Jamaran-2

[Hack-Hook]

our own anti ship missiles can hit targets with size of a boat, Now how much is the chance of missing those so called stealth frigates?

with today technology very much

our own anti ship missiles can hit targets with size of a boat, Now how much is the chance of missing those so called stealth frigates?

with today technology very much

 

[Surenas]

 

[mohsen]

with today technology very much



with today technology very much

disappear technology maybe!!!

 

[Hack-Hook]

disappear technology maybe!!!

no but it matter a lot if you detect enemy 100km away or just 30km away

 

[BeyondHeretic]

So who would it be used against ? Russia or Azerbaijan?

 

[SOHEIL]

So who would it be used against ? Russia or Azerbaijan?

........

 

[fatman17]

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran will launch its second Mowdge class destroyer, dubbed as 'Jamaran 2', on Sunday, the Iranian Defense Ministry announced.





In a statement on Saturday, the ministry said that the advanced home-made destroyer will be launched in the Caspian Sea in an official ceremony to be attended by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Major General Hassan Firouzabadi, and Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi.

The statement said the destroyer which has been designed and developed by Iranian experts uses the state-of-the-art navigation systems and domestically-made sophisticated defensive equipments.

The destroyer which is the symbol of power and capability of the Iranian naval industry will join the Navy's subsurface fleet in the first half of the next Iranian year (March 21 - September 22) after undergoing final tests, the statement noted.

Earlier this week, the Iranian defense minister had said that the advanced Jamaran 2 destroyer, which has been designed and developed by Iranian experts at the defense ministry's naval industries organization, will be launched in the Caspian Sea in the near future.

He added that the defense ministry is also designing and manufacturing different types of satellites, satellite carriers, missiles, aircraft, choppers, tanks, personnel carriers, munitions, electronic systems, optical devices and communication devices.

Iran's first home-made destroyer, Jamaran, was launched in late February 2010. The Mowdge Class vessel has a displacement of around 14,000 tons and is equipped with modern radars and electronic warfare capabilities and is armed with a variety of anti-ship, surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles.

14,000 tons? - come on more like 1,400 tons - a corvette at best.

 

[Penguin]

our design and classifications are based on our interests not anyone else.for instance have a look at the endurance of the ships you mentioned:21 days with logistic support, 10,15 days autonomous.
you compare these with our Moudge class ? jamaran's last mission was 68 days (which obviously wasn't it's maximum), I don't know about it's autonomous but sahand which is 5th Moudge ship has 150 days autonomous endurance.

I'm not sure you understand endurance figures. It refers to days you can remain at sea unsupported (with just what you carry), not to mission length (which may well involve at sea replenishment by helicopter and/or support ships)...

Milgem
Range: 3,500 nautical miles (6,480 km) @ 15 knots
Endurance: 21 days with logistic support
10 days autonomous

Project 20380
Displacement: 1,800-2,200 tons
Speed: 27 knots
Range: 3,800 nm at 14 knots
Endurance: 15 days

Minerva
Type: corvette
Displacement: 1285 tonnes
Speed: 25 knots
Range: 3,500 nm at 18 knots

Inhauma
Type: corvette
Displacement: 1,670 tons standard , 1,970 tons full load
Speed: 27 knots
Range: 4,000 nm at 15 knots

Espora
Type: Multi-purpose light frigate
Displacement: 1,560 tons (1,790 tons full load)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 4,000 nautical miles (7,410 km) at 18 knots (33 km/h)

Type 053H3
Displacement: 2,250 tons standard, 2,393 tons full load
Propulsion: CODAD, 2 shaft, 2 x 18E390VA diesel @ 14,000 hp (17.6 kW) & 2x MTU diesel @ 8,840 hp (6.5 kW)
Speed: 28 knots
Range: 5,000 miles at 15 to 16 knots (30 km/h)

Type 056
Type: Corvette
Displacement: 1,300 tonnes (Standard Load), 1,440 tons (Full Load)
Propulsion: 2 diesel
Speed: 28 kn
Range: 2000 nmi (3704 km) at 18 knots

These are all fairly normal for ships this size

Now, consider:

Alvand class (ex-SAAM class, a Vosper Thorneycroft design)
Propulsion: 2 Paxman Ventura cruising diesels 3,800 bhp, and 2 Rolls Royce Olympus TM-3A boost gas turbines 46,000 shp (34,000 kW) on 2 shafts
Speed: 17 knots (31 km/h) on diesels, 39 knots (72 km/h) on gas turbines
Range: 5,000 nmi (9,000 km) at 15 knots (28 km/h)

Question: does Iran have that capability to BUILD and MAINTAIN marine GTu's?

Moudge/Jamaran propulsion does not suggest BUILD cpability as the plant is: 2 engine, 2 x 10,000 hp, 4 diesel generators, 4 x 550 kw

Consider Jamaran 2 will be less fast than the original Alvand (since: less than half the max shp of Alvand's CODAG plant). It will also be less fuel efficient than Alvand on diesels alone (more than double the shp of Alvands Paxman diesels). Thus, for given bunkerage (= little design change), it may be expected that (unrefueled) range figures on cruising speed are less than those for original Alvand and more in line with what is common for corvette. Also, I strongly suspect those diesels are of Chinese origin (Shaanxi Diesel) i.e. comparable to the diesels in type 054 (licenced Pielstick engines) and in the Type 056 corvette.

Type 056 Type 056 Jiangdao Class Corvette China Chinese Navy PLAN Guided Missile Light Frigate Bengbu CSSC China State Shipbuilding Corporation datasheet pictures photos video specifications
Type 054A Type 054A frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ihealugo]

i think the jamaran was with the 24th naval fleet of iran with full support of the fleet. The important thing is that we are building these by our own designs ... it will lead us to a good future ... > the next ship have also some stealth techs and higher tonage ( i think it was 3000 tons ) . and this new ship is designed to protect iran's share of the caspian sea at north > so it will be supported all the times .... so the jamaran 1 and 2 don't need high tonage to increase it's endurance ... the only thing that it need is to carry enough weapons for the incoming danger from north of iran ( that won't be huge ....)

 

[Penguin]

Consider also the capability to maintain RR Olympus gtu's....
There aren't many places to get spares:
Rolls-Royce Olympus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even a country such as China has moved into the marine GTu's only in recent years....

The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World: Their Ships ... - Eric Wertheim - Google Boeken

 

[mohsen]

I'm not sure you understand endurance figures. It refers to days you can remain at sea unsupported (with just what you carry), not to mission length (which may well involve at sea replenishment by helicopter and/or support ships)...

Milgem
Range: 3,500 nautical miles (6,480 km) @ 15 knots
Endurance: 21 days with logistic support
10 days autonomous

Project 20380
Displacement: 1,800-2,200 tons
Speed: 27 knots
Range: 3,800 nm at 14 knots
Endurance: 15 days

Minerva
Type: corvette
Displacement: 1285 tonnes
Speed: 25 knots
Range: 3,500 nm at 18 knots

Inhauma
Type: corvette
Displacement: 1,670 tons standard , 1,970 tons full load
Speed: 27 knots
Range: 4,000 nm at 15 knots

Espora
Type: Multi-purpose light frigate
Displacement: 1,560 tons (1,790 tons full load)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 4,000 nautical miles (7,410 km) at 18 knots (33 km/h)

Type 053H3
Displacement: 2,250 tons standard, 2,393 tons full load
Propulsion: CODAD, 2 shaft, 2 x 18E390VA diesel @ 14,000 hp (17.6 kW) & 2x MTU diesel @ 8,840 hp (6.5 kW)
Speed: 28 knots
Range: 5,000 miles at 15 to 16 knots (30 km/h)

Type 056
Type: Corvette
Displacement: 1,300 tonnes (Standard Load), 1,440 tons (Full Load)
Propulsion: 2 diesel
Speed: 28 kn
Range: 2000 nmi (3704 km) at 18 knots

These are all fairly normal for ships this size

Now, consider:

Alvand class (ex-SAAM class, a Vosper Thorneycroft design)
Propulsion: 2 Paxman Ventura cruising diesels 3,800 bhp, and 2 Rolls Royce Olympus TM-3A boost gas turbines 46,000 shp (34,000 kW) on 2 shafts
Speed: 17 knots (31 km/h) on diesels, 39 knots (72 km/h) on gas turbines
Range: 5,000 nmi (9,000 km) at 15 knots (28 km/h)

Question: does Iran have that capability to BUILD and MAINTAIN marine GTu's?

Moudge/Jamaran propulsion does not suggest BUILD cpability as the plant is: 2 engine, 2 x 10,000 hp, 4 diesel generators, 4 x 550 kw

Consider Jamaran 2 will be less fast than the original Alvand (since: less than half the max shp of Alvand's CODAG plant). It will also be less fuel efficient than Alvand on diesels alone (more than double the shp of Alvands Paxman diesels). Thus, for given bunkerage (= little design change), it may be expected that (unrefueled) range figures on cruising speed are less than those for original Alvand and more in line with what is common for corvette. Also, I strongly suspect those diesels are of Chinese origin (Shaanxi Diesel) i.e. comparable to the diesels in type 054 (licenced Pielstick engines) and in the Type 056 corvette.

Type 056 Type 056 Jiangdao Class Corvette China Chinese Navy PLAN Guided Missile Light Frigate Bengbu CSSC China State Shipbuilding Corporation datasheet pictures photos video specifications
Type 054A Type 054A frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

21 days with logistic support doesn't men mean "sea replenishment by helicopter and/or support ships"?

 

[Penguin]

i think the jamaran was with the 24th naval fleet of iran with full support of the fleet. The important thing is that we are building these by our own designs ... it will lead us to a good future ... > the next ship have also some stealth techs and higher tonage ( i think it was 3000 tons ) . and this new ship is designed to protect iran's share of the caspian sea at north > so it will be supported all the times .... so the jamaran 1 and 2 don't need high tonage to increase it's endurance ... the only thing that it need is to carry enough weapons for the incoming danger from north of iran ( that won't be huge ....)

From an operational perspective, you may well be right. Still, tonnage tends to be driven more by what systems need to be carried than by 'bunkerage'. Also, while it IS an achievement to build such a ship domestically, under severely restricted conditions, the design itself is dated: recall Iran originally ordered the Vosper MkV ships that later became SA'AM class and then Alvand class in 1966. Meanwhile, I'm sure much has changed in the Moudge/Jamaran, especially where propulsion-, weapon- and sensor-systems are concerned. So, at least some capabilities are likely to have improved relative to Alvand class.

 

[Penguin]

21 days with logistic support doesn't men mean "sea replenishment by helicopter and/or support ships"?

No. And I don't know what the source of that quote have in mind when writing that. For example, if constantly running high speed, fuel is finished soon, but when patrolling it may last much longer. In general, if you can replenish at sea, you're endurance would be far greater than 21 days. See Falklands war.

I suspect, esp. in smaller ships, that humans are the most limiting factors (your crew wears out). Then food and water. Then fuel. Weapons depends on combat: it is no good remaining at sea once weapons are expended.

 

[mohsen]

No. And I don't know what the source of that quote have in mind when writing that. For example, if constantly running high speed, fuel is finished soon, but when patrolling it may last much longer. In general, if you can replenish at sea, you're endurance would be far greater than 21 days. See Falklands war.

I suspect, esp. in smaller ships, that humans are the most limiting factors (your crew wears out). Then food and water. Then fuel. Weapons depends on combat: it is no good remaining at sea once weapons are expended.

I was quoting your words.
I'm sorry but I don't get you, as I know logistic support is even more than replenishment by helicopter and/or support ships.

 

[ihealugo]

From an operational perspective, you may well be right. Still, tonnage tends to be driven more by what systems need to be carried than by 'bunkerage'. Also, while it IS an achievement to build such a ship domestically, under severely restricted conditions, the design itself is dated: recall Iran originally ordered the Vosper MkV ships that later became SA'AM class and then Alvand class in 1966. Meanwhile, I'm sure much has changed in the Moudge/Jamaran, especially where propulsion-, weapon- and sensor-systems are concerned. So, at least some capabilities are likely to have improved relative to Alvand class.

we all know that the platform is old , so just for your information , this mowj class are built to gain the technologies , more than to use it against enemies as it was said that they may sell the jamaran 1 ship ... in jamaran 2 they changed radars and in next project mowj 3 they said that they will use some more stealth techniques to reduce RCS . and the next ship will be unveiled at the end of this year .
we are working on these missiles : Qader , Noor cruise missiles( they are NOT like the chineese missiles , they only carry the body ....)
Mehrab ( it's like standard missile but nobody know the internal systems so i won't talk about it ..
we have also projects for defense of the ships , that will be unveiled in future ...
the propulsion is the bonyan 4 engine . (for this light ships they use one of them but for bigger ships you can use up to 4 of them )
Iran mostly is working on the electronic warfare too . (most of the navy (+air and ground)commanders emphasized it before ....)
and i think we must work on 90 launch silos , because it will give us more missiles ready to launch ,,,,

it was the thing that i could mention for now ...

Bonyan 4 is fully built in iran . ( i think they had unveiled it this year ...