JF-17 fighter jet gets J-20’s combat missile: reports (Global times)

[Syed_Adeel]

If only things were this easy.

There are countless other parameters such as the effectiveness of the Radar of the Fighter and the Missile (terminal), the NEZ of the missile, the ability of the missile to outspeed its target in head to tail chase from 100+ km's away, the ability of the Missile to seek the intended target from amidst clutter (chaffs, flares, decoys) etc., and it's ability to continue intended operation despite intense ECM & Jamming etc.......then come the ability of the target to be 'visible' to the radar of both the attacking Jet and the missile along with the target's ability to defend itself using electronic means (such as SPECTRA on Rafale) or simply to outspeed or exhaust the missile etc.

And then come the ability of the missile to actually 'destroy' the target, after reaching it..........including hitting the target (kinetics & warhead) or proximity detonation (for maximum damage) etc.

All the things are true. BUT my dear these all parameters also apply on other bvrs as well NO ?.
your details doesnt prove the meteor orAIM120 superior.
I believe we need more time to know who is better. BUT one thing is clear that PAF is going to get much benefit out of it.

 

[GumNaam]

RAFALE has a better chance to survive than Block-3 because of its have better EW/ECM (SPECTRA), we don't nothing about which EW/ECM package on block-3

I'm sure the BLK3 ECM/EW package has been enhanced based on intel from Qatar & other sources including from within the iaf (thank you ISI) on the ecm/ew capabilities of the rafale. after the first rafales' arrival, BLK3 was delayed for a reason. I'm confident that the BLK3 carries a lot of nasty surprises for our eastern neighbor.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I'm sure the BLK3 ECM/EW package has been enhanced based on intel from Qatar & other sources including from within the iaf (thank you ISI) on the ecm/ew capabilities of the rafale. after the first rafales' arrival, BLK3 was delayed for a reason. I'm confident that the BLK3 carries a lot of nasty surprises for our eastern neighbor.

I hope so brother but you're just assuming

 

[GumNaam]

I hope so brother but you're just assuming

my assumptions are based on what has been reported thus far. Let's see, In sha Allah khair ho gi...

 

[Ali_Baba]

Mostly we both block-3 and RAFALE will have a equal chance to engage each other

No dude -

1 - JF17 Block III has a first shot advantage with the PL15. You cannot disregard the difference and magic away the advantage.
2 - PAF has better datalinks and data/network centric warfare systems in place compared to the IAF, so that the low RCS advantage of the Rafale is negated by a better integrated radar network by the PAF and better datalinks..

 

[White and Green with M/S]

No dude -

1 - JF17 Block III has a first shot advantage with the PL15. You cannot disregard the difference and magic away the advantage.
2 - PAF has better datalinks and data/network centric warfare systems in place compared to the IAF, so that the low RCS advantage of the Rafale is negated by a better integrated radar network by the PAF and better datalinks..

Better data link means you're seeing only one side of picture, they don't use any AWACS?? RAFALE has a better EW/ECM defense system (SPECTRA), we still don't know what EW/ECM package used by block-3, and RAFALE have METEOR which have 3 time NEZ range than any conventional (rocket powered) BVR, so

 

[alee92nawaz]

that depends on the details of both the KLJ7A and the PL15 which no body knows much about...if they are what we hope they are then the F16 BLK52 takes the back seat to the JF17 BLK3.

The first shot advantage is gonna be a double whammy for the rafale...for while it's busy trying to save its skin from the PL15, The Thunders can go full force in for a close range kill with the PL10s so even if the rafale manages to escape the claws of the PL15's insane no escape zone, it'll be hunted down down with the PL10s.

rip rafale.

Yar 2 sd 10 le ja skta hy jf-17. F-16 can take 4 amraams.

Had the Mirage-2000 pilots been as brave as Nandu you would be celebrating the SD-10.

Fantasies

Why because you say so in your expert opinion backed up but your doctorate in aerospace and years of extensive experience in combat aircraft evaluation or simply you are still at the gora worship stage

Sir apne apna name bh koi urdu nu rakha hoa.

What is your understanding of op swift retort. You think shooting down of Indian jets was primary target? How many F16s were employed to target the primary ground target? I got news for you, none. They are not capable to perform standoff missions. And that's where jf17 were deployed.

I think you are sucking on too much yank propaganda and F16 lobby within. Those IAF jets shootdown were the ones for which the approval came. There were 7 others which were locked but the authorization never came, and not all of them were in crosshairs of F16.

Yeah mirage 3 had locks on them

 

[GumNaam]

Yar 2 sd 10 le ja skta hy jf-17. F-16 can take 4 amraams.

not true. just take a good look at this pic:

if Thunders can carry 2 C802s & 2 SD10s, do you really think it can't carry 4 SD10s? of course it can. and if you are really in love with big drop tanks then ok, there's the option of dual racks. we've seen a full size mockup. wonder if it's a reality or not, I don't know but Thunders are more than capable of using dual racks:

if it can carry 2 250kg bombs on each rack, then 2 SD10s won't be a problem. swapping out the dual bomb rack for the dual missile rack is a trivial task.

 

[m52k85]

swapping out the dual bomb rack for the dual missile rack is a trivial task.

Are you sure? Do you have any expertise to support that? Or you just mean "lay-man" easy because it seems easy to a lay-man.

What reason do you think we havent seen dual-rack SD-10s in operation yet? I am skeptical abouth the radar reason (current radar can only simultaneously engage 2 targets), the underlying assumption there is that you will just take 1 set of shots in the first flow and not re-engage. That's not how BVR tactics work.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Better data link means you're seeing only one side of picture, they don't use any AWACS?? RAFALE has a better EW/ECM defense system (SPECTRA), we still don't know what EW/ECM package used by block-3, and RAFALE have METEOR which have 3 time NEZ range than any conventional (rocket powered) BVR, so

How is the SPECTRA better ? Explain? It is essentially 90's tech as of now. The NEZ only comes into play if it is within launch parameters and we are saying it will never get into launch parameters as a PL15 will be coming towards the Rafale first, forcing the Rafale into a defensive posture at the start of the engagement.

 

[Dazzler]

Actually, it is indigenous for Chinese manufacture except importing injection seat and engine ... if I am not wrong.

Get a life and spare this forum if you don't have anything useful to say. Paks share in jf17 has been discussed to death on this forum alone. If not, go back to your trash talk forums where abusing/ insulting non indian members is the sole modus operandi.

@The Eagle

RAFALE has a better chance to survive than Block-3 because of its have better EW/ECM (SPECTRA), we don't nothing about which EW/ECM package on block-3

Spectra will have it's work cut out against Aesa seeker equipped incoming threat. It's never tested nor was meant to counter anything similar. Even the radar will give it major headaches.

Spectra will come into play if rafale managed to narrow the gap to 50-60km or less. Pl-15 will make short work of it much earlier.

 

[Dazzler]

I'm sure the BLK3 ECM/EW package has been enhanced based on intel from Qatar & other sources including from within the iaf (thank you ISI) on the ecm/ew capabilities of the rafale. after the first rafales' arrival, BLK3 was delayed for a reason. I'm confident that the BLK3 carries a lot of nasty surprises for our eastern neighbor.

Blk 3 has a comprehensive EW management system that monitors and launches countermeasures based on the threat. It can be augmented with external ecm/ew pods. Previous blks had ew suite controllers + pods.

No dude -

1 - JF17 Block III has a first shot advantage with the PL15. You cannot disregard the difference and magic away the advantage.
2 - PAF has better datalinks and data/network centric warfare systems in place compared to the IAF, so that the low RCS advantage of the Rafale is negated by a better integrated radar network by the PAF and better datalinks..

And better AWACS coverage.

 

[denel]

Blk 3 has a comprehensive EW management system that monitors and launches countermeasures based on the threat. It can be augmented with external ecm/ew pods. Previous blks had ew suite controllers + pods.


And better AWACS coverage.

True - BUT, here are my 2c from sigs view point.

1. There needs to be a very concerted effort to monitor and gather signals intelligence from these Rafales. I am sure there are thoughts on how to bait these birds to see what they can do.
2. Countermeasures will be developed.
3. Just because PL-15 is there does not mean it will work. A comprehensive battery of tests in a very EW saturated environment needs to be conducted in conjuction with Falcon to see whether or not AESA of JF17b3 hold up or not. The last thing you need is a blind radar.
4. Evaluate PL-15 vs how Spectre behaved and if needed replicate behaviour of Spectre as part of overall tests. Two things you must always remember - Sensitivity and Selectivity - both of these need to work properly to get thru.

 

[SQ8]

True - BUT, here are my 2c from sigs view point.

1. There needs to be a very concerted effort to monitor and gather signals intelligence from these Rafales. I am sure there are thoughts on how to bait these birds to see what they can do.
2. Countermeasures will be developed.
3. Just because PL-15 is there does not mean it will work. A comprehensive battery of tests in a very EW saturated environment needs to be conducted in conjuction with Falcon to see whether or not AESA of JF17b3 hold up or not.
4. Evaluate PL-15 vs how Spectre behaved and if needed replicate behaviour of Spectre as part of overall tests. Two things you must always remember - Sensitivity and Selectivity - both of these need to work properly to get thru.

The Chinese flew their Y-8 ELINT platforms everyday the token Indian Rafale’s were in the air during their “confrontation” last year. Sometimes two at time.

 

[Dazzler]

True - BUT, here are my 2c from sigs view point.

1. There needs to be a very concerted effort to monitor and gather signals intelligence from these Rafales. I am sure there are thoughts on how to bait these birds to see what they can do.
2. Countermeasures will be developed.
3. Just because PL-15 is there does not mean it will work. A comprehensive battery of tests in a very EW saturated environment needs to be conducted in conjuction with Falcon to see whether or not AESA of JF17b3 hold up or not. The last thing you need is a blind radar.
4. Evaluate PL-15 vs how Spectre behaved and if needed replicate behaviour of Spectre as part of overall tests. Two things you must always remember - Sensitivity and Selectivity - both of these need to work properly to get thru.

Arrangements are in place.