JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Dazzler]

Since PAF has primarily used western ew system (Indra first and now rumored Turkish) do we still need to discuss the Chinese angle? I agree, Chinese EW systems are not as good as advertised.

The same cannot be said about some of their more modern systems. The KG-600/RKL-700 SPJ is indeed impressive, a welcome improvement over legacy systems.

 

[MastanKhan]

While a modern AESA is great, there may be some environments where even a radar can be jammed enough to significantly degrade its performance. Furthermore, as the Indian Spice Jet airline incident taught us, we need to be able to visually identify an unknown jet as far out as possible. Electronic means could be made to trick Pakistan to place the lives of a passenger jet (or own own fighter pilots be lured into a trap).

Hi,

The indians tried to create a drama and we played our part in that drama---.

Indians may have started it but we followed our procedure in that dramatic part and may have taken it a bit further to rub the opponents nose a little bit---.

We were not that innocent standby observers---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

The indians tried to create a drama and we played our part in that drama---.

Indians may have started it but we followed our procedure in that dramatic part and may have taken it a bit further to rub the opponents nose a little bit---.

We were not that innocent standby observers---.

The PAF did the right thing, keeping the plane under its watchful eye all through our airspace. The issue as presented by Dr. Moeed Pirzada, was the risk of being tricked into engage an unknown aircraft based on IFF or radar returns. The addition of an IRST pod with a decent range could allow the PAF fighters flying CAP to positively visually identify unknowns and better employ tactics and techniques, should the next time another ruse be part of a larger effort to use SAMs or other means to shoot down our fighters.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Does the B model store fuel in its vertical tail?

I am quiet certain that the "Green" indicate change to composite material to bring the weight down.

 

[Code_Geass]

It was first reported by indian print media then it was picked up by us.

The PAF did the right thing, keeping the plane under its watchful eye all through our airspace. The issue as presented by Dr. Moeed Pirzada, was the risk of being tricked into engage an unknown aircraft based on IFF or radar returns. The addition of an IRST pod with a decent range could allow the PAF fighters flying CAP to positively visually identify unknowns and better employ tactics and techniques, should the next time another ruse be part of a larger effort to use SAMs or other means to shoot down our fighters.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Pakistan’s Upgraded JF-17 Block 3 Prototype Takes First Test Flight
Posted 2 hours ago by Sajawal Rehman

• Pakistan Rolls Out The First Batch of Dual Seat JF-17 Aircraft
  
  While the prototype tagged with a serial number 3000 was missing the helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system and radar, the finished product will be equipped with both. The aircraft was also missing the in-flight refueling (IFR) probe and other design elements which shows that it was an early-stage design test by the CAC. The later stages will involve the integration of intended subsystems such as:
  
  • Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar
  • RWR
  • MAWS
  • Special mission pods
  • Air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions
  The new features include a wide-angle holographic system and a new head-up display (HUD) much like the J-20.
  
  In addition, the upgraded combat aircraft features an advanced infrared missile approach warning system. China’s J-10C, J-16, and J-20 fighter jets are all using a similar missile warning system. A new three-axis digital fly-by-wire (FBW) suite will replace the hybrid flight control system much like the twin-seat JF-17B.
  
  The inauguration of an integration facility at PAC could possibly mean that the later stages of development and testing might take place in Pakistan to integrate avionics and weapon systems of choice with JF-17 aircraft, according to the defense analysis group.
  
  According to the reports, PAF will be procuring 50 JF-17 Block IIIs, with the first two to be completed in 2020. In the next 4 years till 2024, 12 aircraft will be rolled out annually.
  
  According to defense experts, the use of mature off-the-shelf commercial technologies from the Aviation Industry Corporation of China is to ensure cost-effectiveness as well as to improve flight efficiency so that the pilot can focus more on combat rather than flying.
  

 

[FuturePAF]

It was first reported by indian print media then it was picked up by us.

Its not the reporting but the deeper analysis done by our media, that revealed a potential threat, which I believe the addition of a few dozen IRST pods int he PAF inventory should help alleviate.

It could very well be the case the PAF F-16s flew with their Sniper pods, and were able to Identify the jet far enough away to not have to consider engage the unknown contact.

While the Sniper pod is a great system, a dedicated IRST pod could help extent the range far enough to not only positively identify unknown aircraft, but help identify other enemy activity in a passive manner, allowing our fighters to employ the best tactics and techniques, and use their aircraft in the best possible manner.

 

[Sulemanms202]

watching indian videoss on tejas vs jf 17 comparison

1. starts with discussing class of fighters and presenters usually ends this part with claim on the part of IAF that suggested IAF plane will be considered THE BEST in that CLASS (PERIOD: like a boss)

2. in second part with head on comparison presenter describes, states and calculates various facts and figures on both planes; this part is usually consumed in presenting facts & figures as if opponent is some duffer student of class and presenter and his team (IAF) has somehow trumped this duffer student's ideas and has now become the star of the show

3. so, in the last part: with all the WISDOM based on facts(twisted and incomplete knowledge i might add) & figures (based on their OWN analysis) presenter usually finishes video with a claim which is another (bigger) claim on the first claim e.g first presenter will claim IAF's plane is better in THAT class only but when the video that CLASS BEST plane all the sudden becomes BEST PLANE in THAT GENERATION (PERIOD).

and im not joking in any way; im serious... they will start by saying tejas is better is light weight category class but then after comparison they will make another (bigger than first claim) that not only tejas is not only better in that class; it is also THE BEST fighter in that whole generation..

simple question to such men of wisdon; why the whole flock is not buying like crazy THIS BEST IN CLASS fighter; if its THAT GOOD?!

 

[NA71]

cheenee mein post hay bhai - kahan say parhein

I translated ...post #4348

 

[MastanKhan]

The PAF did the right thing, keeping the plane under its watchful eye all through our airspace. The issue as presented by Dr. Moeed Pirzada, was the risk of being tricked into engage an unknown aircraft based on IFF or radar returns. The addition of an IRST pod with a decent range could allow the PAF fighters flying CAP to positively visually identify unknowns and better employ tactics and techniques, should the next time another ruse be part of a larger effort to use SAMs or other means to shoot down our fighters.

Hi,

The F16---JF17's---their radar should tell them what aircraft they are looking at---civilian or military and what kind---.

With the onset of BVR missile---there would be no more VISUAL identity checks in a hot zone for a SUSPECT aircraft or your aircraft would be hard pressed to get closer---. A suspect aircraft is by default a military aircraft---the library bank of your detecting radar should have a library of aircraft signatures---.

watching indian videoss on tejas vs jf 17 comparison

1. starts with discussing class of fighters and presenters usually ends this part with claim on the part of IAF that suggested IAF plane will be considered THE BEST in that CLASS (PERIOD: like a boss)

2. in second part with head on comparison presenter describes, states and calculates various facts and figures on both planes; this part is usually consumed in presenting facts & figures as if opponent is some duffer student of class and presenter and his team (IAF) has somehow trumped this duffer student's ideas and has now become the star of the show

3. so, in the last part: with all the WISDOM based on facts(twisted and incomplete knowledge i might add) & figures (based on their OWN analysis) presenter usually finishes video with a claim which is another (bigger) claim on the first claim e.g first presenter will claim IAF's plane is better in THAT class only but when the video that CLASS BEST plane all the sudden becomes BEST PLANE in THAT GENERATION (PERIOD).

and im not joking in any way; im serious... they will start by saying tejas is better is light weight category class but then after comparison they will make another (bigger than first claim) that not only tejas is not only better in that class; it is also THE BEST fighter in that whole generation..

simple question to such men of wisdon; why the whole flock is not buying like crazy THIS BEST IN CLASS fighter; if its THAT GOOD?!

Hi,

Thank you for the post---. I would like to share another aspect---.

This kind of their self belief is extremely dangerous for us---for whence we are searching for peace and making peaceful overtures---they been been brainwashed into their being different and superior---.

The hindu culture of BJP / RSS in india is a great example of a nation facing " mass hypnotism "---. You just simply cannot argue with them---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

The F16---JF17's---their radar should tell them what aircraft they are looking at---civilian or military and what kind---.

With the onset of BVR missile---there would be no more VISUAL identity checks in a hot zone for a SUSPECT aircraft or your aircraft would be hard pressed to get closer---. A suspect aircraft is by default a military aircraft---the library bank of your detecting radar should have a library of aircraft signatures---.

That would be expected were the enemy not sending its passenger jets hoping to trick us into shooting it down. Modi’s IAF is a tool of his political plans. Should our radar pick up an enemy return or several close to a civilian airliner on the same route this spice jet was taking, what would our Air Force do. (Enemy fighters flying just under a civilian airliner)

As you stated, We would be forced to declare it hostile, and be forced to intercept it, if not engage it from BVR range. We would be hard pressed to present evidence to the world if we mistakenly shot down that airliner as stated in the media piece.

An IRST gives us visual confirmation (it might be required depending on our rules of engagement in the current non-full war state) and provides with visual evidence in the event we need to show the world what we faced, and that India caused the situation in the first place; a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[MastanKhan]

That would be expected were the enemy not sending its passenger jets hoping to trick us into shooting it down. Modi’s IAF is a tool of his political plans. Should our radar pick up an enemy return or several close to a civilian airliner on the same route this spice jet was taking, what would our Air Force do. (Enemy fighters flying just under a civilian airliner)

As you stated, We would be forced to declare it hostile, and be forced to intercept it, if not engage it from BVR range. We would be hard pressed to present evidence to the world if we mistakenly shot down that airliner as stated in the media piece.

An IRST gives us visual confirmation (it might be required depending on our rules of engagement in the current non-full war state) and provides with visual evidence in the event we need to show the world what we faced, and that India caused the situation in the first place; a picture is worth a thousand words.

Hi,

That is why aesa radar is very important---you cannot fool it by flying close.

From the front---it can literally count the number of blades in the fan if they are visible and from its data bank it knows what engine it is and which aircraft has it---. So the aircraft flying close will not be able to hide their identity from aesa---.

But---otoh---in aircraft like th JF17---F35---F22---where the intakes are offset from the engine---the aesa won't be able to read the type of engine because it cannot see the engine fan blades---. This information I got was about 10-12 years ago---.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Radar also factors in IFF.
IFF radar k sath hi chalta hai.

India(copying Israeli tactics) was trying to paint SpicJet flight as a bogey in Pakistani airspace, all the electronic signatures and callsigns emanating from the airliner indicated it was an intruder. Thank God PAF was cautious and showed restraint.

Hence the importance of IFF in addition to AESA.

Hi,

That is why aesa radar is very important---you cannot fool it by flying close.

From the front---it can literally count the number of blades in the fan if they are visible and from its data bank it knows what engine it is and which aircraft has it---. So the aircraft flying close will not be able to hide their identity from aesa---.

But---otoh---in aircraft like th JF17---F35---F22---where the intakes are offset from the engine---the aesa won't be able to read the type of engine because it cannot see the engine fan blades---. This information I got was about 10-12 years ago---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

That is why aesa radar is very important---you cannot fool it by flying close.

From the front---it can literally count the number of blades in the fan if they are visible and from its data bank it knows what engine it is and which aircraft has it---. So the aircraft flying close will not be able to hide their identity from aesa---.

But---otoh---in aircraft like th JF17---F35---F22---where the intakes are offset from the engine---the aesa won't be able to read the type of engine because it cannot see the engine fan blades---. This information I got was about 10-12 years ago---.

I grant you that Aesa radar are phenomenally capable, but in the RF spectrum. There are counters being develop to it, which the Indians hope their Rafales will be able to employ. The need for IRST to give a secondary, a passive, and a more public ally releasable form of evidence in the event a false flag attack is used against us, should be considered based on the asymmetrical threat being posed against us.

we don’t need a KAL 007 or USS Vincennes type incident throwing off our entire PR strategy when we are defending ourselves.

Radar also factors in IFF.
IFF radar k sath hi chalta hai.

India(copying Israeli tactics) was trying to paint SpicJet flight as a bogey in Pakistani airspace, all the electronic signatures and callsigns emanating from the airliner indicated it was an intruder. Thank God PAF was cautious and showed restraint.

Hence the importance of IFF in addition to AESA.

The spice jet’s IFF was squawking an Indian Military callsign. This is why an IRST with a separate IR image based threat library can help confirm or contradict the information from the radar and IFF.

 

[pkd]

Hi,

That is why aesa radar is very important---you cannot fool it by flying close.

From the front---it can literally count the number of blades in the fan if they are visible and from its data bank it knows what engine it is and which aircraft has it---. So the aircraft flying close will not be able to hide their identity from aesa---.

But---otoh---in aircraft like th JF17---F35---F22---where the intakes are offset from the engine---the aesa won't be able to read the type of engine because it cannot see the engine fan blades---. This information I got was about 10-12 years ago---.

We already have AESAs in the shape of Erieye (AEW&C) ) & ZDK-03 that can even scan the colons of the pilots sitting in the cockpit this far.