J-31 possibly being tested & evaluated in Pakistan

[Hassan Guy]

i am obsessed with the people who talk abt f35 for paf..like they will give us or we can afford it[emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] .....and yes paf will customize j31 itself

F-35 is cheaper then J-20. J-31 won't be cheap either.

 

[WarFariX]

F-35 is cheaper then J-20. J-31 won't be cheap either.

j31 intended to be cheap.f35 most expensiv stealth currently. j31 not more than $50m unit while f35 is 200m $ including training and spare. j31 sanction free ..can be offered with tot .f35 sanctions hi sanction

 

[Maxpane]

I think people who ask f 35 did not learn lesson from f 16

 

[Zain Malik]

I am not in Favour of Lockheed MArtin MT@PDC...I know the sanctions we have faced on F-16...
I was just saying that AirCheif Stated Lm in his Interview....And who knows Except Allah what will happen..!!

 

[nana41]

Well according to the video source, the aircraft should start arriving in 2017.

Well according to the video source, the aircraft should start arriving in 2017.

During Zuhai Air Show J-31 was absent which strengthened the rumours that this project has been cancelled . This project was started by china for export only,like Chinese participation in jf-17 project.Since Pakistan has not shown any serious interest in J-31project and on the other hand is more interested in joint venture with Turkish 5th Generation program , this news about J-31 joining PAF is little suspicious .

 

[Reichsmarschall]

whats the update?

 

[devil302]

whats the update?

v1&v2

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think people who ask f 35 did not learn lesson from f 16

Add that Cobra story now to the mix as well as ordered items with a bad supplier



However, If ordered 36 (with 4 Trainers Models), J31 , it would have similar Psychological Impact as arrival of F16 in 80's . J-31 even in it's present form , would be a gamble worth taking. It would add to the depth of Operational capability for Pakistani Airforce


If our Money for Super Cobra helicopters is returned from USA, I would invest that 100% into J31 Order in 3-4 Days may be this cancellation of Super Cobra is a Eid gif from all mighty to guide us to invest in real plane for our need


There is no backlog for orders for plane if we order our deliveries will be on time and we will get our planes first. The optimum delivery preferential aspect of deal would be in Pakistani Maximum National Interest

This plane is NOT needed to be expert Dog fighter we just need it for Tactical Usage in battle field.

JF17 Block III will be doing the heavy lifting and Airspace Security role

F31 would be a special asset - Go In Take Out , come back more or less used like a Sniper or Assassin


This is a no brainer we should have already Ordered 40 planes to counter threat


Northern ACE SQUADRON 1 = 18 Units
Southern ACE SQUADRON 2 = 18 Units
Western ACE SQUADRON = 4 Units (Not full squadron)



In case in future we find that we love the potential of the craft we can always order next batch. We really need this plane in so more older planes can go to retirement faster

Ordering 40 now would enable us a refill with another 50 planes down the line

 

[araz]

Add that Cobra story now to the mix as well as ordered items with a bad supplier



However, If ordered 36 (with 4 Trainers Models), J31 , it would have similar Psychological Impact as arrival of F16 in 80's . J-31 even in it's present form , would be a gamble worth taking. It would add to the depth of Operational capability for Pakistani Airforce


If our Money for Super Cobra helicopters is returned from USA, I would invest that 100% into J31 Order in 3-4 Days may be this cancellation of Super Cobra is a Eid gif from all mighty to guide us to invest in real plane for our need


There is no backlog for orders for plane if we order our deliveries will be on time and we will get our planes first. The optimum delivery preferential aspect of deal would be in Pakistani Maximum National Interest

This plane is NOT needed to be expert Dog fighter we just need it for Tactical Usage in battle field.

JF17 Block III will be doing the heavy lifting and Airspace Security role

F31 would be a special asset - Go In Take Out , come back more or less used like a Sniper or Assassin


This is a no brainer we should have already Ordered 40 planes to counter threat


Northern ACE SQUADRON 1 = 18 Units
Southern ACE SQUADRON 2 = 18 Units
Western ACE SQUADRON = 4 Units (Not full squadron)



In case in future we find that we love the potential of the craft we can always order next batch. We really need this plane in so more older planes can go to retirement faster

Ordering 40 now would enable us a refill with another 50 planes down the line

Bhai.
The plane is a mere prototype. At Prototype stage we have heard of a weak engine, and no interest from PLAN. When you put a protoype up for sale you are looking for a benefactor to fund the project. The cost could run into billions as all the niggles are ironed out to give you a viable and functioning product. The time could easily run into 7-10 yrs.This is even before you get your first low rate production model. So for 40 planes your basic costing will be cost(say 60 million+1/40 of 1 billion =25 million. Then add cost of developing infrastucture, armaments, radars, other goodies and you could easily go past 120- 130 million. If anything goes wrong and more money and time is needed you may have sunk your billion dollars and still need more. Look at the development cost of the F35 as an example. This is not a good idea. The better idea would be to wait and see whether the PLAN chooses the J31, let them foot the bill for its development, mature the platform and then go and buy 40 units.PLAN needs are such that with 250 platforms ordered the development costs will get diluted and you may end up paying 80-90 million per unit. I hope that explains the situation. Eventually if J31 does not come online, J20 will be put up for sale to PAF in 2023-25 bracket.
A

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We would be flying our own Stealth Fighter in Airforce with same engines that fly JF17 Thunder so the arguments make no sense that on JF-17 the engine is completely acceptable but if we put the same engine on a J-31 Stealth platform with Twin Engine , suddenly the stealth fighter jet is not up to PAF standards

J-31 , twin engine are giving the Jet more speed/acceleration capabilities and additional features of Stealth but some how it is not up to par

To me J-31 is at similar level as JF17 Block 1 , but with stealth capabilities and that itself is sufficient for consideration

We can always introduce a different Chinese engine in future which we develop for JF17 Block III. The Avionics package I would imagine would be no less then that of JF17 Block I


If I had to choose

a) Fly 1970's 40 Mirage
b) Fly 40 J-31

I would likely opt to have the 40 J-31, knowing fully I am getting Stealth / Modern BVR
With potential upgrade possible on helmet technology

The Additional Money we are spending is really for Stealth features

Conceptional Tech on J-31

vs Mirage older tech (Last updated in 90's plane is origionally from 70's)

 

[araz]

We would be flying our own Stealth Fighter in Airforce with same engines that fly JF17 Thunder so the arguments make no sense that on JF-17 the engine is completely acceptable but if we put the same engine on a J-31 Stealth platform with Twin Engine , suddenly the stealth fighter jet is not up to PAF standards

J-31 , twin engine are giving the Jet more speed/acceleration capabilities and additional features of Stealth but some how it is not up to par

To me J-31 is at similar level as JF17 Block 1 , but with stealth capabilities and that itself is sufficient for consideration

We can always introduce a different Chinese engine in future which we develop for JF17 Block III. The Avionics package I would imagine would be no less then that of JF17 Block I


If I had to choose

a) Fly 1970's 40 Mirage
b) Fly 40 J-31

I would likely opt to have the 40 J-31, knowing fully I am getting Stealth / Modern BVR
With potential upgrade possible on helmet technology

The Additional Money we are spending is really for Stealth features

Conceptional Tech on J-31

vs Mirage older tech (Last updated in 90's plane is origionally from 70's)

There is a reason you have a more advanced engine on a stealth fighter. It has repeatedly been written that the current J31 is underpowered with 2 RD93. This affects its maneouverability. Also the chinese themselves are in the process of introducing a new engine for the fighter. The second notion of J31 being a JFt with twin engines is so warped I dont even know where to atart taking it apart. Do you have no concept of the differences between a single engined light fighter and a medium twin engined fighter?
Your post is simplistic in ignoring all the other aspects that I have mentioned, the cost implications if you step into the programme NOW. You have chosen to ignore all of that and gone on to purchasing numbers. These numbers may not be available to you for the next 10-12 yrs and by the time you induct sufficient numbers you are looking at 2030, with an underpowered dud with no progression as the Chinese will simply stop pouring money into the plane and ask you to invest in the platform. This will soon make it very very expensive and PAF MAY have to retreat from the programme without a plane as the costs spiral out of control. It is not without reason PAF is sitting on the fence and not committing. AND THANK THE LORD they are not committing at the moment.
A

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It is stealth and that is worth it a stealth craft can make an impact without needing to engage in dog fight

The idea behind 40 Stealth J-31 is really to have a Stealth platform with BVR missiles or hidden specialty weapon, participate in secret missions

We have JF17 Block III for Air security or engaging other party in 1 vs 1 , the purpose of the Stealth craft is different

The plane is not for acrobatics in air

40 J-31 would give some much needed modernization for retiring of few older generation plane and arrival of a tactical Unit

 

[araz]

It is stealth and that is worth it a stealth craft can make an impact without needing to engage in dog fight

The idea behind 40 Stealth J-31 is really to have a Stealth platform with BVR missiles or hidden specialty weapon, participate in secret missions

We have JF17 Block III for Air security or engaging other party in 1 vs 1 , the purpose of the Stealth craft is different

The plane is not for acrobatics in air

40 J-31 would give some much needed modernization for retiring of few older generation plane and arrival of a tactical Unit

You are either not paying attention to what is being written or clearly fixated on your idea which is not a good thing.
I know what J31 is. What you are not understanding is that without PLAAF/PLAN backup the Chinese input into it will be minimal and all expenses for development will be incurred by the PAF. AS SUCH there is a genuine possibility that after having sunk in 1-2 billion dollars or even more you may not have a product to fly. This is the risk which PAF after being stung by the Chinese reneging on the JFT deal is not going to take. J31 looks good to the eye but is it really a product to take on and develop is something only PAF can tell you. In the economic world of armaments if you have got someone by their short and curlies on a research product you suck them for everything they have got which is why there have been no takers for J31. This is my last post on the topic.
Regards

 

[LKJ86]

You are either not paying attention to what is being written or clearly fixated on your idea which is not a good thing.
I know what J31 is. What you are not understanding is that without PLAAF/PLAN backup the Chinese input into it will be minimal and all expenses for development will be incurred by the PAF. AS SUCH there is a genuine possibility that after having sunk in 1-2 billion dollars or even more you may not have a product to fly. This is the risk which PAF after being stung by the Chinese reneging on the JFT deal is not going to take. J31 looks good to the eye but is it really a product to take on and develop is something only PAF can tell you. In the economic world of armaments if you have got someone by their short and curlies on a research product you suck them for everything they have got which is why there have been no takers for J31. This is my last post on the topic.
Regards

It is said that FC-31 has got the orders from PLAAF/PLAN.

 

[jupiter2007]

j31 intended to be cheap.f35 most expensiv stealth currently. j31 not more than $50m unit while f35 is 200m $ including training and spare. j31 sanction free ..can be offered with tot .f35 sanctions hi sanction

Disagree on the J-31 cost.
Chinese are selling J-10 latest verision for 65+ million, you think they will sell J-31 for 50 millon?