Jamshed Kiyani's "Revelations".

[Interceptor]

This Kashmiri Klan is very dangerous , Hamid Mir, Abbasi, Kiyani, Mian N ji, Mir Shakeel (Geo owner). Shahid Masood never know another Kashmiri.

This thought is racist really. What race does musharraf come from.

 

[blain2]

What if someone said that he is an alien from mars and landed on Pakistan and later became a corps commander. Hmmm. Yeah I believe that.

Lots of people critisize Musharraf why is he any different? explain.

It is the charactar of democracy, look at the Q-league that is now openly attacking Musharraf that he was behind the Anti-Judicioury move that he sent our troops to tribal areas and supported US war on our soil. It is clear from where his voice is coming from and it is from the many angry people who were sanctioned under Musharraf rule.

Did you even read the report on what Musharraf did with the Pakistani money when he went abroad, he spent millions of dolars on golf trips and othe recreational things. It was only after the coalition Government came that the wider public knew about this, I read yesterday that a Pakistani jouranlist who saw a raptor fly over Pakistan from a Pakistani Airbase was just released things are changing and they will bite Musharraf.

Lots of people criticize Musharraf and they should by all means. What's problematic is that this gentleman Jamshed Kiyani, while serving and after retiring and still working for Musharraf did not have the courage to raise the same points that he raises now. This is not something that members on the this forum are raising. Look at the editorial of Dawn and the same kind of questions are being raised by others about the intentions and timing of such critique by this individual of the President.

Please see my post above to get the drift as to why its unbecoming of a former Corps Commander and also a demonstration of lacking guts when the time was right to speak out. Back then this Jamshed Kiyani did not speak out (when his pension, job, retirement were on the line) and he does so now (when none of the same are on the line) while showing a marked bias in favor of NS...hmm something ain't right here.

I posted this earlier too, but here is the point:


Lack of moral courage

Sir: Through your esteemed paper, may I ask Nawaz Sharif as to why he did not take action against the COAS just after the Kargil incident? May I also ask the retired army officers who are now bickering against the president as to why they didn’t resign or speak against him when he was, if at all, doing it? It shows lack of moral courage, which was taught to me and my course-mates in 11 JSPCTS and 14 PMA.
COL (RETD) SYED FAKHAR HUSSAIN SHAH
Lahore

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...5-6-2008_pg3_6

 

[mujahideen]

This Kashmiri Klan is very dangerous , Hamid Mir, Abbasi, Kiyani, Mian N ji, Mir Shakeel (Geo owner). Shahid Masood never know another Kashmiri.

This is just a sad statment. It started with comments like these and ended in the creation of Bangladesh.

 

[muse]

So sad that thre are amongst us those who now offer themselves as paragonsof virtue - Did Lt. Gen. Kiyani know of these "facts" in "real time" -- if he did how is it now that he see what is right and good, now that he can no longer profit from his silence and soldierly duty entrusted to him by the nation??

Before our eyes, we see the interests of those behind the Sharif brothers, newspaper editors and journalists and now turn coats who no longer value the uniform -- perhaps this as it should be, our moorings lost, we crash on rocks the waves decide to wreck us on -- on the other hand - -perhaps this is not as it should be, perhaps it's time to call it they way we see it and perhaps it's time to insist that Pakistan prevail over the interest of these mean spirited and that Pakistan be saved from the talons of those determined to shred it bits and pieces with idiots ideologies, idiot notions of identity that do not complement but seek to usurp the identity of Pakistanis as Pakistani first, and foremost!

 

[EagleEyes]

This thought is racist really. What race does musharraf come from.

Indeed. These comments are uncalled for. We all are Pakistanis. It is OUR problem.

 

[HAIDER]

This is just a sad statment. It started with comments like these and ended in the creation of Bangladesh.

I am sorry, but our country is still living in Baradari system or regional caste system. Look at first reaction from Zaradari after BB assassination.
But again sorry to say, we are fully supporting the Kashmir cause from man to material. But what Kashmiries are doing ?.

 

[vish]

I am sorry, but our country is still living in Baradari system or regional caste system. Look at first reaction from Zaradari after BB assassination.

May be to a certain extent that is true. The only way to uproot this regionalism is to ignore it. Making such statements only serves to increase regionalism.

 

[fatman17]

Please don't comment where you don't know what you are saying or just refrain from making ill-informed comments here. When someone at a rank as senior as a Lt Gen has a difference in principle, he can resign and due to the service already rendered, 99% of the time the resignation is accepted with pension. So the issue of speaking while in service does not apply here. There are other honorable ways to show your dissenting views, one being you quit with izzat. Jamshed Kiyani sahib for some reason did not think about this option.

In Pakistan, the tradition of stepping aside when there are differences is very pronounced. Gen Jehangir Karamat (CoAS) stepped aside when he disagreed with the policies of the then PM. In the past, others had disagreed with the then C-in-C Pakistan Army Gen Auyb Khan and stepped aside. This included Lt Gen Habibullah who could not get along with Gen Musa. Later on during the times of Gen Yahya Khan (President and C-in-C), Lt Gen Yaqub Khan did the same.

So don't kid me with the above clarifications. Officers of the rank of Brigadiers have retired/resigned pre-maturely in the Pakistan Army due to differences with the leadership of the time. A Lt Gen is certainly within his right to quit if he disagrees with what's going on.

Dear blain2 well put - what really irritates me is that these ex-generals have suddenly found their conscience (sense of morality) after all these years of service in the armed forces. i mean suddenly their 35-40 years of service was just a bloody joke.
if you dont agree - quit with your izzat and zameer intact. not just senior officers but there are umpteenth examples of junior officers doing the same if they feel that they disagree with what the armed forces are doing.

 

[HAIDER]

Military involvement is politics is always questionable and need to be condemn. But just for the sake of personal vendetta, criticizing an operation and critic himself was part of operation. I never see or heard somthing like that in any military.
Just for the sake of grim smile, always watch out from people who have no eyebrows....Kyani and Zia proved that....

 

[Spring Onion]

Military involvement is politics is always questionable and need to be condemn. But just for the sake of personal vendetta, criticizing an operation and critic himself was part of operation. I never see or heard somthing like that in any military.


Just for the sake of grim smile, always watch out from people who have no eyebrows....Kyani and Zia proved that....

for the eyebrows part.



Let me share views of Mr Jafri on the Jamshid episod

-------------------------


An Open Letter to the COAS
by Riaz Jafri


Dear General Ashfaq Pervez Kiani.

Never before has an army chief been confronted with such a challenging political situation in the country coupled with not so savoury a civil and military relationship than what you have been ever since you took over the command of the Pakistan army. Never before has the Pak army been subjected to such a test, trial and tribulation from within as it is facing today. I have to admit with a head hung in shame that never before had the image of the army been that low in the eyes of its own very public than today, who were never tired of singing its praise and showering everything they had upon their Dhol Sipahiyas.
However, it is indeed gratifying to see that you were and are cognizant of this situation and of the factors causing this damage to the army and lowering its prestige amongst the people and have taken certain measures to redeem the situation and restore the honour of the soldier. Sir, you have done quite a bit but a lot more needs to be done.
Unfortunately, of late certain old soldiers instead of fading away gracefully have taken upon themselves the self criticism and the criticism of their seniors under whom they have had the ‘honour’ to serve most loyally, faithfully and obediently by playing unwittingly into the hands of the clever media men.


In their naivety they have gone too far, too far to the extent of invoking the most scathing and stinging ridicule of one of the first beneficiaries of the removal of the ‘Graduation Clause’ – the haughty Salman Taseer, known for making a quick buck and caring too hoots about any one else. Drunk with the gubernatorial powers the other day he made the most un-gubernatorial remark about the retired generals whom he didn’t consider worth the bloody toe of his shoe (jooti ki noke ke brabar bhi naheen samajhta)!. Well done, Mr. President for appointing such a Governor with such shoes! And, Sir, if you didn’t know this facet of Aatish Taseer’s father and the husband of the Indian journalist Talveen Singh then you need to read a lot more about the persons and the personalities. And, I sincerely hope that the Governor does care a wee bit more about you than the retired generals, for, whether you like it or not you are one of them now?!
Dear General Kiani, I am sure we all know that there is a fine and subtle difference between the critique and the criticism. Whereas the former is said to be healthy and constructive the latter is known to be destructive. And, then there are occasions, forums and places to indulge in each one of them. The underlying spirit being to draw lessons to learn from the mistakes of yours and that of your enemy and not to repeat them in future. However, what of late some of our ‘stalwarts’ are broadcasting to the world on the electronic and print media is an outright disparaging insult for the army. Imagine what impact it could have on the young officers viewing such tv programmes in their quarters or messes? What type of discussions will it all not generate among them and with what effects? What respect, faith and loyalty they would have for their senior officers? What would the men – the finest men that an army could have – think of their leaders after their simple and honest minds are polluted by such hostile propaganda and that too from their own ‘leaders’ against their own army? Would it not affect the greatest and the ultimate bond between the led and the leader? Who said that, “destroy the faith of the men in their commander and you would turn fine soldiers into an unruly mob”? This is something that the enemy psy-warfare gurus and pundits try their best to achieve through various ingenious and subtle psy-war techniques. But here we are offering them on a platter what they could otherwise never achieve.

Similarly, we hear and view quite a few other retired senior officers coming out rather immaturishly with certain intimate details of their experiences – some even operational in nature - just to impress the general viewers with their insight knowledge of the incidence. It is a common phenomenon that we all do come across some very sensitive information during the course of our service but that doesn’t mean that such information becomes our personal property. The case in point is that of General Jamshed Gulzar Kiani (Retd), who should have exercised more caution in describing the details of Kargil, but I suppose the general was carried away more by his personal anti-Musharraf vendetta than to remember that the discretion was the better part of the valour. Surprisingly some of the ‘professional” retired military commentators seem to be eveready with the mike just waiting for call of some ordinary anchorman who doesn’t seem to have anything better to do. This is becoming rather too much and not only eroding the image of the armed forces but also widening the chasm between the civil and military. Nothing could be more dangerous for a country whose civil populace is not at the back of its armed forces. We have had the most ignoble and worst experience of our national history it in the erstwhile East Pakistan . I would not be doing justice if I do not exclude Generals Tallat Masood, Asad Durrani and a few others like them, who not only conduct themselves with grace and dignity but also maintain the level of the discussion commensurate with their high level of intellect and thought.
Keeping in line with your efforts of rehabilitating the army’s image, something urgent has to be done in this regard as well. Such a practice has to be stopped forthwith before the cancer spreads beyond control. Sir, what do the Army Rules, Regulations and the Official Secret Act say about it? I believe there is an official moratorium of an initial thirty years on all such war office correspondence and making of a secret information public which otherwise could not be. Could there, therefore, be an official reminder from you, in your capacity as the Chief of the Army Staff, sent to all ex service personnel to refrain from divulging any information about the military operations or making any derogatory remarks about the army? And if need be a disciplinary action initiated against the defaulter resulting in the forfeiture of his pension and other benefits accruing to him on retirement from the service, as warranted under the rules.
I thank you for your time.

Sincerely

 

[batmannow]

BASSICLY, it is a move designed , to direct PAKISTAN ARMY to with draw its support, to president musharaf. and its is a part of bigger consparisy plot jointly produced by, NAWAZ SHARIF+ geo mangment.... i guss , its a good way to make money as the situation of economy is getting worse.... and common peoples of pakistan arent listening geo news, and not intersted in lawyers movment.

i think, its a media manouver to keep pakistanis... intersted in politics, and wanted pakistanis to take active part in any movement against.... president musharf. this move was inputed by... geo and its mangment to make a way in the crrent army top ranks to do not support president musharaf in case of a march from lawyers+pml(n) to army house in islamabad.

whatever , gen. gulzar had said about army affairs, durring his time of service.... were clearly... showing that nawazsharif.... is the most inocent PM pakistan ever had... also his interveiw is signal to USA to put stress on army chief to get rid of PERWAIZ MUSHARAF.


the thing i dont understood yet... is why president musharaf, is sinking his own ship..... what is the need of this all crap... i mean.. NRO.. DEMOCRACY... FREE MEDIA.....STAMENTS and counter statments.... what will pakistan and common pakistanis will get from that!!!

IT COULD BE very simple and i have just 2 words for .... PRESIDENT MUSHARAF... plz sir..... shut up... or putup???

 

[Naseer Khan]

I watched with interest the meeting of Pervez Musharraf with members of the press today i.e. 7th June 2008 telecast on GeoTV and ARY One world TV which was also shown in the UK . Pervez Musharraf deserves appreciation for keeping his cool on the question of Jamshed Gulzar. He did not flare up or display reciprocal shallowness as did Jamshed Gulzar who was very cheap and clearly showed that he wanted to gain cheap popularity. Much has been said in the open letter to the COAS and very rightly so.It is worth reading.My aprc to the writer,please. The retired officers are our asset but with due appology to those senior citizens,please behave responsibly.Do not become the tools of 3rd rate politicians. I am totally against the Army taking over the government or imposing martial law.It is better that they should remain away from the ***** of politics. But being retired army officers you have no right to malign this sacred institution.And do not forget the praise worthy politics played by politicians during 1988-1999.Just ask yourselves, is it worth discussing??Was Nawaz Sharif very mature as PM to arrest a senior officer of the rank of SE in Faisalabad?"is ko hathkari laga do" and then that poor officer was shown on the PTV duly handcuffed . Nawaz Sharif thought himself of an Egyptian Pharoa(Fir-aoun).As PM he ordered his gundaas to attack the Supreme court.And now he is trying to become the contractor (Thekay-daar) for the chief justice !! what a sick joke !! He sacked the Army Cheif,Naval Chief,Cheif Justice Sajjad Ali Shah and the way he was sacking Musharraf is totally amazing. God! help Pakistan.

 

[EagleEyes]

Nawaz acts and policies need to be exposed to the public. The more they know about him the better. Those who still support are just delusional with no mindset.

 

[opinion786]

I also saw Musharraf's interview to press today. He was excellent and his usual confident!

I really pity this nation, who fails to honour such an intelligent, visionary, knowledgeable, and honest leader! He keeps cool when criticized and amidst allegations. He never falls low to get personal, not even against Nawaz. Whereas, Nawaz never lets a moment go by, to insult and use abusive words against him.

Sometimes, I realise that we as a nation deserve these corrupt crooks Zardari and Nawaz!

 

[EagleEyes]

Interesting piece.

Politicians focusing on Musharraf to divert attention from judges