J-K not part of India, seeking plebiscite not a crime: Engineer Rashid

[dray]

The word "India" is a colonial term, got no ancient historic significance, created by Brits to refer these lands as colonial entity and its colonial subjects as "Indians". No wonder your obsession with foreign masters has not died down and you feel proud to be called Indian and your country India.

Please feel free to go beyond British raj, there was no "India" before British Raj, but there is a small matter of Muslim rule over subcontinent for around about thousand years.

And if you really want to go in ancient history of this region, there is only one empire, one country, one civilization, which our Pakistani ancestors build and sustained for thousands and thousands of years long before Babylonians and Egyptians, called Indus. Which effectively put us as being most ancient of all human race, mother of all human civilization. With this background, do you think, you lot in our east, the people of Ganges civilization got any standing to on your claims? You can, however, claim to be from us, like the other civilizations that came after Indus. Kashmir is just a very small part of a much larger picture here my Son. We are not claiming lands by design, but only by default. Its our sovereign birth right, for we are the people of mighty Indus, the land of pure.

We have done this over and over again, and very elaborately, but some Pakistanis seem to have very poor knowledge of history...for example; Columbus set out to find sea route of which place?

Ancient Pakistan was much larger, comprising the lands of whole current western Indian belt from Kashmir down to Gujrat, whole of Afghanistan, Iran, and some part of Turkmenistan

Ancient Pakistan!!!

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Is spewing nonsense your forte, kid? Looks like it.

Since when was Jammu & Kashmir part of Pakistan? Don't talk like an idiot!

Go and fu**** read the history son, I dont have time to educate you on the events which compelled Pakistan to go to war over Kashmir in 1948.

We strongly believe and feel confident that Kashmirs will vote for Pakistan in the plebiscite, its you who is dragging your feet on the issue. Obviously you indiots know the real score.

I was expecting this and then you accuse me of derailing the thread. We are talking about Kashmir here. So please stick to the topic.
If we keep on hanging on what happened in the distant past then there will be no solution ever. The solution will only come by understanding the current scenarios, requirements, needs and future growth.

and FYI, do not mock India's democratic system. It is much much better than many others in the world. We are able to maintain it and enjoying it. Name me one country apart from India which has the same complexity like India, hundreds of different culture, thousands of languages, many different living religions and still a single entity? Compare it with Many Christians and Islamic countries with same religion, same culture but either become multiple countries in short period or have eliminated their minorities completely.

Derialing thread? I am just showing you the mirror, the duplicity of India and the non sense it has been basing its case all these years. you are happy to swallow Kashmir when its Hindu ruler sign merger with india on a peace of paper, sealing the fate of millions without even asking them, and when the Nazim of Hyderabad did the same, you will not allow it. How long you are going to sell this bullsh|t to the world and to your own people?

 

[Osiris]

Go and fu**** read the history son, I dont have time to educate you on the events which compelled Pakistan to go to war over Kashmir in 1948.

We strongly believe and feel confident that Kashmirs will vote for Pakistan in the plebiscite, its you who is dragging your feet on the issue. Obviously you indiots know the real score.

History of Pakistani invasion of Kashmir is well know to all.

Pakistani were greedy and bigoted, they believed a Hindu Raja will only give Kashmir to India.

Instead of negotiating with Raja, who wanted autonomy more than anything, you ended up invading his state with your tribal militia, and thereby lost 3/5 th of Kashmir land and accession of Kashmir to India.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

We have done this over and over again, and very elaborately, but some Pakistanis seem to have very poor knowledge of history...for example; Columbus set out to find sea route of which place?



Ancient Pakistan!!!

Son, what is in common with the Brits, Spanish, the protugues, the Frenchs? If you cant figure out, they were all Colonial powers. The word India is used/invented by colonials to refer to the sub continent, it has got ZERO relevance to you lot who have now borrowed the same colonial name for yourself, thinking you will somehow borrow the history as well, LOL. how f**** stupid.
Ofcourse its all Ancient Pakistan. Just like the word "Egypt" didnt exsist in the times of Remisis the great, but in present time refered as ancient Egypt, we the people of Indus plains, in this day and age, call our land Pakistan, its our prerogative, essence of our country has already been there from the beginning of human history, hence it should be referred to as ancient Pakistan.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Derialing thread? I am just showing you the mirror, the duplicity of India and the non sense it has been basing its case all these years. you are happy to swallow Kashmir when its Hindu ruler sign merger with india on a peace of paper, sealing the fate of millions without even asking them, and when the Nazim of Hyderabad did the same, you will not allow it. How long you are going to sell this bullsh|t to the world and to your own people?

You can shout about it from the rooftop but still world is not gonna do anything about it. This has be decided among the stakeholders and world aint one. So stop shouting.

It was not India who invaded Kashmir when it was not even part of Indian Dominion. It was impatience of Pakistan's army who did this. On side note PA is still doing the same things by doing Kargils etc... Had Pakistan waited for some more time, Kashmir might have ended in their lap or may be an independent country without joining any of the dominion. It was Pakistan;s wicked eye and its desire to grab Kashmir is the reason for the Kashmir problem. Even when PA invaded Kashmir, India didnt enter Srinagar until Maharaja signed the instrument. After the signing, India started the military operation of defending Kashmir.

So Stop blaiming India of occupying it when in reality it is Pakistan the grabber.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

History of Pakistani invasion of Kashmir is well know to all.

Pakistani were greedy and bigoted, they believed a Hindu Raja will only give Kashmir to India.

Instead of negotiating with Raja, who wanted autonomy more than anything, you ended up invading his state with your tribal militia, and thereby lost 3/5 th of Kashmir land and accession of Kashmir to India.

That is just nothing but bullsh|t Indian propaganda. I was actually shocked to know , from an Indian source actually, who served in Indian civil services and have seen the events of partition, that the Gordaspur district which was the only land route from India to Kashmir was part of Pakistan for first few days after 14th August. It was then given to India by the Britishers , the reason became evident when India used this land route to invade Kashmir. This cunning plan of British overlords and Indian leadership was in motion way before the 1948 war.

 

[Osiris]

That is just nothing but bullsh|t Indian propaganda. I was actually shocked to know , from an Indian source actually, who served in Indian civil services and have seen the events of partition, that the Gordaspur district which was the only land route from India to Kashmir was part of Pakistan for first few days after 14th August. It was then given to India by the Britishers , the reason became evident when India used this land route to invade Kashmir. This cunning plan of British overlords and Indian leadership was in motion way before the 1948 war.

These conspiracy theories about Brithish-Indian conspiracies against Pakistan.. you had concocted in your heads don't count for much.

Had you not invaded Kashmir..India probably would have never gotten it...Since Raja only wanted autonomy and had even signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan.

So thank you very much.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

You can shout about it from the rooftop but still world is not gonna do anything about it. This has be decided among the stakeholders and world aint one. So stop shouting.

It was not India who invaded Kashmir when it was not even part of Indian Dominion. It was impatience of Pakistan's army who did this. On side note PA is still doing the same things by doing Kargils etc... Had Pakistan waited for some more time, Kashmir might have ended in their lap or may be an independent country without joining any of the dominion. It was Pakistan;s wicked eye and its desire to grab Kashmir is the reason for the Kashmir problem. Even when PA invaded Kashmir, India didnt enter Srinagar until Maharaja signed the instrument. After the signing, India started the military operation of defending Kashmir.

So Stop blaiming India of occupying it when in reality it is Pakistan the grabber.

We dont give a monkey about world anymore, cause we are now powerful enough to settle the issue on our own, BUT the perception and the understanding of matter should be crystal clear to all as to why we are doing what we believe is the right thing to do, so the powers to be cant sell your non sense to your behalf to the world. We just need to educate the world the real reasons and history.

What non sense you are talking when you said that India didnt invade the Kashmir? Why do you think there is a mass of land called "Azad" (free) Kashmir exists which was fought and wrestled off from the Indian forces in 1948 war till your PM Nehru went running to UN for the cease fire promising for the plebiscite? you went against the will of Nazim of Hyderabad state for merger with Pakistan and engulfed his state, you went against he will of millions of Kashmires because one maharaja who wanted a merger of India. Anyone with little bit of common sense will understand the Indian duplicity. You dont stand on any moral grounds, and that what we in Pakistan needs to highlight, cause when push comes to shove, no one will point fingers at us, not even your western overlords.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

We dont give a monkey about world anymore, cause we are now powerful enough to settle the issue on our own, BUT the perception and the understanding of matter should be crystal clear to all as to why we are doing what we believe is the right thing to do, so the powers to be cant sell your non sense to your behalf to the world. We just need to educate the world the real reasons and history.

What non sense you are talking when you said that India didnt invade the Kashmir? Why do you think there is a mass of land called "Azad" (free) Kashmir exists which was fought and wrestled off from the Indian forces in 1948 war till your PM Nehru went running to UN for the cease fire promising for the plebiscite? you went against the will of Nazim of Hyderabad state for merger with Pakistan and engulfed his state, you went against he will of millions of Kashmires because one maharaja who wanted a merger of India. Anyone with little bit of common sense will understand the Indian duplicity. You dont stand on any moral grounds, and that what we in Pakistan needs to highlight, cause when push comes to shove, no one will point fingers at us, not even your western overlords.

You really need to learn or atleast read the history of 1947-48 war from independent sources. You are in your own world with own history which is far far away from the reality. I suggest do read some independent foreign historian narration of Kashmir history during partition without any prejudice. Then we will talk.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

These conspiracy theories about Brithish-Indian conspiracies against Pakistan.. you had concocted in your heads don't count for much.

Had you not invaded Kashmir..India probably would have never gotten it...Since Raja only wanted autonomy and had even signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan.

So thank you very much.

Speak to someone in your country who has got first hand knowledge of the events, specially related to Gurdaspur district. I can only try to educate you, if you are unwilling to learn, I cant help you.

In 1948, Pakistan hardly had a standing and viable army to start a war with 10 times bigger India. For heaven sake we had to rely on our citizens, our tribals to help our Army in face of Indian aggression. Do you really think with this background, we were the invaders?

You really need to learn or atleast read the history of 1947-48 war from independent sources. You are in your own world with own history which is far far away from the reality. I suggest do read some independent foreign historian narration of Kashmir history during partition without any prejudice. Then we will talk.

You will not except my history and I will take yours as non sense. Lets leave the history,lets talk about the ground realities and facts. Do you agree the Kashmir was a Muslim dominated state during the event of partition? Do you agree the Nazim of Hyderabad, the muslim ruler, wanted to merger his state with Pakistan?

 

[unbiasedopinion]

You will not except my history and I will take yours as non sense.

Read the history first buddy. I cannot talk with someone with prejudice and cannot accept the realities. You are still stuck in your own partition era without even aware of the truth of the Kashmir war.

Lets leave the history,lets talk about the ground realities and facts. Do you agree the Kashmir was a Muslim dominated state during the event of partition?

Really!!! You are one confused personality. In one sentence you are telling me to leave history and then asking me about the realities of partition. Do you really think before writing or you get lost while writing.

Do you agree the Nazim of Hyderabad, the muslim ruler, wanted to merger his state with Pakistan?

Again, I am not talking about Hyderabad or Sindh or Baluchistan..I am talking about Kashmir. Don't let me repeat it or else I will not support you in derailing the thread further.

 

[Osiris]

Speak to someone in your country who has got first hand knowledge of the events, specially related to Gurdaspur district. I can only try to educate you, if you are unwilling to learn, I cant help you.

In 1948, Pakistan hardly had a standing and viable army to start a war with 10 times bigger India. For heaven sake we had to rely on our citizens, our tribals to help our Army in face of Indian aggression. Do you really think with this background, we were the invaders?

Those who had "first hand knowledge" of events in Gurdaspur in 1947 are long dead(which will only be Radcliffe, Moutbatten and their staff)..rest are just conspiracy theorist..who try to piece together information from here and there and try to seem more knowledgeable than they are.

You didn't want to go to war with India..you just wanted to invade an independent state and intimidate it into submitting to your will....when british chief of staff of your army , refused to do so..you sent in your tribals.. which got you into a war with India.

 

[Soulspeek]

Once Indian Government gives Army free hand, then you will see how soon normalcy returns and Pakistanis flag waving yahoos floating like logs in Jhelum.

geographically and culturally Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, Kashmiris not cow-ards to cross border, once occupying Hindian army is kicked out - peace and happiness will prevail in the valley

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Read the history first buddy. I cannot talk with someone with prejudice and cannot accept the realities. You are still stuck in your own partition era without even aware of the truth of the Kashmir war.


Really!!! You are one confused personality. In one sentence you are telling me to leave history and then asking me about the realities of partition. Do you really think before writing or you get lost while writing.


Again, I am not talking about Hyderabad or Sindh or Baluchistan..I am talking about Kashmir. Don't let me repeat it or else I will not support you in derailing the thread further.

As I said, you lot are too indoctrinated with trash which has been feed to you over the years, so its hard to argue with you based on the real history. You need to walk up and smell the reality sunshine.

Again how can I teach you history when you are not willing to learn? I have to refer to hard facts and grounds realities which cannot be denied or tempered with.

Hyderabad Deccan is very much related to Kashmir, both partition related issues, because it highlight the duplicity of India and how morally corrupt the country is.

 

[Soulspeek]

Which country with sane mind would allow a smaller country within its own territory and that too Pakistani!!

This would be like having cancerous cyst within your body.Only Vatican within Italy and Kingdom of Lesotho within South Africa are examples. Vatican is a city state and Lesotho is nothing for S. Africa. Hyderabad Deccan is a much bigger peice of land to be kept independent within India. This was neither practical nor good for the future security of our Country.

As I said, you lot are too indoctrinated with trash which has been feed to you over the years, so its hard to argue with you based on the real history. You need to walk up and smell the reality sunshine.

Again how can I teach you history when you are not willing to learn? I have to refer to hard facts and grounds realities which cannot be denied or tempered with.

Hyderabad Deccan is very much related to Kashmir, both partition related issues, because it highlight the duplicity of India and how morally corrupt the country is.