JF-17 has edge over LCA: Pak officials

[HAIDER]

well its hard to discuss LCA and JF17, one is in production and other one in development stages. India first need toresolve the weight and engine thrust ratio, because engine does not have enough thrust for LCA over all weight.

 

[bushwhacker91]

well its hard to discuss LCA and JF17, one is in production and other one in development stages. India first need toresolve the weight and engine thrust ratio, because engine does not have enough thrust for LCA over all weight.

Again little facts, more imagination(Srce: Wikipedia):


PLEASE BE FACTUAL FOR GODS SAKE!

JF-17
Powerplant: 1× Klimov RD-93 turbofan [37]
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN [38] (11,106 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 81.4 kN [39] (18,299 lbf)
G-limit: +8.5 g [13]
Fuel Capacity: 2300kg (5,130 lb) [40]

Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 [41] [42]
Combat radius: 1,352 km [43] (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,000km [44] [45] (1,864 mi)
Service ceiling 16,700 m [46] (54,790 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95 [47] [48]

Hal Tejas

Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb (in fighter configuration))
Max takeoff weight: 14,500 kg (32,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
Dry thrust: 54.9 kN (12,250 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN (19,000 lbf)
Internal fuel capacity: 3000 liters
External fuel capacity: 5×800 liter tanks or 3×1,200 liter tanks, totaling 4,000/3,600 liters
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,920+ km/h at high altitude) at 15,000 m
Range: 3000 km (1,840 mi (without refueling))
Service ceiling 15,950+ m (50,000 ft (engine re-igniter safely capable))
Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft&#178
Thrust/weight: 1.02
g limits : +9 g / -3.5 g

 

[mean_bird]

of all of the posts i've seen claiming jf-17 is better, not a SINGLE one has proof u guys just say inshallah jf-17 is better hail pakistan and china future brothers blah blah blah

but at least 3 people who say lca is better actually provide EVIDENCE that the lca is better. you guys are still stuck in ur dream world thinking lca wont fly until 2025, the fact is is that it will achieve IOC by 2010 and 28 will be in service by 2011, and the lca mk II will be in service by 2012-2013.

also the guy who said china has more avionics experience... remember that India's software industry is one of the most advanced in the world, avionics is what they're good at. and china doesn't have experience with ADVANCED Israeli avionics, only the old ones remember there are restrictions on Israel to prevent china from getting anything advanced.

evidence that proves lca is better:
-lighter and same engine thrust = more performance than jf-17 and more weapons carried
-composite and smaller = less rcs than jf-17
-better radar
-better avionics
-better fbw system
-costs 7 million more
-better engine (rd-93 smokes a lot)
-soon to get aesa
-soon to get ej-2000 increasing performance

now the only way i will believe the jf-17 is better is if you can prove without a shadow of a doubt all of these facts wrong.

Why do I need to bother to provide you evidence without doubt that these facts are wrong?

What 3 people have given "evidence" about LCA? quoting someone else's post from GS and saying its "evidence"? I can quote a lot of posts, even from this forum. Does that also count as "evidence"?


How about you provide me evidence without doubt that these facts are right?

 

[ajpirzada]

JF-17 will be operational in few months. on the other hand we are not 100% clear when are we gonna see LCA joinin IAF. by the time LCA will become operational who is sayin JF 17 will not go through upgrades for which talks are already underway. if u want to compare LCA with JF 17 it would be better if we compare it with JF 17 with western avionics. todays JF 17 with chinease avionics cannot be compared with the jet which will come after 3yrs. keep the time factor in mind

 

[iceman2009]

Is the JF17 operational.this Year ???

LCA will come next Year with Israeli radar & American Engine.

For a combat plane thats vitually the same time.#

And yes you cannot compare Chinease & russian hardware to USA/ Israeli.

This is why so many of us believe LCA has the edge. UNTIL JF17 gets a western upgrade.

 

[mean_bird]

This article is from GlobalSecurity.com

From Globalsecurity:

Globalsecurity:[/COLOR]

In conclusion it is very hard to say which fighter plane has the edge but we can clearly see that LCA has better avionics and BVR making it a better futuristic thus a 4.5 Generation aircraft while the JF 17 is still considered a 4th Generation. But both aircrafts ae good start for both the countries.

If you are so fond of Globalsecurity, then read what Global security has to say about JF-17 in comparison to the LCA ( they term it as : Last Chance Aircraft )

The JF-17 Thunder, whose performance is matched only by F-16s in the Pakistan Air Force's current inventory, would be replacing the aging fleet of Mirage, F-7s and A-5s. The aircraft is being considered as a match for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is expected to form the backbone of the Indian Air Force in future. There are, however, some features like advanced and futuristic avionics and cost effectiveness that give the JF-17 an edge over the LCA.

Source

"advanced and futuristic avionics" that gives JF-17 and edge over LCA. There goes your bubble of LCA's avionics.

Then there is range, stealth factor because of DSI, etc. By the time LCA enter service, JF-17 will be far more mature than it is today and even today it has more advanced avionics than LCA.

Its useless to compare an in service plane with something on paper.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

All I have seen in previous posts, is a non-technical and a rather emotional response.

This article is from GlobalSecurity.com

The LCA is the smallest and the lightest light combat aircraft in world which the is indigenously designed by the India’s ADA. It is planed to replace the aging Mig 21 series aircraft and be front line mulitmission single seat tactical aircraft. LCA features State of the art avionics and beyond the visual range system including advanced fly-by-wire system.
The JF 17 is a joint project between China and Pakistan and the plane features as a all weather multipurpose light fighter and the aircraft is features with up to date avionics with only medium range missiles, but is also capable of carrying air to air missiles.
Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s. LCA is equipped to carry all the next generation missiles that the SU 30mki carries along with the capability of carrying several advanced BVR missiles like AA-10 Alamo, AA-12 Adder, MICA and maybe even Derby. But the main component is the India’s own Indigenous BVR missile, Astra.
Moving on to good old dogfighting. To compare between the two on dogfighting criteria it is a little bit shaky. LCA has delta wings and no tailplanes; considering this fact LCA is more agile and maneuverable.
FC 1 will be equipped with AIM-9x and Sidewinder missiles. On the contrary LCA will be equipped AA-11 Archer, AIM-9p and with the extremely lethal Israeli Python 4 and 5.We clearly have winner in Avionics; LCA.

From Globalsecurity:


The glass cockpit and hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls reduce pilot workload. Accurate navigation and weapon aiming information on the head up display helps the pilot achieve his mission effectively. The multifunction displays provide information on engine, hydraulics, electrical, flight control and environmental control system on a need-to-know basis along with basic flight and tactical information. Dual redundant display processors (DP) generate computer-generated imagery on these displays. The pilot interacts with the complex avionics systems through a simple multifunction keyboard, and function and sensor selection panels. A state-of-the-art multi-mode radar (MMR), laser designator pod (LDP), forward looking infra-red (FLIR) and other opto-electronic sensors provide accurate target information to enhance kill probabilities. A ring laser gyro (RLG)-based inertial navigation system (INS), provides accurate navigation guidance to the pilot. An advanced electronic warfare (EW) suite enhances the aircraft survivability during deep penetration and combat. Secure and jam-resistant communication systems, such as IFF, VHF/UHF and air-to-air/air-to-ground data link are provided as a part of the avionics suite. All these systems are integrated on three 1553B buses by a centralised 32-bit mission computer (MC) with high throughput which performs weapon computations and flight management, and reconfiguration/redundancy management. Reversionary mission functions are provided by a control and coding unit (CCU). Most of these subsystems have been developed indigenously.

Avionic info on the JF 17 is very vague. From Globalsecurity:

The aircraft has the ability to engage targets at all speeds and altitudes within the conventional flying envelope. In the surface attack and interdiction role, the aircraft can strike at long distances. The combat jet has been installed with an advanced flight control system, which is a mix of conventional and fly-by-wire controls, making it highly agile and maneuverable.

In conclusion it is very hard to say which fighter plane has the edge but we can clearly see that LCA has better avionics and BVR making it a better futuristic thus a 4.5 Generation aircraft while the JF 17 is still considered a 4th Generation. But both aircrafts ae good start for both the countries.

this report is as bogus as it can get!
first of all JF-17 wont only be equipped with SD-10 as PAF will soon induct french radar, avionics and armament like MICA and AGMs.
i do not have time to go on how F globalscurrility is! they need to be updated with current PAF programs and JF-17.

 

[iceman2009]

JF17 that will achieve IOC for PAF this year you tell us will have

Chinease Radar, Russian engine,, Chinease weapons...

See this picture

AERO+INDIA+2009+(2)-747354.JPG (image)

LCA with 4 PYLONS loaded

Drop tanks & air to air missles.

IT HAS american engine

Israeli Radar.

I wud swop neither for your KLJ7 chinease radar or your Russian engine.

As for FRENCH radar and weapons " You won,t get those for many years cause they want serious dollars first"

JF17 with western tech is just speculation. AS YET . NOTHING MORE

 

[Super Falcon]

but still this thing cannot fly jf 17 is operational in our airforce

 

[mean_bird]

JF17 with western tech is just speculation. AS YET . NOTHING MORE

The chances of a JF-17 with western radar are better than LCA getting inducted at all.

France has already offered to PAF its radar and missiles as have others. Check the Ideas 2008 PDF file for details

Meanwhile, France has offered Pakistan its RC-400 radar and MBDA MICA missile for the aircraft. However, AESA radar of different makes have also been offered to the Pakistan Air Force and the MBDA Meteor missile too is on the cards. Pakistan has begun negotiations with British, Italian, and French defence firms over potential avionics and other systems for the JF-17 Thunder aircrafts.

And yes, JF-17 will be making a squadron within the first half of this year while the same cannot be said about LCA before 2011.

Stop living in your little bubble and accept facts.

 

[Super Falcon]

and plz dont post pics of gripen as lca

 

[mundaus]

If LCA is so good then why the need for India to buy 126 fighter aircrafts for a cost of $12B? Does not make sense.

 

[SSGPA1]

JF17 that will achieve IOC for PAF this year you tell us will have
... JF17 with western tech is just speculation. AS YET . NOTHING MORE

When is the LCA going to be inducted? 2015?

By that time JF-17 will have many more modifications.

Don't forget that the biggest issue for the PAF was supply of parts and jets at the time of need. JF-17 has resolved that issue for PAF.

It is now India's turn to enjoy Western 'defense corporation' so we will ask about your feelings towards the Western avionics in a few years.

 

[iceman2009]

Super Falcon.

That Hyper link is from Aero india 2009.

They are 2 INDIAN LCA TEJAS fighters fully loaded with weapons & drop tanks due to take part in the show.

Check the picture again.

I know its hard to believe cause they look awsome

AERO+INDIA+2009+(2)-747354.JPG (image)

Look at this other link

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/lca/lca-10.jpg

I can see why you wud mistake the LCA for gripen because they do look alike

 

[Munir]

The JF17 has been flying with wingtips loaded since the beginning. The wingtanks have been tested long time ago but not needed during these testing in Pakistan. Ground ordnance is been tested at the moment. So compared to LCA the JF17 is a bit ahead.