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JF-17 fighter jet gets J-20’s combat missile: reports (Global times)

The Chinese flew their Y-8 ELINT platforms everyday the token Indian Rafale’s were in the air during their “confrontation” last year. Sometimes two at time.
Correct - there will be a dual axis attempt from the north or on the eastern front to gather, understand and evaluation entire capability of Rafale. There is always nothing to lose by invoking multiple attempts to engage into the airspace to get them into a full combat mode but then tracking back.

A very common tactic.
Arrangements are in place.
Absolutely, as I had said from the 2019 encounter, i would love to see the waterfall on what was coming thru.
 
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@SQ8 @Dazzler

Is SPECTRA really such a mythical creature it’s made out to be or is it more or less similar to the integrated ECM/EW suite found in almost all modern fighters now, including JF17 (specially block 3).

What’s so special about SPECTRA compared to other integrated ECM/EW suites?

@denel too.

Can you guys break it down and provide some insight?
 
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@SQ8 @Dazzler

Is SPECTRA really such a mythical creature it’s made out to be or is it more or less similar to the integrated ECM/EW suit found in almost all modern fighters now, including JF17 (specially block 3).
It is nothing mythical frankly. It can and will be taken apart. in the world of EW - 2 years is the most a techonology worth its while.
 
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@SQ8 @Dazzler

Is SPECTRA really such a mythical creature it’s made out to be or is it more or less similar to the integrated ECM/EW suit found in almost all modern fighters now, including JF17 (specially block 3).

It's good but nothing exceptional. Indians have a habit of exaggerating things. Raptor of the east bit the dust on 27th now they need something to worship. Voila Raphael ki Jay ho.
 
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It is nothing mythical frankly. It can and will be taken apart. in the world of EW - 2 years is the most a techonology worth its while.
I understand. It’s a cat and mouse game. But what differentiating factors does spectra has compared to other integrated EW suites. When I read what available in the open source, it was more or less same as other suites.

- Threat sensors (RWR, MAWS, etc)
- automated chaff/flare dispensers
- internal jammers
- capability to leverage (more powerful) external jammers

Thats pretty much what all modern EW/ECM do, in pretty much all modern fighters now. So what makes SPECTRA apart? I am genuinely curious.

In fact, I found more novelty in gripen where it can perform cooperative jamming. Would love for JF17 to develop this next level capability.
 
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I understand. It’s a cat and mouse game. But what differenciatong factors does spectra has compared to other integrated EW suites. When I read what available in the open source, it was more or less same as other suites.

- Threat sensors (RWR, MAWS, etc)
- automated chaff/flare dispensers
- internal jammers
- capability to leverage (more powerful) external jammers

Thats pretty much what all modern EW/ECM do in pretty much all modern fighters now. So what makes SPECTRA apart? I am genuinely curious.

It's a fancy name given to a EW management system. Guess what, blk 3 has one in place. It's similar to j10c EW system. In fact, it's visible in the latest pic.
 
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It's a fancy name given to a EW management system. Guess what, blk 3 has one in place. It's similar to j10c EW system. In fact, it's visible in the latest pic.
Eagerly waiting for the picture breakdown you promised :)
 
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Eagerly waiting for the picture breakdown you promised :)

Sensors on horizontal wing tips. J10c has these at canard front.

IMG_20210504_000426.jpg



IMG_20210504_000956.jpg
 
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@SQ8 @Dazzler

Is SPECTRA really such a mythical creature it’s made out to be or is it more or less similar to the integrated ECM/EW suite found in almost all modern fighters now, including JF17 (specially block 3).

What’s so special about SPECTRA compared to other integrated ECM/EW suites?
Lets start with the package itself - whatever SPECTRA was touted as was based on its introduction as revolutionary (which it was) in the 90’s.

electromagnetic, laser and infrared domains, employing smart data fusion from multi-spectral sensors to provide identification, location, jamming and decoying against a wide range of threats.

SPECTRA is built on a system of receivers and countermeasures. RF (radio frequency) detectors employ sophisticated techniques such as interferometry for high-precision direction-of-arrival and passive ranging, and digital frequency memory for signal coherence. The system also employs accurate laser warning detectors with direction-finding capability, and a passive infrared missile warning system. Data from all three sensor suites are fused and processed by a central computer, which prioritises and activates the relevant countermeasures, based upon comparison between the received signals and an onboard threat library.


Now - compare that same description to AIDEWS which is on the block 52 internally and as a pod for the MLUs.

The ALQ-211 family of systems detects, denies, disrupts, degrades and evades lethal threats and provides multi-spectral (radio frequency, infrared and laser) situational awareness. When the aircrew encounters a threat emission, the ALQ-211 establishes the threat range from the mission aircraft. If an aircraft is in lethal range of the threat, the ALQ-211 initiates an integrated instantaneous response, breaking missile lock through RF countermeasures, and cues the use of chaff and flares. As the aircraft’s survivability suite controller, the ALQ-211 coordinates the response for laser and infrared threats, providing a truly integrated approach to aircraft self-protection.”

How much of this sounds the same? The threat library is updated via the EW on the block-52s and passive on the pods.

The AIDEWS is the more current system in terms of architecture and design although SPECTRA has had its own updates for the F4 standard for India.

Now the system on the block-3 does exactly what SPECTRA does but may have 2-3 EW recievers to the SPECTRAs 6-8.

The AIDEWS threat library is updated also based upon what the US DoD releases to Pakistan that may include whatever basic(not complete) info they have on the SPECTRA.

So, if the PAF has experience with a system that works exactly like SPECTRA and then the Chinese spent 2 months sucking up all the electronic emissions coming off the Rafale’s - there definitely is some base information to go off into adding to the PL-15 to tell it when it may ascertain the Rafale trying to spoof it and it trying to eliminate those spoofs from its sensor feed in going after it.

That doesn’t mean the PAF(or PLAAF) have solved the Rafale and it still remains the dominant weapons system and package in the subcontinent for a good time - but it does mean that the Rafale isn’t going to have a cake walk everywhere it goes.
 
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Lets start with the package itself - whatever SPECTRA was touted as was based on its introduction as revolutionary (which it was) in the 90’s.

electromagnetic, laser and infrared domains, employing smart data fusion from multi-spectral sensors to provide identification, location, jamming and decoying against a wide range of threats.

SPECTRA is built on a system of receivers and countermeasures. RF (radio frequency) detectors employ sophisticated techniques such as interferometry for high-precision direction-of-arrival and passive ranging, and digital frequency memory for signal coherence. The system also employs accurate laser warning detectors with direction-finding capability, and a passive infrared missile warning system. Data from all three sensor suites are fused and processed by a central computer, which prioritises and activates the relevant countermeasures, based upon comparison between the received signals and an onboard threat library.


Now - compare that same description to AIDEWS which is on the block 52 internally and as a pod for the MLUs.

The ALQ-211 family of systems detects, denies, disrupts, degrades and evades lethal threats and provides multi-spectral (radio frequency, infrared and laser) situational awareness. When the aircrew encounters a threat emission, the ALQ-211 establishes the threat range from the mission aircraft. If an aircraft is in lethal range of the threat, the ALQ-211 initiates an integrated instantaneous response, breaking missile lock through RF countermeasures, and cues the use of chaff and flares. As the aircraft’s survivability suite controller, the ALQ-211 coordinates the response for laser and infrared threats, providing a truly integrated approach to aircraft self-protection.”

How much of this sounds the same? The threat library is updated via the EW on the block-52s and passive on the pods.

The AIDEWS is the more current system in terms of architecture and design although SPECTRA has had its own updates for the F4 standard for India.

Now the system on the block-3 does exactly what SPECTRA does but may have 2-3 EW recievers to the SPECTRAs 6-8.

The AIDEWS threat library is updated also based upon what the US DoD releases to Pakistan that may include whatever basic(not complete) info they have on the SPECTRA.

So, if the PAF has experience with a system that works exactly like SPECTRA and then the Chinese spent 2 months sucking up all the electronic emissions coming off the Rafale’s - there definitely is some base information to go off into adding to the PL-15 to tell it when it may ascertain the Rafale trying to spoof it and it trying to eliminate those spoofs from its sensor feed in going after it.

That doesn’t mean the PAF(or PLAAF) have solved the Rafale and it still remains the dominant weapons system and package in the subcontinent for a good time - but it does mean that the Rafale isn’t going to have a cake walk everywhere it goes.
This clarifies it pretty much.

Couple of points. while we have to (are in process of solving SPECTRA). Indians have to solve ours, so it’s not one way. In fact, we may have a slight edge in the process through Chinese ELINT activities.

On the other hand, while SPECTRA has DRFM, we are lacking it. That hopefully could be another improvement for JF17 in the future, along with towed decoys and cooperative jamming.

The rest as I gather from your breakdown. It’s more or less similar capability fielded by aircrafts on both sides, with slight spec advantage here and there. Unlike how it is projected by our neighbors as kill all, rule all capability.
 
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This clarifies it pretty much.

Couple of points. while we have to (are in process of solving SPECTRA). Indians have to solve ours, so it’s not one way. In fact, we may have a slight edge in the process through Chinese ELINT activities.

On the other hand, while SPECTRA has DRFM, we are lacking it. That hopefully could be another improvement for JF17 in the future.

On 27th, blk 2 spoofed their mirages and mkis. Guess why.
 
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DRFM is not the only goodie. They couldn't see the thunder coming when it passed near the LOC months ago remember?
So basically it’s approaching parity in terms of EW with Rafale.

It’s just annoying seeing posts touting SPECTRA as almost alien technology.
 
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This clarifies it pretty much.

Couple of points. while we have to (are in process of solving SPECTRA). Indians have to solve ours, so it’s not one way. In fact, we may have a slight edge in the process through Chinese ELINT activities.

On the other hand, while SPECTRA has DRFM, we are lacking it. That hopefully could be another improvement for JF17 in the future, along with towed decoys and cooperative jamming.

The rest as I gather from your breakdown. It’s more or less similar capability fielded by aircrafts on both sides, with slight spec advantage here and there. Unlike how it is projected by our neighbors as kill all, rule all capability.
Dazzler has hinted enough for the bold - and yes the Indians too are working at a war footing and they have well qualified folks that trump us in many places too.
 
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