JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Marker]

I doubt air circulation being done in radome as there are no inlets. With air cooled in case of JF-17 we are probably getting a more efficient radar with less cooling needs, the heat exchange system itself is probably not changed.
Blk-3 radar was chosen couple of months if not just a year ago, that means it was designed to accept (power/cooling) any of the radar options KLJ-7A (non aircooled)/ Grifo-E and have spare cooling for future radars.

AVIC pitches air-cooled AESA radar for JF-17

The Aviation Industry Corporation of China’s (AVIC) 607 research institute announced that it completed the development of an air-cooled AESA radar

quwa.org

" The transceiver modules (TRM) of an AESA radar generate considerable heat that must be dissipated for the TRMs to function reliably (and not incur damage). This is currently done through liquid cooling, which necessitates additional space for the cooling system and additional electrical power. In contrast, the LETRI AESA radar draws from the cooling methods of current pulse-Doppler radars, which implies that this AESA radar can be fit to small aircraft with relative ease and at low-cost.

.....

The LETRI radar could potentially be a simpler affordable avenue for upgrading serving Block-I and Block-II. In fact, AVIC appears to be banking on that reality to secure orders – losing the Block-III to bid to NRIET or Leonardo would not preclude it from selling radars to the PAF. The PAF’s JF-17 Block-I/IIs would benefit from the benefits of an AESA radar without necessitating significant structural changes. "

An AVIC official says the airflow for cooling the radar comes from the aircraft’s environmental control system. This apparently obviates the need for drag-inducing ducting around the aircraft’s nose. (Keep it simple, stupid)

The radar operates in the X band and weighs 145kg. It can detect a fighter-sized target at 170km. It can track 15 targets simultaneously and engage four at the same time. It also has a surface search function. AVIC claims that it has a “strong anti-jamming capability.”

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/video-china-intent-on-aesa-radar-upgrades/130211.article

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

What's that ?

 

[Marker]

I doubt air circulation being done in radome as there are no inlets. With air cooled in case of JF-17 we are probably getting a more efficient radar with less cooling needs, the heat exchange system itself is probably not changed.
Blk-3 radar was chosen couple of months if not just a year ago, that means it was designed to accept (power/cooling) any of the radar options KLJ-7A (non aircooled)/ Grifo-E and have spare cooling for future radars.

AVIC pitches air-cooled AESA radar for JF-17

The Aviation Industry Corporation of China’s (AVIC) 607 research institute announced that it completed the development of an air-cooled AESA radar

quwa.org

" The transceiver modules (TRM) of an AESA radar generate considerable heat that must be dissipated for the TRMs to function reliably (and not incur damage). This is currently done through liquid cooling, which necessitates additional space for the cooling system and additional electrical power. In contrast, the LETRI AESA radar draws from the cooling methods of current pulse-Doppler radars, which implies that this AESA radar can be fit to small aircraft with relative ease and at low-cost.

.....

The LETRI radar could potentially be a simpler affordable avenue for upgrading serving Block-I and Block-II. In fact, AVIC appears to be banking on that reality to secure orders – losing the Block-III to bid to NRIET or Leonardo would not preclude it from selling radars to the PAF. The PAF’s JF-17 Block-I/IIs would benefit from the benefits of an AESA radar without necessitating significant structural changes. "

AESA TRMs individually operate at low powers, perhaps 40 to 60 watts, so the need for a large high-voltage power supply is eliminated. In case of KLJ-7A with 1000 TRMs, the total power requirement will be 40 to 60 kW.

Another interesting fact about AESA radar is that fixed AESA mount can help reduce an aircraft's overall radar cross section (RCS).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array

 

[CodeforFood]

I left this forum a while back. (Can't say why, as moderators delete it, as it hurts their feelings......)However I have to come back to address the nonsense that you have started to spout.

The above post has incensed me as you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You make vague statements hinting at some secret knowledge that you have somehow accumulated whilst not saying anything of substance.
--You talk to people with ACTUAL engineering and design expertise like you have some sort of special knowledge (You don't and never have) You are a car salesman end of story.
--You talk down to members who have published actual books on the subject---you are used car salesman who I doubt has published a book on that subject.
--You talk about "Capability" and errors that people make yet I doubt you have worn any kind of uniform in your life and the closest you have gotten to be shot at is when you have had a pissed off customer returning the lemon you sold them..

Just stop.......View attachment 777022

Hi there,
I have stopped actually participating and gone towards more observing and learning since I don't have the technical depth, considering discussion and participants level of expertise and knowledge. Although almost all of your points are fair, but why do you feel the need to be disrespectful? Could you not just reach out in private or even better point out something that is very visible for all to see?

I know this message is not relevant to discussion at hand. So I won't mind if mods delete it.

 

[Aesterix]

Check this.

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/type-klj-7a-airborne-aesa-radar-for-junk-f-17-block-iii-mock-up-of-twin-seater-version-jf-17-jpg.776035/

The front bit is circular ... and the back end is squar'ish

OK, so the thing going through the Bulkhead is square but the actual antenna is round.
Also the old iterations of KLJ-7A had side panels. Now gone.

 

[The Eagle]

OK, so the thing going through the Bulkhead is square but the actual antenna is round.
Also the old iterations of KLJ-7A had side panels. Now gone.View attachment 777629

The three phase array AESA is a different variant for forward looking KLJ-7A. The slanted style may be for a different nose.

 

[Aesterix]

An AVIC official says the airflow for cooling the radar comes from the aircraft’s environmental control system. This apparently obviates the need for drag-inducing ducting around the aircraft’s nose. (Keep it simple, stupid)

The radar operates in the X band and weighs 145kg. It can detect a fighter-sized target at 170km. It can track 15 targets simultaneously and engage four at the same time. It also has a surface search function. AVIC claims that it has a “strong anti-jamming capability.”

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/video-china-intent-on-aesa-radar-upgrades/130211.article

Good find. The article is from 2018, so things may have changed since.
Having AESA radar cooling air coming from aircraft’s environment control system makes sense and now the ram air cooling system under the vertical stabiliser also makes sense. Because that's where the compressed cold air will come for all the cooling needs.

 

[The Eagle]

Few excerpts from Bol News "Grand National Debate" with PAC Kamra.

1. Green Panels in Wing & Dual Seat Vertical Tail, are confirmed. Then, while covering Dual Seat variant, host asked the same question but merely pointing towards the Aircraft. Official responds: The green area is where fuel is and using sealant and cover, and needs pressurization hence, green done. While saying so, the official didn't particularly mention Vertical Tail or Wings only while the aircraft had green on fuselage & even the whole under area of cockpit. Also, the yellow paint areas are normally aluminum metallic.

2. Host said, for the first time Dual Seat Block-III will be shown. Interestingly, official explaining Block-B said that (620) 2P-80B is the last dual seater to be delivered to PAF. Later, clarifies that it is a dual seat B model and not Block-III. Block-III is single seat. (The argument is done since an official clarifies as compare to host been calling it dual seat block-III).

3. There was another B-Model which was handed over to PAF but returned for post production modification, as the official said. So, conclusively already inducted B model is sent back for further modifications A/C # 20-615.

3. Block-III & B Model, are now completely produced based upon 3D structure modeling instead of those paper blueprints.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

Few excerpts from Bol News "Grand National Debate" with PAC Kamra.

1. Green Panels in Wing & Dual Seat Vertical Tail, are confirmed. Then, while covering Dual Seat variant, host asked the same question but merely pointing towards the Aircraft. Official responds: The green area is where fuel is and using sealant and cover, and needs pressurization hence, green done. While saying so, the official didn't particularly mention Vertical Tail or Wings only while the aircraft had green on fuselage & even the whole under area of cockpit. Also, the yellow paint areas are normally aluminum metallic.

2. Host said, for the first time Dual Seat Block-III will be shown. Interestingly, official explaining Block-B said that (620) 2P-80B is the last dual seater to be delivered to PAF. Later, clarifies that it is a dual seat B model and not Block-III. Block-III is single seat. (The argument is done since an official clarifies as compare to host been calling it dual seat block-III).

3. There was another B-Model which was handed over to PAF but returned for post production modification, as the official said. So, conclusively already inducted B model is sent back for further modifications A/C # 20-615.

3. Block-III & B Model, are now completely produced based upon 3D structure modeling instead of those paper blueprints.

@Dazzler claims that the video was shot 2 months prior... If true... How long till we see the first production A3 in colors and flying....

 

[The Eagle]

@Dazzler claims that the video was shot 2 months prior... If true... How long till we see the first production A3 in colors and flying....

The official on assembly line said, particular assembly line takes 3 months to deliver it to final production. So by the same claim, almost of those compartments would be delivered to Final Assembly and by the same calculation, we might see 1 or 2 final products going to the Final Testing Station (FTS) near or by the end of this year. I don't see any other Aircraft in production except for 2 Dual seats (1 to be delivered completing last batch and the other one is back into factory for post production modification). Rest of production line is busy with Block-III with 2 A/Cs almost near completion and 6 or 8 into jigs.

 

[Aesterix]

Few excerpts from Bol News "Grand National Debate" with PAC Kamra.

1. Green Panels in Wing & Dual Seat Vertical Tail, are confirmed. Then, while covering Dual Seat variant, host asked the same question but merely pointing towards the Aircraft. Official responds: The green area is where fuel is and using sealant and cover, and needs pressurization hence, green done. While saying so, the official didn't particularly mention Vertical Tail or Wings only while the aircraft had green on fuselage & even the whole under area of cockpit. Also, the yellow paint areas are normally aluminum metallic.

So in that case we can attribute the green colour around cockpit as the area which needs sealants and pressurised.
Because cockpit is pressurised on Thunder.
No fuel there.

 

[khanasifm]

So in that case we can attribute the green colour around cockpit as the area which needs sealants and pressurised.
Because cockpit is pressurised on Thunder.
No fuel there.

well perhaps due to ifr probe as the early model jf-17 did not had that Area covered and now due to ifr probe
Need to ask which components are composite on jf-17 beside radar nose ?

 

[The Eagle]

So in that case we can attribute the green colour around cockpit as the area which needs sealants and pressurised.
Because cockpit is pressurised on Thunder.
No fuel there.

Read my post again. No mention of particular area in regards to green in final comments by official. They were talking about green areas and that's it. "Fuel storing/cell. We use sealant and green as the area is for pressurizing".

 

[GumNaam]

OK, so the thing going through the Bulkhead is square but the actual antenna is round.
Also the old iterations of KLJ-7A had side panels. Now gone.View attachment 777629

so which one is the Blk3 using? the forward looking one or the one looking both forward and sideways?

 

[Aesterix]

Read my post again. No mention of particular area in regards to green in final comments by official. They were talking about green areas and that's it. "Fuel storing/cell. We use sealant and green as the area is for pressurizing".

So any of the three reasons,
Fuel
Sealants
Pressurised
Can be green area?