JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[SQ8]

Mastan you have discounted the fact that the F-104 was nothing better than an interceptor and as history has shown it was pretty shoddy in anything except a high speed missile run. More of a deterrence weapon than anything else. The F-86 too spent a lot of its time low down so Im not following you here. The gnat was a maneuverable plane with a small profile. But overrated in its role against the sabre.
Today the MKI is not just your high altitude interceptor, it is a fairly agile close in dogfighter with weapons to match. Ground clutter was an issue that plagued radars till the 90's. But since then a lot has improved. The Serbs found that out when they ran at deck level in the mountains of Bosnia only to be blown to smithereens by Amraams. The only possible way to avoid a long range shot is to fly tight circles behind a large obstacle such as a mountain. and hope the enemy takes the bait and meet you on your own terms. Last I checked we don't have too many high obstacles facing us in the east.
The low low flying style adopted by PAF is specifically for its strike formations to evade radar. The IAF has a similar tactic for its strike formations. However as far as CAPs are concerned they are usually flown at mid to high altitude to provide maximum coverage for the now standard "look down shoot down" radar.
The JF-17's capabilities are all debatable till its sold to another customer and the capabilities are exposed. Till then, its the usual known unknowns and unknown knowns that really cant be used for a judgment.
case in point;the Mig-25. For years it was speculated it was some super fighter that could turn on a dime till they actually saw one up close and its limited potential.
The same could be said for the Jf-17, right now we don't really know what it does and does not do apart from the little trickles coming in from sources here and there and Mr Warnes "yaarana" with the PAF leadership.(And I still maintain for every other member[not for you mastan, just general ranting], please screw wikipedia as a source for everything here, its an open encyclopedia, which means every other idiot with a PC can write to them and edit an article or fill it with biased bullshit).
The fact is there are a lot of things that surprise us about the PAF, the fact that the PG's are BVR capable and pilots are trained to take BVR shots. That now we have a fairly potent stand off capability against all sorts of targets.
And that while it did not work out due to a lack of funds, we were 70% there on a simulator capable of using nerve inputs to recreate sensations of G's and inertia for the F-16.

Now I do agree and support every person's right to ask the question and we should if we are to be qualified as anything more than a stupid population.
But, if the answer is in danger of compromising our information to our perceived enemy is it still prudent to let it out?. Considering our erstwhile neighbor cannot stand anything less than complete superiority over us in the military sphere, what if the answer to a stinging question makes them(the enemy) worry about losing their edge and they start buying even more arms and further escalate the arms race?. Or what if the answer blows their fears away and they decide that it is now possible to take military action on the slightest whim since we cant stand up to them?.

But please don't stop asking questions, its these questions that lets the military know that it too is accountable in its moves to the people. And also makes them work to end the divide created by the Islamic dictator's regime between the military and civil society. Just don't get disappointed too much if the answer doesn't come around the first time where our military hardware is concerned.

 

[MastanKhan]

Santro,

I was just trying to show my 'kinder' side---. Maybe---I didnot see what the paf was trying to show---so I wrote what I did---lest I had missed anything in my earlier posts---give it the benefit of doubt.

But you very kindly set me back on the right track again.

The F 86 was indeed a high altitude interceptor---but what can you do if the enemy fighter interceptors come at you at a lower altitude---you got to fight them where they are.

 

[iPhone]

Hi,



Now what does that mean for an ordinary man---any ordinary pakistani---. The ordinary pakistani has a right ot ask questions---. The questions will follow.

starting with, when will load shedding end, when will economic inflation end, when will law and order situation stabilize, when will their leader think of the nation first, when will they get good and affordable health and medical assistance, when will their children get good education or any education etc and oh yeah, when will JF 17 get it's BVR capabilities.

 

[BATMAN]

Funny it is---the roles have switched---in the 60's---we had hgih flying high altitude large interceptors the F 86 and had the low flying smaller size gnat---. Now the indians have massive strike aircraft and interceptors and pakistan has gone the other way around---smaller is better.

Now what does that mean for an ordinary man---any ordinary pakistani---. The ordinary pakistani has a right ot ask questions---. The questions will follow.

hello Sir,
Weather PAF is on right path or wrong....now, I see InAF stepping into PAF shoes.... not only, by going lighter and leaner in their future acquisitions and designs but also in product development approach.... from indigenous slogan to JVs and product application… ranging from AWACS and UAV’s and battle management.

 

[MastanKhan]

Santro,

Excuse me please for my ignorance---did somebody shove the F 104 down our throats---or did someone forced us to get the F 86's.

Actually in this day and age---there are no unknowns---you load up the given information in a computer running an appropriate program---and it will give you the abilities and capabilities of that machine within a whisker.

So---let me put it this way---you are misinformed---PAF is no mythical legend that its abilities are going to be hidden till the day of combat. Everybody who needs to know about the capabilities of this bird---already knows that by now since its first flight.

I am a very kind man----but when you ask me---

Your quote " The F-86 too spent a lot of its time low down so Im not following you here. The gnat was a maneuverable plane with a small profile. But overrated in its role against the sabre"---

that makes me disappointed---which mean that you need to do a little more homework---just because f 86 spent too much time at low altitude---it was out of neccessity of combat and not that of choice---the american had designed this plane against the russian high altitude russian bombers.

On the other hand--the gnat was not overrated at all---it was under utilized by the indians---.

Bottomline is that the indians were not hungry enough for a fight---some of them who showed up for battle---did notch up victories---.

In the punjab and sindh plains, there is no hiding from the radar even at low altitudes---no mountain ranges to hide---just open range.


Please please---don't say that the paf has done a lots of things that surprise us---. FOR GOODNESS SAKE THAT IS THEIR JOB-----that is what they are paid for----that is what they were hired to do.

In this day and of computer revolution and instantaneous access to the world wibe web---there is no information that is hidden from the other party except for the assets of the united states of america----everyone else's assets are in the public domain.

When there is death---it has reached that stage where you cannot kill that thing anymore than it is----it has gone beyond that point where it would make anymore difference.

India if it just keeps on purchasing at its natural rate of progression and doesn't do anything extra-ordinary---it is way ahead by at least a decade and a half. There is no worry at the indian end---.

If there was any worry at all---just even a whiff of it---they would have never deployed their SU 30's at srinagar.

Except for the coming BLK 52's and the amraams---india knows that pak air force is an impotent air force---take the blk 52 and amraams out of th eequation and itis a toothless dragon---that was labelled as in the HAD BEEN AND NOW LOST IN DIRECTION category .

Your last para----my good friend---I don't think you understand---or you don't want to believe---there is nothing that worthwhile, that the paf is hiding or it has the capacity or the ability to hide.

They don't have no magic bullet to take out the WEREWOLF except for the amraams ( not yet ).

A war is not a 24 hour ordeal---to train to be in a winning position you have to train for years with your actual assets in place---and when you train in real time scenarios---there is no hiding what you have and what you claim to have.

Please write in detail what PG's are BVR capable and with what kind of missile and if there are any picture around. Thankyou.

 

[atlantis_cn]

Santro,

Excuse me please for my ignorance---did somebody shove the F 104 down our throats---or did someone forced us to get the F 86's.

Actually in this day and age---there are no unknowns---you load up the given information in a computer running an appropriate program---and it will give you the abilities and capabilities of that machine within a whisker.

So---let me put it this way---you are misinformed---PAF is no mythical legend that its abilities are going to be hidden till the day of combat. Everybody who needs to know about the capabilities of this bird---already knows that by now since its first flight.

I am a very kind man----but when you ask me---

Your quote " The F-86 too spent a lot of its time low down so Im not following you here. The gnat was a maneuverable plane with a small profile. But overrated in its role against the sabre"---

that makes me disappointed---which mean that you need to do a little more homework---just because f 86 spent too much time at low altitude---it was out of neccessity of combat and not that of choice---the american had designed this plane against the russian high altitude russian bombers.

On the other hand--the gnat was not overrated at all---it was under utilized by the indians---.

Bottomline is that the indians were not hungry enough for a fight---some of them who showed up for battle---did notch up victories---.

In the punjab and sindh plains, there is no hiding from the radar even at low altitudes---no mountain ranges to hide---just open range.


Please please---don't say that the paf has done a lots of things that surprise us---. FOR GOODNESS SAKE THAT IS THEIR JOB-----that is what they are paid for----that is what they were hired to do.

In this day and of computer revolution and instantaneous access to the world wibe web---there is no information that is hidden from the other party except for the assets of the united states of america----everyone else's assets are in the public domain.

When there is death---it has reached that stage where you cannot kill that thing anymore than it is----it has gone beyond that point where it would make anymore difference.

India if it just keeps on purchasing at its natural rate of progression and doesn't do anything extra-ordinary---it is way ahead by at least a decade and a half. There is no worry at the indian end---.

If there was any worry at all---just even a whiff of it---they would have never deployed their SU 30's at srinagar.

Except for the coming BLK 52's and the amraams---india knows that pak air force is an impotent air force---take the blk 52 and amraams out of th eequation and itis a toothless dragon---that was labelled as in the HAD BEEN AND NOW LOST IN DIRECTION category .

Your last para----my good friend---I don't think you understand---or you don't want to believe---there is nothing that worthwhile, that the paf is hiding or it has the capacity or the ability to hide.

They don't have no magic bullet to take out the WEREWOLF except for the amraams ( not yet ).

A war is not a 24 hour ordeal---to train to be in a winning position you have to train for years with your actual assets in place---and when you train in real time scenarios---there is no hiding what you have and what you claim to have.

Please write in detail what PG's are BVR capable and with what kind of missile and if there are any picture around. Thankyou.

Sir,

May I ask you what you are talking here has anything to do with the plane that this thread should be doing business with?

I really appreciate your effort for keeping persuading other people to buy your points. But your effort is made in the wrong place. This thread's name is "JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter". If you really want to discuss something that has nothing to do with the plane, sir, how about start a new thread and name it whatever you want to talk? Thank you.

 

[anathema]

Sir,

.

OT.....

I just saw your signature...Are you based in China ? Dont you think you will get in trouble with that kind of signature ?

 

[MastanKhan]

hello Sir,
Weather PAF is on right path or wrong....now, I see InAF stepping into PAF shoes.... not only, by going lighter and leaner in their future acquisitions and designs but also in product development approach.... from indigenous slogan to JVs and product application… ranging from AWACS and UAV’s and battle management.

Hi,

When your economy is doing good and there is money in the coffers---you may chose what ever you want---even if it is not needed.

Here in the u s---when blue collar or white people have money they go buy the biggest motorcycle---like a 1500cc or a 1800cc motorcycle.

Do they need that much power---maybe maybe not---but the truth is that most deaths on motorcycle are for the reason that the rider was not trained to ride such a heavy bike.

So instead of running a lean and mean fighting machine, they want to operate a bulky, top heavy, extremely high over head and maintenance extensive equipment---it is their choice showing their mindset.

Are they in error---or are we making the correct decision---it is all subjective. We seek salvation in our JF 17---they are still running around in circles---looking at any and everything.

 

[air marshal]

 

[F86 Saber]

Whoa...something's wrong with this picture, the pilot canopy seems to be missing.

 

[bc040400065]

One good aspect that we should see is that whether they can carry BVR or not but surely they can carry 2000 pound bomb.

But can anyone tell me how many of these bombs thunder can carry.???

i think this 2000bl is not possible on the wing's hard points. So only one of these? am i right??

 

[TaimiKhan]

One good aspect that we should see is that whether they can carry BVR or not but surely they can carry 2000 pound bomb.

But can anyone tell me how many of these bombs thunder can carry.???

i think this 2000bl is not possible on the wing's hard points. So only one of these? am i right??

JF-17 can hold minimum 800/1100 liter fuel tank on both its inner under wing hard points as per its specifications. 800 liter tank is nearly equal to 211 US gallon of fuel, weighting about 655KG per fuel tank, while 1100 liter fuel tank would be equal to 291 gallon of fuel, giving us a 903 KG weight.

903KG weight can be carried on each inner under wing pylon.

2000Lb bomb is equal to 907KG weight.

So if my above calculations are correct, hopefully, then yes JF-17 can carry a 2000LB bomb on each of its inner under wing pylon.

 

[Tempest II]

903KG weight can be carried on each inner under wing pylon.

2000Lb bomb is equal to 907KG weight.

So if my above calculations are correct, hopefully, then yes JF-17 can carry a 2000LB bomb on each of its inner under wing pylon.

JF-17 according to this PAC release will only carry 1 x 2000lb bomb.

 

[TaimiKhan]

JF-17 according to this PAC release will only carry 1 x 2000lb bomb.

Yeah it seems so, but as i said above, if it can hold 2 1100 liter fuel tanks, then it can also hold 2 900KG+ bombs, as 2000Lb pound is nearly equal to 907KG, but the real weight of the bomb may be different, as it is mostly more then what figures i have quoted, as it is as per configuration of the bomb. 1000KG bomb is much more then the 900-905KG figure, so that much weight would not be supported currently.

But the hard points can have atleast a bomb in the 850-900KG range.

1000KG bomb is not 2000lb, rather it becomes 2200+lb.

 

[Dazzler]

The above chart is not the actual payload made for thunder but it is merely for reference. Trust me folks, thunder can carry much more than what is depicted in a reference chart.

Ragards