J-K not part of India, seeking plebiscite not a crime: Engineer Rashid

[Taimoor Khan]

Those who had "first hand knowledge" of events in Gurdaspur in 1947 are long dead(which will only be Radcliffe, Moutbatten and their staff)..rest are just conspiracy theorist..who try to piece together information from here and there and try to seem more knowledgeable than they are.

You didn't want to go to war with India..you just wanted to invade an independent state and intimidate it into submitting to your will....when british chief of staff of your army , refused to do so..you sent in your tribals.. which got you into a war with India.

Its not my concern if your access to information is limited. Not my problem. Go out and seek the knowledge, it may help you.


What a load of bullocks I just read here? Since when we wanted to go to war with India? The war was imposed on us. Kashmir was "part" of British Raj, and when the mechanism of Partition was decided, the choices are to either join Pakistan or India, independence of any British Raj states, which Kashmir was part of, was never on table. Since when Kashmir was independent in British Raj? What kinda of non sense they are teaching you in your history books? have you seen any state in post partition sub continent which opted for it own independence rather joining Pakistan or India?

Which country with sane mind would allow a smaller country within its own territory and that too Pakistani!!

This would be like having cancerous cyst within your body.Only Vatican within Italy and Kingdom of Lesotho within South Africa are examples. Vatican is a city state and Lesotho is nothing for S. Africa. Hyderabad Deccan is a much bigger peice of land to be kept independent within India. This was neither practical nor good for the future security of our Country.

SINCE WHEN KASHMIR BECAME INDIAN TERRITORY? IT WAS PART OF BRITISH COLONIAL RAJ.

I dont give a flying f*** what your excuses are for invading Hyderabad Deccan against the wishes of its ruler, the Nazim. Just interested in exposing your country duplicity.

 

[Osiris]

Its not my concern if your access to information is limited. Not my problem. Go out and seek the knowledge, it may help you.


What a load of bullocks I just read here? Since when we wanted to go to war with India? The war was imposed on us. Kashmir was "part" of British Raj, and when the mechanism of Partition was decided, the choices are to either join Pakistan or India, independence of any British Raj states, which Kashmir was part of, was never on table. Since when Kashmir was independent in British Raj? What kinda of non sense they are teaching you in your history books? have you seen any state in post partition sub continent which opted for it own independence rather joining Pakistan or India?




SINCE WHEN KASHMIR BECAME INDIAN TERRITORY? IT WAS PART OF BRITISH COLONIAL RAJ.

I dont give a flying f*** what your excuses are for invading Hyderabad Deccan against the wishes of its ruler, the Nazim. Just interested i
exposing your country duplicity.

The Independent state I was referring to above was Kashmir. You invaded the independent state of Kashmir, in order to intimidate i to join pakistan.

Kashmir was a princely state, who's Raja wanted autonomy , they had signed a stand still agreement with Pakistan and India and was negotiations with both India and Pakistan.

But your paranoia and bigotedness about the Hindus got to you and you invaded Kashmir with your tribal forces..Forcing Maharaja's hand to accede Kashmir to India.

So thank you ..for that..We wouldn't have kashmir..weren't it for your stupidity.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

The Independent state I was referring to above was Kashmir. You invaded the independent state of Kashmir, in order to intimidate i to join pakistan.

Kashmir was a princely state, who's Raja wanted autonomy , they had signed a stand still agreement with Pakistan and India and was negotiations with both India and Pakistan.

But your paranoia and bigotedness about the Hindus got to you and you invaded Kashmir with your tribal forces..Forcing Maharaja's hand to accede Kashmir to India.

So thank you ..for that..We wouldn't have kashmir..weren't it for your stupidity.

what a load of bullocks. Majority of British Raj sub-continent comprised of princely states, including Kashmir and Hyderabad Deccan, coming directly under the rule of her majesty the Queen of England. Where the hell the "INDEPENDENT" pre-partition Kashmir came into this picture? have you lost your marbles or something else?

 

[Osiris]

what a load of bullocks. Majority of British Raj sub-continent comprised of princely states, including Kashmir and Hyderabad Deccan, coming directly under the rule of her majesty the Queen of England. Where the hell the "INDEPENDENT" pre-partition Kashmir came into this picture? have you lost your marbles or something else?

Princely states as name itself suggest were not under direct rule of British crown..they had nominal Indian monarch.
They had their own flag, anthems and everything.
They just had to give royalty to the British.

But thats not even what we are debating on.\

My point was ..Kashmir is with India..just because of Pakistani paranoia about hindus.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Princely states as name itself suggest were not under direct rule of British crown..they had nominal Indian monarch.
They had their own flag, anthems and everything.
They just had to give royalty to the British.

But thats not even what we are debating on.\

My point was ..Kashmir is with India..just because of Pakistani paranoia about hindus.

Are you deliberately trying to come across as a complete idiot? Or you genuinely think that whatever you wrote is nothing but truth?

No sub-continent state of Britsh Raj was outside the Jurisdictions of the Crown. Had the Maharaja declared himself independand, his balls would have been chopped off. Tipu sultan tried that and nearly succeed but eventually had to pay with his life. And yes, he was the ruler of another princely state called Bhopal. At best, the Britsh crown, delegated the day to day running tasks to their carefully selected local yes men , maharaja of Kashmir was one of them. Your insistence of "independant" Kashmir and Pakistan invading a independant state of Kashmir is nothing but bullsh|t.

Yes, a PART of Kashmir is with India, and had Pakistan not reacted, just like Hyderabad Deccan, India would have swallowed it completely.

 

[dray]

Son, what is in common with the Brits, Spanish, the protugues, the Frenchs? If you cant figure out, they were all Colonial powers. The word India is used/invented by colonials to refer to the sub continent, it has got ZERO relevance to you lot who have now borrowed the same colonial name for yourself, thinking you will somehow borrow the history as well, LOL. how f**** stupid.
Ofcourse its all Ancient Pakistan. Just like the word "Egypt" didnt exsist in the times of Remisis the great, but in present time refered as ancient Egypt, we the people of Indus plains, in this day and age, call our land Pakistan, its our prerogative, essence of our country has already been there from the beginning of human history, hence it should be referred to as ancient Pakistan.

Using the '****' word repeatedly and calling others son or kid doesn't make you any less moron than you are, India was known as India long before India was colonized by the west, and Pakistan was also a part of the 'ancient Indian civilization' before 1947, there is no 'ancient' Pakistan. It would be terrible if the delusional crap you are writing here is actually taught in Pakistani schools.

About Kashmir; you should learn to live with that frustration for the rest of your life.

 

[Pakistani E]

First of all, J&K is historically is being part of India, By killing Hindu's and send them out and systemically increased Muslims population and demand separate land wont work.

Which hindu population? The only ones who left were Kashmiri Pandits who were never a majority anyway. The rest Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir are settlers from previous Hindu regimes. Open a history book, not your Indian standard education propoganda booklet where your history of Kashmir begins in 1989.

The Vast majority of Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir are locals who left Hindusim to join Islam.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

Which hindu population? The only ones who left were Kashmiri Pandits who were never a majority anyway. The rest Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir are settlers from previous Hindu regimes. Open a history book, not your Indian standard education propoganda booklet where your history of Kashmir begins in 1989.

The Vast majority of Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir are locals who left Hindusim to join Islam.

well , Jammu is Hindu Majority , and from Kashmir you Send Hindus out, Ladkah is 50:50.

Hindus if was in Kashmir then it will be around 40% , Kashmiri Pandis are hindus,

Telling you Hindus live in the region before islam came....

 

[SarthakGanguly]

well , Jammu is Hindu Majority , and from Kashmir you Send Hindus out, Ladkah is 50:50.

Hindus if was in Kashmir then it will be around 40% , Kashmiri Pandis are hindus,

Telling you Hindus live in the region before islam came....

So what?

The ones who are LEFT SHOULD rule the roost.

Hindus are busy fighting over reservations and nice jobs in other countries, and turning their other cheek. Such self flagellating people have no right to even exist, let alone live in their native land with their heads held high. In this world, you fight to live. Hindus probably have some other ideas. May be colonize Mars and build their ideal Ram rajya there. They won't have to fight any living beings there.

Telling you Hindus live in the region before islam came....

Islam converted Kashmir by massive force. Such force was used that some of the kings are even today hated - even by many Muslims. But hey - they WON. That is what matters.

The path is clear and the answers are there. There will never be peace in the Valley UNLESS there is either a total Islami Riyasat under a Muslim ruler OR a Hindu state under India with its Muslim inhabitant converted to Hinduism or Buddhism. Do that Hindus have the guts to do what it takes? Do they have the courage to follow what the Islamic emperors did to their ancestors?

I will answer that. NO.

So it is better to just pack your bags - move out of India and live under the protection of whoever provides it best.

 

[Pakistani E]

well , Jammu is Hindu Majority , and from Kashmir you Send Hindus out, Ladkah is 50:50.

Hindus if was in Kashmir then it will be around 40% , Kashmiri Pandis are hindus,

Telling you Hindus live in the region before islam came....

And Kashmiri Muslims have been living their for as long as the Kashmiri Pandits. Kashmir Muslims did not paratroop in to Kashmir from heaven unlike a large number of Hindus who are historically proven to have been encouraged to settle there by successive foreign regimes.

Jammu & Kashmir had 78% Muslims according to 1941 census. Division of Kashmir had its impact upon demography of the state. The percentage of Muslims within Indian administered zone remained only 72%. In 1951, there was no census in Kashmir. According to 1961 census, the Muslim percentage was projected to be only 69%. The decline became manifest with every successive census operation. 1971 census depicted Muslim population to be 67%. The percentage provided by 1981 census remained 65%.

 

[Hiptullha]

India was known as India long before India was colonized by the west, and Pakistan was also a part of the 'ancient Indian civilization' before 1947, there is no 'ancient' Pakistan.

How can Indians dig into the great empires in the past with their sewage systems, great literary works and proud rulers and associate it with their modern India, with it's designated shitting streets, cardboard, copy-cat masala Bollywood scripts and corrupt, shifty, genocidal politicians?

You didn't want to go to war with India..you just wanted to invade an independent state and intimidate it into submitting to your will....when british chief of staff of your army , refused to do so..you sent in your tribals.. which got you into a war with India.

Pakistan had a reason to involve itself in Kashmir (unlike India). The Maharaja was supressing the Poonch uprising solely made up of Kashmiris and in doing so, was forcing out lakhs of Kashmiri Muslims who fled to Pakistan.

 

[dray]

How can Indians dig into the great empires in the past with their sewage systems, great literary works and proud rulers and associate it with their modern India, with it's designated shitting streets, cardboard, copy-cat masala Bollywood scripts and corrupt, shifty, genocidal politicians?

Why Pakistanis are so desperate to claim the legacy of the "Pagan" people of Indus Valley Civilization? To be honest, if those people were alive today, then they would have been systematically discriminated, periodically killed, and most probably evicted from the landmass of Pakistan by now, no? Their legacy is only alive in India, and not in the erstwhile parts of India presently known as Pakistan.

 

[Hiptullha]

I can't comment on the "smelly Southies" part because neither I have the habit of smelling people, nor I am into a profession where I am bound to smell people, unlike you....

First, you are contradicting the common narratives of most Pakistanis who find their ancestry to the west of Pakistan.
Second, people of IVC further moved over to the Ganges valley, in fact IVC stretched to the Ganges Valley, Pakistanis' ancestry remains uncertain, I would suggest you to stick to the common narrative of Arabic, Persian, etc. ancestry as a face saver.

Lets avoid using such stereotypes. I'm not claiming that I have connection to Arabs or Persians. I have barely ever seen a Pakistani member on this forum stating anything similar. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of Southies and Bengalis like yourself making the ridiculous claim that you are somehow similar to those from the Indus Valley Civilization. I hate bringing up your ethnicity, but if the BS coming out of your mouth was coming from a Rajput then it would make a little sense, but honestly... a Bengali?

In fact, many of my fellow Bengalis and me would be fairer than most Pakistanis.

I believe you. You don't really need to convince me, since I don't care about the skin color of Bengalis. What I've noticed is that your compatriots do. I've had enough conversations with Indians living in the ME and NA to understand they look down upon you lot for your alleged dark skin color, your "funny" style of speaking, your "funny" fashion sense, and your "alien-ness". Like I said, no need to convince me.

I do partially agree with the "rapist" part though, some Bengalis did rape the mighty army of the strongest and the bravest not so long ago.....in 1971, right? I admit....

Look, I know you're trying to deflect the discussion and make a few insulting remarks, I don't mind. I'm stating some painful truths. But whatever is coming out of my keyboard is from what I've heard Indian news outlets say, I've seen PDF Indians say, and what I've seen Indian expatriates say in real life. Whatever anger and bitterness you have should be directed not at me, but at your compatriots.
Anyways, a Hindu Bengali like you probably weren't even involved in the 1971 war. Most of you lot fled the country and even with the victory, continued fleeing the country. Bangladesh's Hindu population has taken a massive hit and from what I hear on PDF, isn't exactly pretty in West Bengal either. Should a Hindu Bengali really be talking about these victories?

I've noticed that you're avoiding the question which is the only reason we're having this silly little discussion. Let me ask it again.
What makes you - a Bengali of all people the inheritor of the Indus civilization?

 

[unbiasedopinion]

As I said, you lot are too indoctrinated with trash which has been feed to you over the years, so its hard to argue with you based on the real history. You need to walk up and smell the reality sunshine.

Again how can I teach you history when you are not willing to learn? I have to refer to hard facts and grounds realities which cannot be denied or tempered with.

Hard Fact like what? Pakistan liberated so called Azad Kashmir from India? Is this your fact? Gilgit Baltistan was also liberated? Is that your fact? 1948 war was started by India . Is this your fact?
Even most of the senior Pakistani members will trash your understanding of history.

Hyderabad Deccan is very much related to Kashmir, both partition related issues, because it highlight the duplicity of India and how morally corrupt the country is.

Even if I believe you on India;s duplicity, in 1971 India stand corrected when Pakistan's theory of two nation state crumbled like deck of cards. Anyways that is a different topic, You can open another thread on it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I have never met a Southern Indian in my life. I have met plenty of Northern Indians in the Middle East and North America who do claim that their Southern counterparts do stink of their spicy curries.
Now since you avoided my point, I'll state it again. How does smelly Pajeet working in a call center in Bangalore have any connection to the Indus Valley Civilization, apart from the fact that once a week, he prostrates in front of a painting of a blue-skinned man and an elephant boy and prays to the painting for a male child?



Lets avoid using such stereotypes. I'm not claiming that I have connection to Arabs or Persians. I have barely ever seen a Pakistani member on this forum stating anything similar. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of Southies and Bengalis like yourself making the ridiculous claim that you are somehow similar to those from the Indus Valley Civilization. I hate bringing up your ethnicity, but if the BS coming out of your mouth was coming from a Rajput then it would make a little sense, but honestly... a Bengali?



I believe you. You don't really need to convince me, since I don't care about the skin color of Bengalis. What I've noticed is that your compatriots do. I've had enough conversations with Indians living in the ME and NA to understand they look down upon you lot for your alleged dark skin color, your "funny" style of speaking, your "funny" fashion sense, and your "alien-ness". Like I said, no need to convince me.



Look, I know you're trying to deflect the discussion and make a few insulting remarks, I don't mind. I'm stating some painful truths. But whatever is coming out of my keyboard is from what I've heard Indian news outlets say, I've seen PDF Indians say, and what I've seen Indian expatriates say in real life. Whatever anger and bitterness you have should be directed not at me, but at your compatriots.
Anyways, a Hindu Bengali like you probably weren't even involved in the 1971 war. Most of you lot fled the country and even with the victory, continued fleeing the country. Bangladesh's Hindu population has taken a massive hit and from what I hear on PDF, isn't exactly pretty in West Bengal either. Should a Hindu Bengali really be talking about these victories?

I've noticed that you're avoiding the question which is the only reason we're having this silly little discussion. Let me ask it again.
What makes you - a Bengali of all people the inheritor of the Indus civilization?

For a Pakistani you have a great deal of Indian friends who speak about who they like or hate.

Or may be, just may be - it's all fiction.