Japan Defence Forum

[initial_d]

That m

If you close any major strait, even if you are our friend, the US will reopen it... with force if needed. The USN protects freedom of navigation and anyone threatening that will be dealt with. Iran learned this the hard way during the Tanker War, when it was laying mines in the Strait of Hormuz. Indonesia will not close the Malaca or Sunda Strait without provoking a US response.

I know that this may be hard to realize, especially as our nations are friendly, but you need to understand that the US will do what it needs to - to whoever it needs to, to keep major straits and waterways open to all traffic.

We, and I speak as a former member of the USN, take our responsibility to keeping waterways open to all traffic very, very seriously.

that might be true, but if the chinese really are going south, i thing country like united stated will join forces with us againts it, that will be our card too , the US not gonna let its allied (singapore, malaysia, phillipine, australia and new zealand) threaten....

 

[Aepsilons]

If you close any major strait, even if you are our friend, the US will reopen it... with force if needed. The USN protects freedom of navigation and anyone threatening that will be dealt with. Iran learned this the hard way during the Tanker War, when it was laying mines in the Strait of Hormuz. Indonesia will not close the Malaca or Sunda Strait without provoking a US response.

I know that this may be hard to realize, especially as our nations are friendly, but you need to understand that the US will do what it needs to - to whoever it needs to, to keep major straits and waterways open to all traffic.

We, and I speak as a former member of the USN, take our responsibility to keeping waterways open to all traffic very, very seriously.

Freedom of navigation is important, definitely, and I don't think our Chinese colleagues would try anything that would result in international or wider regional response. I don't think the possibility of an Indonesian-Chinese confrontation is high, as it stands currently. The Indonesians have full air-sea command of the Natuna Islands, and let's be pragmatic -- the Chinese occupy but minor and minimal number of islands in the SCS. The majority of these islands and shoals are actually occupied by the Vietnamese, Philippines and Malaysians.

The Chinese claim does not change this administrative reality. And as it stands, I doubt the Chines would engage in war -- else suffer the same consequence that has affected Russia's interference in the Crimea.

 

[initial_d]

They wouldn't be stupid enough to dare engage Indonesia as that would unite the already contentious ASEAN membership against a common foe. Secondarily, it would bring in international resolve. At this critical juncture -- they (Chinese) focusing on balancing their economic growth -- cannot afford a war. And one lesson they see -- in regards to the punishment Russia is experiencing right now through these international sanctions -- is that It cannot afford to go against the international order and expect no repercussions.

i hope what you said is true, but who knows what the china think, with their huge economy and strong millitary, they could escape doing it, thats why defense and millitary ties between indonesia (and south east asia nation) and japan should be nurture

 

[SvenSvensonov]

i hope what you said is true, but who knows what the china think, with their huge economy and strong millitary, they could escape doing it, thats why defense and millitary ties between indonesia (and south east asia nation) and japan should be nurture

And I don't disagree, I consider increased ties to be of paramount importance. Not only does it help maintain peace in the region, but it lessens the need for the US to stick around. I don't fully trust the Chinese either, nor do our politicians or military leaders (or those in the SCS or China's sphere of influence), they've done one thing and said another to many times before and we simply don't trust them. That's why you need to build you military up, to counteract any threat and promote peace through mutually assured destruction (that doesn't need to be nuclear deterrence, just enough firepower to ensure your enemy is hit equally hard). We are promoting military-to-military ties with China to lessen our risk, Indonesia needs to pursue its own path and if that is deterrence, so be it. We wont stand in your way if you don't stand in ours.

@Armstrong - mind yourself. Japan already knows the consequences, everyone does, and If they become belligerent and start screwing with Freedom of Navigation, something they too hold as very important to their interests especially as an island nation that is dependent on sea travel and trade, we will respond. Japan already knows this.

During the Cold War we even demonstrated to the Soviets that Freedom of Navigation is something we will uphold through any means necessary. If we were willing to mess with them, you can be sure Japan will face the same treatment.

Back In The Cold War The US Wasn't Above A Little Provocation Itself - read the article, it will give you a clear indication of how serious the US takes its responsibilities.

What horrible fate are you wishing upon the poor people of Japan?

 

[initial_d]

Does the US have a mutual defense pact with any of the mentioned nations? If not, don't count on our military support. The Philippine learned this, so too did Ukraine. If we, or our partners tied to by a mutual defense pact, are not threatened, we may not jump into action. Don't over-estimate your importance to our nation. We might like you, but not enough to risk a full-scale conflict with China. Unless Japan or South Korea are attacked, or we are, we are unlikely to directly engage Chinese military assets.

Keep building your own military so you don't have to find out whether or not we will come to your rescue. Your own strength is the only hedge you can count on in a time of crisis and I, and the US military, fully support Indonesia and all other ASEAN nations building up their military assets... so long as they don't turn them on each other.[/QUOTE the U.S has military treaty with australia, singapore and new zealand. Australia had military treaty with malaysia, brunei, singapore and the brits, so in going south, the chinese is not gonna fight with south asian nation alone, but also with united state and the brits

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong - mind yourself. Japan already knows the consequences, everyone does, and If they become belligerence and start screwing with Freedom of Navigation, something they too hold as very important to their interests especially as an island nation that is dependent on sea travel and trade, we will response. Japan already knows this.

What horrible fate are you wishing upon the poor people of Japan?

@Nihonjin1051 I guess that our Brother here would fight us !

*Armstrong takes one despondent look at the computer screen and looks away as a lone tear skirts its way down his cheek and in his heart of hearts he asks himself where did it all go wrong. All the while sad funeral music plays in the background as Armstrong shuts down the laptop and stares into nothingness as he wonders what happened to the brotherhood between the three musketeers of PDF*

@SvenSvensonov - Mate did I say something to offend you ? I apologize if I did for it was not my intention. I just got carried away while cracking jokes - Apologies !

 

[Aepsilons]

i hope what you said is true, but who knows what the china think, with their huge economy and strong millitary, they could escape doing it, thats why defense and millitary ties between indonesia (and south east asia nation) and japan should be nurture

What is vital, my friend, is the maintenance of the Freedom of Navigation throughout the vital choke point of the Malaccas Strait. Through this strait --- vital goods and resources traverse -- and any power that will try to impose a blockade in this will affect the global economy, and thus global stability. Any conflict in this region will result in an immediate international response.

As it stands, I see growing relationship between Japan and Indonesia (both large archipelagos, both democracies, both imbedded and linked through common goals) as a way to ensure stability. Japan, as a strategic partner of both the United States and Australia -- may serve as the conduit through which Indonesian rapport can develop between the United States and Australia. Japan - Philippines - Indonesia - Australia all are vital players in the stability of the greater Western Pacific and Oceania. The more integrated we are -- the more we develop mechanisms in defense and political coordination -- the more stable our neighborhood is. The less chance of having unnecessary military exigency.

 

[Aepsilons]

And I don't disagree, I consider increased ties to be of paramount importance. Not only does it help maintain peace in the region, but it lessens the need for the US to stick around. I don't fully trust the Chinese either, nor do our politicians or military leaders (or those in the SCS or China's sphere of influence), they done one thing as said another to many times before and we simply don't trust them. That's why you need to build you military up, to counteract any threat and promote peace through mutually assured destruction (that doesn't need to be nuclear deterrence, just enough firepower to ensure your enemy is hit equally hard). We are promoting military-to-military ties with China to lessen our risk, Indonesia needs to pursue its own path and if that is deterrence, so be it. We wont stand in your way if you don't stand in ours.

@Armstrong - mind yourself. Japan already knows the consequences, everyone does, and If they become belligerent and start screwing with Freedom of Navigation, something they too hold as very important to their interests especially as an island nation that is dependent on sea travel and trade, we will respond. Japan already knows this.

During the Cold War we even demonstrated to the Soviets that Freedom of Navigation is something we will uphold through any means necessary. If we were willing to mess with them, you can be sure Japan will face the same treatment.

Back In The Cold War The US Wasn't Above A Little Provocation Itself - read the article, it will give you a clear indication of how serious the US takes its responsibilities.

View attachment 189891

What horrible fate are you wishing upon the poor people of Japan?

You can trust that Japan and the JMSDF ever protects Freedom of Navigation and we do not tolerate any forces who would threaten the free flow of goods throughout strategic points. As for our buddy @Armstrong --- he probably had too much spicy chicken tikka masala today. Come, let's all drink some tea.

@Nihonjin1051 I guess that our Brother here would fight us !

*Armstrong takes one despondent look at the computer screen and looks away as a lone tear skirts its way down his cheek and in his heart of hearts he asks himself where did it all go wrong. All the while sad funeral music plays in the background as Armstrong shuts down the laptop and stares into nothingness as he wonders what happened to the brotherhood between the three musketeers of PDF*

@SvenSvensonov - Mate did I say something to offend you ? I apologize if I did for it was not my intention. I just got carried away while cracking jokes - Apologies !

LOL! Hahahaha, you're so sensitive bhai!

hahaha lighten up, Svenny boy was just doing his Svergie Viking STRONK impression ! Hahaha.

 

[Nike]

I thought you guys were more worried about Australia? (Seems a bit of a misplaced worry to me. BTW Indonesia is #1 on theirs...and Japan is way down the list..even below Israel lol)

haha we had contingency plans against them

no biggie, but still they are considered threat for Indonesia in our white defense paper book although our immediate yet unpredictable neighbor Malaysia still seat at the top of number one external threat. China is not a much problems right now (but still they posses the capability to made much problems for us in near future and we are very wary about them), even bellow our Australian friends. We much prefer to conduct strategic relationship with Singapore and South Korean as they were more neutral in nature to us, although lately Australia trying to woo us.

For United States, not much i can said only them who can subdue and conquering Indonesian archipelago as a whole with their conventional weapons. But i hope Indonesia and US of A can achieve much higher and deeper level of bilateral relationship.

 

[Armstrong]

You can trust that Japan and the JMSDF ever protects Freedom of Navigation and we do not tolerate any forces who would threaten the free flow of goods throughout strategic points. As for our buddy @Armstrong --- he probably had too much spicy chicken tikka masala today. Come, let's all drink some tea.

Not Tikka masala per se.....more like 4 chicken burgers and 6 nuggets !

Besides I don't even know what this 'Freedom of Navigation' thing is because I was under the impression that barring something called international waters each nation has its own maritime borders where they can either allow or refuse others to pass through - Suez Canal, Panama Canal etc. came to mind. So in essence I was just trolling You and @SvenSvensonov !

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Nihonjin1051 I guess that our Brother here would fight us !

*Armstrong takes one despondent look at the computer screen and looks away as a lone tear skirts its way down his cheek and in his heart of hearts he asks himself where did it all go wrong. All the while sad funeral music plays in the background as Armstrong shuts down the laptop and stares into nothingness as he wonders what happened to the brotherhood between the three musketeers of PDF*

@SvenSvensonov - Mate did I say something to offend you ? I apologize if I did for it was not my intention. I just got carried away while cracking jokes - Apologies !

Damn bro you are more sensitive than my girl......

 

[Aepsilons]

haha we had contingency plans against them

no biggie, but still they are considered threat for Indonesia in our white defense paper book although our immediate yet unpredictable neighbor Malaysia still seat at the top of number one external threat. China is not a much problems right now (but still they posses the capability to made much problems for us in near future and we are very wary about them), even bellow our Australian friends. We much prefer to conduct strategic relationship with Singapore and South Korean as they were more neutral in nature to us, although lately Australia trying to woo us.

For United States, not much i can said only them who can subdue and conquering Indonesian archipelago as a whole with their conventional weapons. But i hope Indonesia and US of A can achieve much higher and deeper level of bilateral relationship.

It is not an 'IF', but more of a 'WHEN'. Indonesia and the United States will become active , integrated players in this century. Indonesia, as the largest Muslim-dominant democracy (and a thriving representative democracy at that), a large industrial base (and growing), a very large population (already at 256 million --- and growing) will become a major regional power in the Indo-Pacific region. Indonesia , by her nature and her history , is a responsible power , irrespective of the growing pains she had to endure immediately post-independence.

Again, I reiterate, it is not a question of 'IF', but 'WHEN' -- in regards to cooperation in all fields with the United States. The mere fact that Japan and Indonesia have already signed a defense cooperation agreement , is testament to this evolving political praxis.

 

[Armstrong]

Damn bro you are more sensitive than my girl......

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Not Tikka masala per se.....more like 4 chicken burgers and 6 nuggets !

Besides I don't even know what this 'Freedom of Navigation' thing is because I was under the impression that barring something called international waters each nation has its own maritime borders where they can either allow or refuse others to pass through - Suez Canal, Panama Canal etc. came to mind. So in essence I was just trolling You and @SvenSvensonov !

The Panama Canal and Suez Canal are open to traffic, even during war time, to all nations, even if the warring parties sit on either side of either canal. As for territorial waters, those aren't included in Freedom of Navigation, that concept refers to international waters, straits and choke-points only. No one can come into our territorial waters without a friendly frisking by our coast guard.

Here's some reference material on the subject:

Handbook of International Law - Anthony Aust - Google Books

hahaha lighten up, Svenny boy was just doing his Svergie Viking STRONK impression ! Hahaha.

View attachment 189893

I'm more like this:

 

[Aepsilons]

Damn bro you are more sensitive than my girl......

Its okay, that's why @Armstrong has a special place in our hearts. He's our @Armstrong .

So in essence I was just trolling You and @SvenSvensonov !

Ha Ha Ha, so when we gonna have our wrestling match? Its gonna be a Swedish, Japanese, Pakistani Summo match.

Its on like Donkey Kong ! hahahaha (o gawd, did i really say that?)