JF-17 Block III Multirole Fighter

[ARMalik]

Why would the COAS get involved in the affairs for PAF? Or is it CAS?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

You kids just want to write about weapons without any substance or resource.

No weapons system s complete by itself---. It needs a complimentary system in place to maximize its utility.

A utility may arise from a different resource that was never anticipated before---like a smart weapon---like a standoff weapon---.

You build an F22 and an F35 and after all the rararara you find out---that the BVR missile utility is not the only solution---.

As your BVR missile has developed over the years---so has the smart weapons / standoff weapons ability has grown as well---.

Where you could launch a 250 lb smart weapon from 25 miles away 20 years ago---today you can launch a mach 5 standoff 2000 lbs weapon with a 500 lbs load from 250 miles away from an aircraft or a cruise missile as well.

Now that is where the marriage between the 5th gen stealth and the 3rd gen strike aircraft becomes inevitable.

The 5th gen aircraft will move in as close to the target as possible---lock the target and launch the standoff missile from the 3rd gen aircraft flying 250 miles away---.

Mr. Pasha---do you have any understanding of this concept yet---.

The pilot of the 3rd gen aircraft would be doing nothing---but just flying the aircraft and his weapons system would be controlled by someone else from somewhere else---and launch signal given---.

When you buy a weapon---you have to buy it to fight tomorrow's war that is coming down fast---30 / 35 years down the road is the work of a different generation---.

Seems like---most of you kids do not have any understanding of this concept---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I dont see a single Pakistani in that picture...

 

[FuturePAF]

No you're wrong again PAF chief clearly said that " our ambitions is to develop full fledged 5th gen MANNED jet and HALE (high altitude long endurance) type UAV not a Stealth drone or UACV"

got it, my apologies, thanks for the clarification

Hi,

You kids just want to write about weapons without any substance or resource.

No weapons system s complete by itself---. It needs a complimentary system in place to maximize its utility.

A utility may arise from a different resource that was never anticipated before---like a smart weapon---like a standoff weapon---.

You build an F22 and an F35 and after all the rararara you find out---that the BVR missile utility is not the only solution---.

As your BVR missile has developed over the years---so has the smart weapons / standoff weapons ability has grown as well---.

Where you could launch a 250 lb smart weapon from 25 miles away 20 years ago---today you can launch a mach 5 standoff 2000 lbs weapon with a 500 lbs load from 250 miles away from an aircraft or a cruise missile as well.

Now that is where the marriage between the 5th gen stealth and the 3rd gen strike aircraft becomes inevitable.

The 5th gen aircraft will move in as close to the target as possible---lock the target and launch the standoff missile from the 3rd gen aircraft flying 250 miles away---.

Mr. Pasha---do you have any understanding of this concept yet---.

The pilot of the 3rd gen aircraft would be doing nothing---but just flying the aircraft and his weapons system would be controlled by someone else from somewhere else---and launch signal given---.

When you buy a weapon---you have to buy it to fight tomorrow's war that is coming down fast---30 / 35 years down the road is the work of a different generation---.

Seems like---most of you kids do not have any understanding of this concept---.

MastanKhan,

I sense your frustration with us "kids", but I think we discussing two different missions. It seems you believe Deep Strikes will be the primary mission of any up coming war (which I don't disagree will be a large part) but I think a lot of us are thinking at least partial air superiority will have to be won first before that mission can be accomplished successfully. I for one don't promote the razzle dazzle newfangled stealth tech for its own sake, but rather for the mission of using an aircraft in the JF-17 class to win against other fighters like the Su-30MKI and F-16/Gripen(whatever India picks), and to be able to intercept Rafales (which are meant for deep strike) on an equal footing, because they will be faced in larger numbers than we would have defending against them, and they will have S-400 or similar air defense close to air bases/high value areas.

PGM for CAS can be carried by any jet or turboprop powered manned or unmanned platforms, and longe range PGM can be carried by same aircrafts or PGM mounted on guided artillery Rockets (such as the GLSDB).

Don't You think holding at least partial air superiority will be of utmost importance, followed by having the ability to carry out deep PGM Strikes?

 

[MastanKhan]

got it, my apologies, thanks for the clarification



MastanKhan,

I sense your frustration with us "kids", but I think we discussing two different missions. It seems you believe Deep Strikes will be the primary mission of any up coming war (which I don't disagree will be a large part) but I think a lot of us are thinking at least partial air superiority will have to be won first before that mission can be accomplished successfully. I for one don't promote the razzle dazzle newfangled stealth tech for its own sake, but rather for the mission of using an aircraft in the JF-17 class to win against other fighters like the Su-30MKI and F-16/Gripen(whatever India picks), and to be able to intercept Rafales (which are meant for deep strike) on an equal footing, because they will be faced in larger numbers than we would have defending against them, and they will have S-400 or similar air defense close to air bases/high value areas.

PGM for CAS can be carried by any jet or turboprop powered manned or unmanned platforms, and longe range PGM can be carried by same aircrafts or PGM mounted on guided artillery Rockets (such as the GLSDB).

Don't You think holding at least partial air superiority will be of utmost importance, followed by having the ability to carry out deep PGM Strikes?

Hi,

When I talk about the deep strike missions---they are all about over the sea and ocean---.

So---the most important part is DEEP STRIKE WHERE & HOW?

You fly away from Pasni go straight down make a left turn launch from standoff distance and be gone---. The S400 cannot reach you out on the ocean 250 miles away----the coastline is my target---.

There are multiple targets of opportunity on the coastline---.

The JF17's are a piecemeal for the SU30's---.

Aamir Hussein had posted a wonderful video abut an F22 air combat and how it would utilize the B1's---.

@Khafee had post a map of the strike plan---as I have also posted a map of the strike area---.

I have written multiple times about how the F22 and F35 would use the older strike aircraft---but as most of you have no concept and understanding---and no ability to take a hint and search the web or YOUTUBE---most of younger people cannot look beyond their noses.

There is a search engine---pak kids need to learn to use it---there is youtube---pak kids need to learn to use it---.

There is a world of KNOWLEDGE in the videos on youtube---.

There is no partial air superiority---. Paf needs to be able to hit the underbelly of the enemy---and that is the coastline cities.

Why do you think the USAF has REFURBISHED the B52's recently---and for what purpose---why are the B1's being re-furbished and for what reason---have you guys looked into it---and asked why?

Why---because the americans have found out that the F22's and the F35's cannot do the job---period---they need the help of these older heavies to do most of the work---.

If the USAF think that is how it needs to be done---then how the FCK can Paf think otherwise---?

 

[CriticalThought]

The JF17's are a piecemeal for the SU30's---.

BS

There is a world of KNOWLEDGE in the videos on youtube---.

Utter BS

@Oscar

Why do you think the USAF has REFURBISHED the B52's recently---and for what purpose---why are the B1's being re-furbished and for what reason---have you guys looked into it---and asked why?

Why---because the americans have found out that the F22's and the F35's cannot do the job---period---they need the help of these older heavies to do most of the work---.

Stinking BS

 

[Development C&P]

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-12-29/doc-ifyqcwaq5693544.shtml

　　报道也确认了枭龙第三批改进型内部的若干变动，由于需要使用新型雷达（预计是中国研制的KLJ-7A有源相控阵雷达）以及新型航电，包括全新电子战系统，第三批内部有不少变化。报道指出“座舱通风管改走向”，而且难度很大，为此进行多次攻关，最终在环控、结构、强度方面多次推翻重来，最终完成了这一重大改进。

The report also confirmed a number of changes in the JF-17BLOCK3 improved internal,Due to the need to use the new radar (which is expected to be developed in China KLJ-7A active phased array radar) and the new avionics,Including the new electronic warfare system, there are many changes within the BLOCK3.The report pointed out that "the orientation of the cockpit ventilation pipe was changed", and it was very difficult to carry out many tackling problems in this regard. In the end, it repeatedly overthrown the control, structure and strength and finally completed this major improvement.


　　此外，报道点出了若干无线电发射设备的变动，可能与新的电子战系统有关。报道指出经过攻关，实现发射器无需凸起的鼓包天线罩。这是一大突破，因为过去无线电发射器一般要求外露在机身以外，以保证有效收发，“埋入”机身内的发射器是近年第五代战斗机的技术特征之一，有利于隐身、降低阻力和简化维护维修工作。

In addition, the report points to changes in several radio transmitting equipment that may be related to the new electronic warfare system.The report pointed out that after research, to achieve launchers without bulging radome.This is a major breakthrough. In the past, radio transmitters were generally required to be exposed outside the fuselage in order to ensure effective transceiver. The "buried" fuselage launcher is one of the technical characteristics of the fifth generation fighter in recent years, which is conducive to stealth, Reduce drag and simplify maintenance and repair work.


WOW~
It seems to confirm that some of the technologies of the Five Dynasties have begun to be applied to Thunder~

 

[sparten]

They're waiting because (1) some technology has not been available to the PAF, and if it is, needs some time to mature and be production-ready (i.e. AESA radar, HMD/S, etc) and (2) the PAF wants to make sure its subsystem selections work together the appropriate level right from the start.

Actually, I have heard that AESA/HMD are ready, it’s the redesign to carry more ordinance which has led to the delay.

They should start equipping Front line Sqd with HMD.

 

[Clutch]

Actually, I have heard that AESA/HMD are ready, it’s the redesign to carry more ordinance which has led to the delay.

They should start equipping Front line Sqd with HMD.

References? How have they overcome the issue of AESA radars larger power consumption and the detrimental impact on performance due to loss of power from the engine????

I dont see a single Pakistani in that picture...

We will tell them to include a pakistani in the next picture.

I'm pretty sure the R&D and rest of the JF-17 project team consists of more than 22 people... don't you think?

 

[Mentee]

BS



Utter BS

@Oscar



Stinking BS

so , this is all yiu could come up with ? Quite impressive and insecure too

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

When I talk about the deep strike missions---they are all about over the sea and ocean---.

So---the most important part is DEEP STRIKE WHERE & HOW?

You fly away from Pasni go straight down make a left turn launch from standoff distance and be gone---. The S400 cannot reach you out on the ocean 250 miles away----the coastline is my target---.

There are multiple targets of opportunity on the coastline---.

The JF17's are a piecemeal for the SU30's---.

Aamir Hussein had posted a wonderful video abut an F22 air combat and how it would utilize the B1's---.

@Khafee had post a map of the strike plan---as I have also posted a map of the strike area---.

I have written multiple times about how the F22 and F35 would use the older strike aircraft---but as most of you have no concept and understanding---and no ability to take a hint and search the web or YOUTUBE---most of younger people cannot look beyond their noses.

There is a search engine---pak kids need to learn to use it---there is youtube---pak kids need to learn to use it---.

There is a world of KNOWLEDGE in the videos on youtube---.

There is no partial air superiority---. Paf needs to be able to hit the underbelly of the enemy---and that is the coastline cities.

Why do you think the USAF has REFURBISHED the B52's recently---and for what purpose---why are the B1's being re-furbished and for what reason---have you guys looked into it---and asked why?

Why---because the americans have found out that the F22's and the F35's cannot do the job---period---they need the help of these older heavies to do most of the work---.

If the USAF think that is how it needs to be done---then how the FCK can Paf think otherwise---?

calm down MastanKhan, no need to swear Uncle

I can't speak for others, but i post links to YouTube videos all the time here on PDF, to back up my arguments. Either videos or pictures/design from official government program from all over the world.

there was a YouTube video about the future of stealth; where a proposed B-1R would be used as the munition truck, in support of f-22s. guidance would come from the stealth fighter up front and the B-1R would send volley after volley.

there are two things I would like to make. the USAF and other branches are inducting over 3000 F-35s, so their fighter fleet with be eventually become a majority stealth fighter force. if that wasn't necessary as far as their doctrine thought they wouldn't have pursued it; they are more than capable of upgrading F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s, but stealth fighter make a difference. this is even more important for PAF as we are at a numerical disadvantage.

secondly the B-52's and B-1 will be able to launch standoff when there is contested airspace (heck even the c-17 is shown in some YouTube videos launching stand off PGMs) , but a lot of targets are targets of opportunity, and the spotter will need to be the shooter. a stealth fighter can get into contested air space, spot a convoy of TEL Launchers, for example, and launch SDBs at them.

if you know of targets on the coast, then ground launched cruise missiles are the option to go for. fly map of the earth all the way to the target. why don't we just develop longer range stealth cruise missiles and cut out the aircraft to carry them, which can be intercepted and shot down; something like the AGM-129 or AGM-158 but ground launched.

long range Malds can lead the way and jam enemy sensors along the coast and the stealth cruise missiles can knock out their pre-planned targets.

in the end we will need our stealth fighter to counter their air force because they will also do something similar, but will be using their fighter to look for targets of opportunity in our territory, we need to defend against such raids.
-----------
our mission should be "to break their knee caps and break their links with their commanders"; i.e. target vital nodes for mobility and decision making making. The PN knows this; that iss why if you visit PNS Tippu Sultan; just behind the FM-90 missiles, underneath the bridge is (i maybe mistaken but this from memory from 2005 from it NY visit) Surah 8 verse 12: "I am with you: so keep the Believers steadfast. I am now going to fill the hearts of the disbelievers with awe: so smite their necks and beat every joint of their bodies"

wee should be fighting holistically; ask the Chinese to help use build a modern cyber force. on the ground the guerrilla tactics on the 2006 mid-east war shows shoot and scoot to be a winning option to wear down an enemy. this is why making our JF-17 just a little better then good enough should do the trick; we can't afford too much, be we can't afford not to invest in being cutting edge either.

References:

 

[Dungeness]

I dont see a single Pakistani in that picture...

These are only CPC members in "Thunder Block III" R&D team, who usually are leaders/supervisors among peers and work on longer shifts and take heavier workloads. As mentioned in the article, these members are working on 6/11 schedule, meaning 11 hours per day, 6 days a week.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Counter him with valid arguments

BS



Utter BS

@Oscar



Stinking BS

 

[MastanKhan]

calm down MastanKhan, no need to swear Uncle

I can't speak for others, but i post links to YouTube videos all the time here on PDF, to back up my arguments. Either videos or pictures/design from official government program from all over the world.

there was a YouTube video about the future of stealth; where a proposed B-1R would be used as the munition truck, in support of f-22s. guidance would come from the stealth fighter up front and the B-1R would send volley after volley.

there are two things I would like to make. the USAF and other branches are inducting over 3000 F-35s, so their fighter fleet with be eventually become a majority stealth fighter force. if that wasn't necessary as far as their doctrine thought they wouldn't have pursued it; they are more than capable of upgrading F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s, but stealth fighter make a difference. this is even more important for PAF as we are at a numerical disadvantage.

secondly the B-52's and B-1 will be able to launch standoff when there is contested airspace (heck even the c-17 is shown in some YouTube videos launching stand off PGMs) , but a lot of targets are targets of opportunity, and the spotter will need to be the shooter. a stealth fighter can get into contested air space, spot a convoy of TEL Launchers, for example, and launch SDBs at them.

if you know of targets on the coast, then ground launched cruise missiles are the option to go for. fly map of the earth all the way to the target. why don't we just develop longer range stealth cruise missiles and cut out the aircraft to carry them, which can be intercepted and shot down; something like the AGM-129 or AGM-158 but ground launched.

long range Malds can lead the way and jam enemy sensors along the coast and the stealth cruise missiles can knock out their pre-planned targets.

in the end we will need our stealth fighter to counter their air force because they will also do something similar, but will be using their fighter to look for targets of opportunity in our territory, we need to defend against such raids.
-----------
our mission should be "to break their knee caps and break their links with their commanders"; i.e. target vital nodes for mobility and decision making making. The PN knows this; that iss why if you visit PNS Tippu Sultan; just behind the FM-90 missiles, underneath the bridge is (i maybe mistaken but this from memory from 2005 from it NY visit) Surah 8 verse 12: "I am with you: so keep the Believers steadfast. I am now going to fill the hearts of the disbelievers with awe: so smite their necks and beat every joint of their bodies"

wee should be fighting holistically; ask the Chinese to help use build a modern cyber force. on the ground the guerrilla tactics on the 2006 mid-east war shows shoot and scoot to be a winning option to wear down an enemy. this is why making our JF-17 just a little better then good enough should do the trick; we can't afford too much, be we can't afford not to invest in being cutting edge either.

References:

Hi,

Cruise missiles don't have the flexibility of movement that the aircraft have.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

Cruise missiles don't have the flexibility of movement that the aircraft have.

They also don't have the cost. A well studied mix of both fighter and ground/sea based cruise missiles should be a economical way to meet our needs. Its about having the right strategy within the confines of your ability.