JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[farhan_9909]

If we use 50% composite material in jf-17 like in LCA
how much weight will be decreased

can it be like LCA abbout 5.4ton?

 

[sancho]

A little % of metallic structure replaced by composites...

Any source?

Hi Nabil,

These composites---other than the weight, won't they reduce the radar signature of the plane as well.

It can help to reduce it, but if these figures are correct (around 300Kg of composites), it would hardly mean 5% of the empty weight.

 

[farhan_9909]

Jf-17 hard points increased to 8 and in future to 9

is it true?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Any source?



It can help to reduce it, but if these figures are correct (around 300Kg of composites), it would hardly mean 5% of the empty weight.

Officially no source so far, reason being that the percentage is very less, so not being told.

Well your 5% of the empty weight comes from a figure of about 5,400KG empty weight without engines, but still there are ejection seat, full load of avionics, wiring and other stuff in the aircraft, so if the percentage to just the structure of the aircraft is to be seen, the 5% may increase further up.

Whatever the figure, good thing is that, even if its 250-300KG of composites or reduction in total weight of the aircraft by this figure, it would further help in increasing the weapon carrying capacity of the aircraft, which was about 3800KG, and with these additions must be crossing the 4000kG and hopefully reaching 4100KG total payload carrying capacity.

Nabil might further explain is the 250-300KG total weight of the composites used or is it the figure of reduction in weight of the airframe after composites had been used.

The composites cover nose cone, wings, rudders and some part of the tail.

 

[pshamim]

Mastan Khan Saheb,
Please do not despair. KLJ-10 will be replacing the KLJ-7 in the first batch.

Heard today.

 

[Dark Angel]

If we use 50% composite material in jf-17 like in LCA
how much weight will be decreased

can it be like LCA abbout 5.4ton?

The Tejas employs C-FC materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight, including in the fuselage (doors and skins), wings (skin, spars and ribs), elevons, tailfin, rudder, air brakes and landing gear doors. Composites are used to make an aircraft both lighter and stronger at the same time compared to an all-metal design, and the LCA's percentage employment of C-FCs is one of the highest among contemporary aircraft of its class.[44] Apart from making the plane much lighter, there are also fewer joints or rivets, which increases the aircraft's reliability and lowers its susceptibility to structural fatigue cracks.

 

[pshamim]

The Tejas employs C-FC materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight, including in the fuselage (doors and skins), wings (skin, spars and ribs), elevons, tailfin, rudder, air brakes and landing gear doors. Composites are used to make an aircraft both lighter and stronger at the same time compared to an all-metal design, and the LCA's percentage employment of C-FCs is one of the highest among contemporary aircraft of its class.[44] Apart from making the plane much lighter, there are also fewer joints or rivets, which increases the aircraft's reliability and lowers its susceptibility to structural fatigue cracks.

Congratulation to you guys. Only one point that you are wrong about. Sketch indicates that LCA is more like 96% composite and not just 46% as you mention. You guys are really a humble lot.

 

[sancho]

Officially no source so far, reason being that the percentage is very less, so not being told.

Well your 5% of the empty weight comes from a figure of about 5,400KG empty weight without engines, but still there are ejection seat, full load of avionics, wiring and other stuff in the aircraft, so if the percentage to just the structure of the aircraft is to be seen, the 5% may increase further up.

Not really, I calculated with the 6400Kg empty weight of the PAC Kamra specs, 5% are 320Kg so it is more the maximum.

Congratulation to you guys. Only one point that you are wrong about. Sketch indicates that LCA is more like 96% composite and not just 46% as you mention. You guys are really a humble lot.

That's only a wiki pic, I gave the official source in post # 2117 some pages ago.

 

[Dark Angel]

Congratulation to you guys. Only one point that you are wrong about. Sketch indicates that LCA is more like 96% composite and not just 46% as you mention. You guys are really a humble lot.

The pic dosent say the % but only the places the composites are used pls dont put the words in someones mouth

 

[aliyusuf]

Mastan Khan Saheb,
Please do not despair. KLJ-10 will be replacing the KLJ-7 in the first batch.

Heard today.

Thank you pshamim sahib ... that is truly heartening news.
This would certainly add to the effectiveness of the fighter.
If we just consider the fact that the workhorse fighter of the years to come, in it's inception is this capable, then the future is certainly not un-encouraging for the PAF.

This is a significant development.

 

[MastanKhan]

Pshamim,

Thanks for your post---sir respectfully---I care less about the second batch---. It was this first batch that was supposed to make the difference---the second batch has a lots of hurdles to cross---.

Napoleon lost his battle because his flank was just late by 1 minute to move into action---and here our war machine is not going to be ready for another 5 years.

The french deception will have terrible consequences for the paf in the years to come---. PAF is trying to save its face and really doesnot want to come out in the open and tell how much damage it has really really incurred.

Pshamim---if today I was a rich man---I would have printed up PAF's deception and incompetence in all of the pakistani news papers. This agency has been the most criminally neglegent when it came to buying the right equipment--I would want every pakistani to know how much of a lie they have been living through---the nation has been let down one more time and the poor souls don't even know that they have been ra-ped.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Not really, I calculated with the 6400Kg empty weight of the PAC Kamra specs, 5% are 320Kg so it is more the maximum.

Well 6400Kg is the weight of the aircraft including its engine, which is about 1000+KG, then as said the whole lot of avionics, wiring, ejection seat and so much other stuff in it also becomes part of the weight.

Am no aviation expert, but i believe the percentage calculation of composites weight to total weight should be done as per the weight of only the empty airframe minus the engine and other stuff.

 

[ice_man]

Pshamim,

Thanks for your post---sir respectfully---I care less about the second batch---. It was this first batch that was supposed to make the difference---the second batch has a lots of hurdles to cross---.

Napoleon lost his battle because his flank was just late by 1 minute to move into action---and here our war machine is not going to be ready for another 5 years.

The french deception will have terrible consequences for the paf in the years to come---. PAF is trying to save its face and really doesnot want to come out in the open and tell how much damage it has really really incurred.

Pshamim---if today I was a rich man---I would have printed up PAF's deception and incompetence in all of the pakistani news papers. This agency has been the most criminally neglegent when it came to buying the right equipment--I would want every pakistani to know how much of a lie they have been living through---the nation has been let down one more time and the poor souls don't even know that they have been ra-ped.

MK you are probably the greatest poster on this forum because you speak from the heart & say what you believe in & stand by it!

i agree with you 100% on your perception that JF is not what the doctor ordered or what we HOPED it would be.

But sir its not only the PAF but even the boys in white our weakest link the Achilles heels NAVY is equally if not worse than our PAF lot. Airforce & navy always have been half brothers of the Army. everything goes to the army. the nation has no money whatever it gets is spent on the brigadiers,majors,colonels! in such a scenario i think PAF is doing the best it can.

hell PAF is procuring 40 JFs on "soft loan"! until you hang corrupt inept crooks who are in our parliament we will have to live with JFs because it is the best we got with the money we have in our coffers.

 

[Luftwaffe]

ice_man...I posted that in other thread long time ago might be of some importance or worth reading if not for all.

PAF has to be held accountable for all those fund out of budget provided to them they could get a decent platform right from 1990s till now!(leave out JF-17/F-16) agree or not PAF's Corruptions has done its part to weaken Air Force..
in 20 Years we could have bought Mirages -5 but we pathetically miserably failed under the pretext of no funds and that's all false misleading statements by PAF where as India managed to exceed in 20 Years time to the point realistically we're out matched out classes by 4:1 purely myth 3:1 numerical superiority fairly its 4:1 numerical superiority! a man lays his life to protect his country so to protect your skies you've to pay the price and sacrifices i don't care where the hell funds comes from there are funds for presidency spending a million rupees a day pay 5 lacks each to victims, funds for everything for official vehicles but no funds for PAF nonsense! 20 years is a very long time indeed there must be audit for PAF as well by independent commission!

Question is 20-22 Years F-7s purchases (PG/P variants) (how much did it cost
PAF lets say 4-6 Million dollars lets say 5-7 Million per unit? after upgrades of say 3 Million per unit), second hand Mirages (atleast 22-24 Years old air frames what would be the cost? guess yourself plus upgrades to rose standards atleast 67-70 of mirages underwent ROSE upgrades lets add 220-240 Million dollars for upgrades and merely $ 550 Million dollars initial investment on the development cost of JF-17, 18 F-16 orders+ old ones MLU....(did not add the cost of MLU F-16s and new 18 F-16s)

This is the picture over all atleast around 2-2.1 Billion dollars were spent on procurement of all F-7P and later F-7PG and their upgrades also include Mirages procurement from RAAF/Libya and later their upgrades in 22 Years 1988-2009 (F-16 story is different) even if I add $550 Million investment on JF-17 that makes $ 2.5-2.6 Billion...it is highly unlikely PAF to have spent more than that even if spending is stretch that would be up to 2.9 Billion dollars that even includes K-8 Jet trainers and upgrades of T-37...I've presented the complete approx PAF spending for the last 22 Years amazingly non has pointed out that PAF has spent approximately 3 Billion dollars on F-7s, Mirages/K-8s/JF-17s in a period of 22 Years so where did rest of the funds go! that is a big Question Mark..Is that PAF can best come up with in 22 years long period!?

 

[Jazzbot]

corruption in PAF..?
never heard of it ever before..