Japanese MoD denies reports of 2015 first flight for ATD-X prototype

[Aepsilons]

... and ironical it may sound, it also was the usa which didn't recognize japanese as racially equal to them in the league of nations
Racial Equality Proposal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
btw, your romeo-juliet love story with usa brings tears to my eyes

Racial prejudice is a natural human psychology. There were many policies in the United States that one would consider racist, but those were usually implemented in the past and due to the sensitivities of the day. I could bring up some racist policies of Japan in the past as well, but that is unnecessary. The point is, nations, like people, undergo paradigm shifts in policy. Just like corporate organizations that experiencing an environmental or internal change.

welcome

 

[Europa]

JL-1 was our first generation SLBM, and it was only 3000-4000km max, which was not enough to deter against the US.

JL-1 experienced a number of failed tests in 1980s, and it was not deployed until the 1990s.

JL-2 is our Trident II equivalent, and it was deployed in 2013.

I think JL-2 is better than Bulava, but Russia still has Skiff and Sineva as the backup, so basically we are tied with Russia in term of SLBM, and ahead of both France and UK.

The US with 14 Ohio class subs with 24 Trident II missiles for each boat, so their naval deterrence is still ahead of China and Russia combined.

actually, i tried to refer to the first development of slbms based on the philosophy of intercontinental range, thats why i counted on the jl - 1 development period in the 1980s

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

... and ironical it may sound, it also was the usa which didn't recognize japanese as racially equal to them in the league of nations

Racial Equality Proposal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

btw, your romeo-juliet love story with usa brings tears to my eyes

I think Abe will rather have a Japanese Empire than having a "democratic" Japan.

 

[Aepsilons]

I think Abe will rather have a Japanese Empire than having a "democratic" Japan.

Fortunately, the reality on the ground speaks the contrary.

 

[xunzi]

On topic:

Japan has virtually all the necessary expertise to independently develop the 5th generation fighter.

With the F-2 they proved their capability in both airframe,radar and other general avionics. In fact the Japanese airframe technology was so advanced in the F-2 that the US wanted it!

Engines will be the hardest part but the Japanese do already have low thrust engines in service and upscaling them to a pair of medium-thrust engines required to power the fighter should be doable in the next 10-15 years.

That is not true. F-2 is a derivative copy of F-16. The US supply and provide at least 80% of the F-16 technology and give license for Japan to build F-2.

Let talk not of something that never happen and deal with the reality. High-bypass engine requires a lot of research, testing, and resources. A minimum of 2-3 decade is minimum to reach maturity. Japan simply never face a problem on their own. We see if they can do it without the US babysitting them this time. Let the result do the talking.

 

[gslv mk3]

Let talk not of something that never happen and deal with the reality. High-bypass engine requires a lot of research, testing, and resources. A minimum of 2-3 decade is minimum to reach maturity

Fighter jets use low bypass turbofans,not high bypass ones.

You know they already have a high bypass engines in service ( IHI F7)

 

[sword1947]

Guys , you all waste your time here. Only time can tell how this jet will be......

 

[UKBengali]

That is not true. F-2 is a derivative copy of F-16. The US supply and provide at least 80% of the F-16 technology and give license for Japan to build F-2.

Let talk not of something that never happen and deal with the reality. High-bypass engine requires a lot of research, testing, and resources. A minimum of 2-3 decade is minimum to reach maturity. Japan simply never face a problem on their own. We see if they can do it without the US babysitting them this time. Let the result do the talking.

Japan can build its own F-2 fighter now, minus the engine.

There was a near two way technology transfer between the US and Japan in the F-2 project. That means that both countries have full access to the technology of all parts of the aircraft, minus the US engine.

The most difficult part of an airframe is the wings and that has been designed and built by Mitsubishi. Japan successfully used "co-cured" technology in the wings, which is a technology that the US had never applied before.

AESA radar was of course a pure Japanese design and while it encountered some initial teething problems it is now a fully mature radar.

I agree that engines will be the hardest for the Japanese to get right but they already have the IHI F7 engine testing on the Kawasaki P1 maritime aircraft. This gives an idea of how mature their engine technology in that they would test a new engine with a new aircraft. Of course, this engine cannot be used on a fighter aircraft that requires much more thrust but it can be used as a base to design a new engine. Remember we are looking at an engine on the generation level of the Eurofighter/Rafale to allow the Japanese a fighter that could be considered 5th generation. Yes the fighter may be slightly underpowered but it will have cutting avionics and missiles that would make it a formidable opponent.

 

[gslv mk3]

Of course, this engine cannot be used on a fighter aircraft that requires much more thrust but it can be used as a base to design a new engine

It can't be used because it is a high bypass turbofan.Hence IHI XF 5.IHI Corporation XF5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[UKBengali]

It can't be used because it is a high bypass turbofan.Hence IHI XF 5.IHI Corporation XF5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah and that as well.

My point was that Japan has a base on which to manufacture the required engines for a fifth generation fighter. This engine must be really reliable if they are using it in the test phase of a new aircraft

 

[SOHEIL]

Mitsubishi F-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TaiShang]

btw, your romeo-juliet love story with usa brings tears to my eyes

Well said.

I understand why Okinawans do not like the ultranationlists in Tokyo.

 

[xunzi]

Japan can build its own F-2 fighter now, minus the engine.

There was a near two way technology transfer between the US and Japan in the F-2 project. That means that both countries have full access to the technology of all parts of the aircraft, minus the US engine.

The most difficult part of an airframe is the wings and that has been designed and built by Mitsubishi. Japan successfully used "co-cured" technology in the wings, which is a technology that the US had never applied before.

AESA radar was of course a pure Japanese design and while it encountered some initial teething problems it is now a fully mature radar.

I agree that engines will be the hardest for the Japanese to get right but they already have the IHI F7 engine testing on the Kawasaki P1 maritime aircraft. This gives an idea of how mature their engine technology in that they would test a new engine with a new aircraft. Of course, this engine cannot be used on a fighter aircraft that requires much more thrust but it can be used as a base to design a new engine. Remember we are looking at an engine on the generation level of the Eurofighter/Rafale to allow the Japanese a fighter that could be considered 5th generation. Yes the fighter may be slightly underpowered but it will have cutting avionics and missiles that would make it a formidable opponent.

Let not get carry ahead of ourselves here for a second because you like Japan, all right? Building F-2, a derivative copy of F-16 with full license and ToT, is very different than doing it yourself, especially in the realm of 5th gen fighter. Russia has a long history of aircraft experience and still having trouble with 5th gen, as we speak here.

The ToT between US and Japan is more one-sided. US only used selective Japanese technology while 70% of US technology is being present to Japan. For example, Japan produced about 30% of Boeing 787 which has the same complexity as a 5th gen fighter imho.

P1 is a patrol aircraft. Powering that plane doesn't need "state-of-the-art" engine. Let remember that. You can't use core engine from IHI F7 to make 5th gen engine because it is a high-bypass engine to begin with. In fact, IHI F7 core comes from the low-bypass IHI XF5. Though, the IHI XF5 doesn't have high-thrust to power a real 5th gen fighter. The ATD-X model is said to be powered by XF5 but we know that this is a "wood model" or "toy model" if you want to call it. Expanding the size and power of XF5 will increase the complexity of the engine. That is the rule. Anyhow, depending on how much the US will help them, it is remain to be seen. Like I said at least 2-3 decades is needed for a mature 5th engine. Japan only start their 5th gen engine program now and want to jump into the penhouse of a high building? No way!

Mitsubishi F-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I bet if the US gives us full access to the F-35, we would make a better F-35 on time and on budget right now.

 

[ice bomb]

Let not get carry ahead of ourselves here for a second because you like Japan, all right? Building F-2, a derivative copy of F-16 with full license and ToT, is very different than doing it yourself, especially in the realm of 5th gen fighter. Russia has a long history of aircraft experience and still having trouble with 5th gen, as we speak here.

The ToT between US and Japan is more one-sided. US only used selective Japanese technology while 70% of US technology is being present to Japan. For example, Japan produced about 30% of Boeing 787 which has the same complexity as a 5th gen fighter imho.

P1 is a patrol aircraft. Powering that plane doesn't need "state-of-the-art" engine. Let remember that. You can't use core engine from IHI F7 to make 5th gen engine because it is a high-bypass engine to begin with. In fact, IHI F7 core comes from the low-bypass IHI XF5. Though, the IHI XF5 doesn't have high-thrust to power a real 5th gen fighter. The ATD-X model is said to be powered by XF5 but we know that this is a "wood model" or "toy model" if you want to call it. Expanding the size and power of XF5 will increase the complexity of the engine. That is the rule. Anyhow, depending on how much the US will help them, it is remain to be seen. Like I said at least 2-3 decades is needed for a mature 5th engine. Japan only start their 5th gen engine program now and want to jump into the penhouse of a high building? No way!


I bet if the US gives us full access to the F-35, we would make a better F-35 on time and on budget right now.

It took you 30 years to copy Spey MK202. But you can make a f35 on time and on budget? Trolling must be an art for you.

 

[xunzi]

Fighter jets use low bypass turbofans,not high bypass ones.

You know they already have a high bypass engines in service ( IHI F7)

That was a thought mistake. Thanks friend for correcting! LOL

IHI F7 used some tech from GE cowl opening systems. Let remind everyone of that.

It took you 30 years to copy Spey MK202. But you can make a f35 on time and on budget? Trolling must be an art for you.

Comparing us 30 years ago is like comparing an ant to an elephant. 30 years ago, our GDP is $200 billion or so, today it is over $9 trillion. Let remember that, friend! LOL