicebility issues due you expect the Russians to do the same in case of a war with India.
In IAF they keep spare RD-33 engines since its TBO is very low at 500 hours and the Mig 29 is designed as such that they change the whole engine in no time.... can PAF be assured of RD-93 supplies in war time so that say all 100 or so JF-17s are flying without any issues of spare engines or engine parts... or an over haul facility where they can repair engine without Russian help.
No, different dimension and different weight. The dimension different is so great , u need to redesign JF-17 into J-10.Just a quick question. Can Al-31 engine be fitted to JF-17??
correct !!!!Look at what india has done---tried to close the door by going with Rafale----taking away the french submarine deal and the jf17 weapons and electronic package plus delaying our jf 17 program by another 5 years---.
Older planes have separate order being met.. this is a new order of 123 engines to be supplied until 2013 for new J-10 weather it would be J-10A/B is another issue.
J-11 uses WS-10 as said by Chinese members and J-15 is still in PT stages.
Where would China sustain the supplies If its blocked by Russia... In past Russians have blocked the supply.. what would China do If they do it again in future... and in worst case during conflicts with PAF highly dependent on JF-17.
Lets limit this to JF-17 and RD-93... J-10 is a another story.
Do you know how much 100 F-16 BLOCK 52's would cost? - even if the U.S. was willing to supply them in 2002 which they were not --- $10-12 billion. On June 15th 2002 Pakistans total foriegn exchange reserves hit a high point of $6 billion. Even if they handed over all their foriegn reserves and went bankrupt who was going to pay the remaining $6 billion??? Also 100 F-16'Ss in 2/3 years fast track?? Theres this thing called an order book and production schedule - they don't just drop everything and start churning out PAF f-16's, and you think others have no concept of time?? I'll let other members decide whether it was PAF that was 'stupid' for not getting 100 F-16's in 2002
jf-17 Pt-04 has been pictured in China carrying the SD-10 in test flights. You think that completion of testing of an in service misile on an in service fighter will take 3-5 years???
Do you know how much 100 F-16 BLOCK 52's would cost? - even if the U.S. was willing to supply them in 2002 which they were not --- $10-12 billion. On June 15th 2002 Pakistans total foriegn exchange reserves hit a high point of $6 billion. Even if they handed over all their foriegn reserves and went bankrupt who was going to pay the remaining $6 billion??? Also 100 F-16'Ss in 2/3 years fast track?? Theres this thing called an order book and production schedule - they don't just drop everything and start churning out PAF f-16's, and you think others have no concept of time?? I'll let other members decide whether it was PAF that was 'stupid' for not getting 100 F-16's in 2002
jf-17 Pt-04 has been pictured in China carrying the SD-10 in test flights. You think that completion of testing of an in service misile on an in service fighter will take 3-5 years???