JF-17 Nightmare For The Enemy Pilots

[ziaulislam]

assuming 20-30 million piece for each thunder and assuming a full number of 250, with training and logistics the additional 100-150 fighters are going to cost ~4 billion dollars to PAF
this along with ~2 more suardons of f-16s/j-11 and PAF is all set to maintain its 19 front line squadrons

 

[Falcon26]

I remember when folks across the border were saying JF-17 will never fly, let alone with a Russian engine. This was when we used to hear LCA will enter mass production next year, so about 15 years ago.

Today JF-17 is flying with number of PAF squadrons supported by almost 11 AWACS, connected to ground based low, medium and soon high altitude SAMs and other force multipliers that will negate any IAF advantage over Pakistani airspace. Block III is right around the corner which will introduce catching edge technology further eliminating most advantages by MKIs.

The LCA is no where in sight. Repeatedly rejected by even the IAF. Indian frustrations on this thread and elsewhere should be seen in this context.

PAF is meant to fight and come on top, not to run around bragging about hangar queens.

 

[Sankpal]

I remember when folks across the border were saying JF-17 will never fly, let alone with a Russian engine. This was when we used to hear LCA will enter mass production next year, so about 15 years ago.

Today JF-17 is flying with number of PAF squadrons supported by almost 11 AWACS, connected to ground based low, medium and soon high altitude SAMs and other force multipliers that will negate any IAF advantage over Pakistani airspace. Block III is right around the corner which will introduce catching edge technology further eliminating most advantages by MKIs.

The LCA is no where in sight. Repeatedly rejected by even the IAF. Indian frustrations on this thread and elsewhere should be seen in this context.

PAF is meant to fight and come on top, not to run around bragging about hangar queens.

Congrats.. you are flying numbers jf 17 because Paf needed fighters on urgent basis and it may fit for their requirements.

But if you talk about HAL Tejas then I could simply say that we don't want fighter aircraft who will not fit after 10 years when we have 5th generation fighters around us. HAL Tejas with current configuration (still better then jf 17) - 20 and later 80 HAL Tejas mark1 with AESA radar and other improvements will serve better for India till 2040.

We can wait till our fighter developed to fight war's in 21st century, we are not in hurry. We already have fighters to take our external threats. Su 30mki, Rafele, FGFA, HAL Tejas, new fighter (f16 or any) will protect from any threats.

 

[Shabi1]

Congrats.. you are flying numbers jf 17 because Paf needed fighters on urgent basis and it may fit for their requirements.

But if you talk about HAL Tejas then I could simply say that we don't want fighter aircraft who will not fit after 10 years when we have 5th generation fighters around us. HAL Tejas with current configuration (still better then jf 17) - 20 and later 80 HAL Tejas mark1 with AESA radar and other improvements will serve better for India till 2040.

We can wait till our fighter developed to fight war's in 21st century, we are not in hurry. We already have fighters to take our external threats. Su 30mki, Rafele, FGFA, HAL Tejas, new fighter (f16 or any) will protect from any threats.

You can make all the excuses you like but the bottom line is only reason InAF not inducting Tejas in large numbers is that the current version does not even meet its advertised performance specification hence waiting for the Mark-2 variant.

Pakistan's approach is actually working really well and it's inability to acquire western jets has been a blessing in disguise. JF-17 production line is replacing older jets and as new improvements made they are being incorporated to previous builds. Sub systems developed by third parties being selected after stiff competitions/evaluations and once selected, manufactured locally with transfer of rights so future development is inhouse. The Block-3 variant specs are at par with Grippen-NG specs. And a 5th gen replacement to take on the role of the F-16s is in the pipeline as project Azm.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...iaf-criteria-has-53-shortfalls-cag/77896.html

Provided link is from 2015 but it clarifies why Tejas needs major work and their is a wait for Mark-2 before it can become a proper fighter jet.

"
Listing the shortcomings, the CAG said that the LCA Mark- I failed to meet the electronic warfare capabilities sought by IAF as the Self-Protection Jammer could not be fitted on the aircraft due to space constraints. It also pointed out that the Radar Warning Receiver/Counter Measure Dispensing System fitted on the aircraft had raised performance concerns that, until January 2015, were yet to be overcome. The authority also added that the Mark-I’s shortcomings (increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, non-compliance of fuel system protection, pilot protection from front, reduced speed) were expected to be corrected in the Mark-II model.



"LCA Mark-I does not meet the ASR. The deficiencies are now expected to be met in LCA Mark-II by December 2018," the CAG said."

While DRDO has always showcased LCA, christened Tejas, as an indigenously-developed aircraft and the Aeronautical Development Agency pegged the indigenous content of the LCA at 70 per cent, the CAG said it "actually worked out to about 35 per cent" as of January this year.

 

[devil thunder 302]

Guys im pakistani but i belive that paf,army and neither our navy has a chance to stand against india because i've heard a news that they have developed a 8th generation supersocic stealth crocodile and they wont even use their mki's migs su's and 7th gen tej-a$$ too

 

[Raider 21]

Guys, Albeit a shorter clip posted earlier but here's the exclusive full length video of JF-17 blazing through the sky, checkout the size of SD-10 BVR missile. This weapon along with JF-17's agility is causing some headaches to the adversaries.

@Taimoor Khan @Hodor @Khafee @Knuckles @Irfan Baloch

Cool video. Very well made. Hilarious name for the thread.

 

[Rafael]

Man, still quoting old reports?

Again, did you ever read what they told about shortfall of HAL Tejas and compare same specifications with jf 17 whether it exists or not?

2nd, Indian air force is not going for MK2 version. MK1 with AESA radar and other improvements will serve well for IAF. So we can wait for better aircraft who can serve in 21 century instead of again looking a new aircraft after 10-15 for replacement when when we will have around 5-6 generation fighters aircraft's.

Again, I would say that jf17 is good for pakistan as per their requirement specially cost wise but other hand you can have a look china, they don't want to Induct jf17. Because they have better like J10, su27, j family aircraft's and 5th generation fighters.

Same goes to India.. why should we Induct a fighter who will not fit to serve and face new challenges after 10 years, better wait and have a good fighter that serve iaf even after 10 years. Aleast till 2050.

I must appreciate India's patience. Waiting for 30 years already and still can wait for another 10 years! Good things come to those who wait.

 

[Burhan Wani]

I AGREE

But not For Pakistan or in deed India

DO YOU REALISE PAF still operates 125 mirage 5 from 60 years ago

Yes a 60 year old mirage 5 fleet

India still has MIG21

IN OUR REGION IN 2030 F16/70 will be like a space ship

Have you seem the state of defense budgets in this region especially Pakistans

It will be better for you to acquire F-35 and Rafales as a support aircraft. You can easily acquire Gen 5 aircraft compared to us, F-16s will not be a cutting edge for you because your opponents have this machine since decades. I accept that latest F-16 are better than ours but in coming years we will try to approach better up gradation with the help of Turkey. So f-16s will not give you tactical superiority but F-35 will do both psychologically and technologically.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

It will be better for you to acquire F-35 and Rafales as a support aircraft. You can easily acquire Gen 5 aircraft compared to us, F-16s will not be a cutting edge for you because your opponents have this machine since decades. I accept that latest F-16 are better than ours but in coming years we will try to approach better up gradation with the help of Turkey. So f-16s will not give you tactical superiority but F-35 will do both psychologically and technologically.

You are perfectly right in reasoning. But wrong in your assessment of the situation. Your F16 which are nearly 30 years old are your frontline fighters. Whereas for IAF if F16 block 70 acquired will still be 2nd line single engine fighter jets which will be working in tandem with Super sukhois, Rafales and possibly 5th generation fighters.
Therefore scenario is such.
Your frontline fighters will be(and also in current status quo) less technologically advanced than your adversaries 2nd line fighters which will only come in to play ones frontline fighters will have achieved air supremacy or in tandem with air superiority fighters

 

[Burhan Wani]

You are perfectly right in reasoning. But wrong in your assessment of the situation. Your F16 which are nearly 30 years old are your frontline fighters. Whereas for IAF if F16 block 70 acquired will still be 2nd line single engine fighter jets which will be working in tandem with Super sukhois, Rafales and possibly 5th generation fighters.
Therefore scenario is such.
Your frontline fighters will be(and also in current status quo) less technologically advanced than your adversaries 2nd line fighters which will only come in to play ones frontline fighters will have achieved air supremacy or in tandem with air superiority fighters

Our approach is defensive. There will be no air to air war between India and Pakistan ever keep in mind. I already agreed that our F-16 fleet are aged compared to latest F-16s but we can upgrade them to V standards by the help of our allies.
Your 2030 plan is not economical. Suppose you acquired super Sukhois, Rafal and F16s but they will be useless after 2050. Acquire generation 5 aircraft in numbers and adopt Rafal/euros as a supporting aircraft, Sukhois and Migs can be ohsum for naval support. This will be helpful for you for 100 years but still useless.

 

[Windjammer]

Cool video. Very well made. Hilarious name for the thread.

Not exactly, there's a reason that it's mostly JF-17 carrying out the ADA duties on the Eastern flank.

 

[paritosh]

Wrong acheiving high speed will mean use of lot of fuel, a sustained path and very high altitude...getting to high/maximum speeds isn't that easy...

In the past it was needed for interceptions now it isnt...advnatages of the DSI outweighs achieving a theoretical high speed.

It's factored on TTW and Range. So a plane with a higher TTW and range mix demonstrates better design efficiency.
In short indo-Pak air combat scenarios, range wouldn't matter a lot. Also, that while engaging hostiles, pilots tend to push the planes to the max engaging afterburners, thrust vectoring and combat/evasive maneuvers.

Looks good on paper, however sorry to ruin your daily meal, recent confrontation between the two proved otherwise without any blood being spilled....when a single round can blow you out of the sky, what advantages do you have whether you are carrying 4 or 10 missiles.....unless one side is America and the other Iraq....

Single shot doesn't guarantee a kill. There is a metric for that, I think it's first kill probability for each missile.
Increasing the number of missiles fired at the same target at different time-splices over different ranges increases the probability of kill occurring.
What 'recent confrontation' are you referring to?

 

[Sankpal]

butthurt use this on your @$$ its a pain killer look at your negative ratings you're come here for troll not technical discussion
View attachment 434126
you're reported for your trolling

Technology wise, i would not expect from you. rest your comments says. i hope you will report my all posts.

 

[Windjammer]

Single shot doesn't guarantee a kill. There is a metric for that, I think it's first kill probability for each missile.
Increasing the number of missiles fired at the same target at different time-splices over different ranges increases the probability of kill occurring.
What 'recent confrontation' are you referring to?

Unlike most other adversaries, India and Pakistan have a common border with very little flying and reaction time, it's said even the AWACS will be struggling to monitor and identify all the incoming and outgoing traffic ... not exactly an ideal environment for aircraft lingering around fire their weapons at intervals.....most likely they will fire and break off unless one side achieves complete air superiority....which is a highly unlikely scenario.
And when recently there was a flare up on the border, it wasn't just confined to ground troops, there were cat and mouse being played in the air as well.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Technology wise, i would not expect from you. rest your comments says. i hope you will report my all posts.

you know the Technology that surprise me