J-20B (FC-20B) news

[volatile]

Hi Every one here forgets 5th Gen is not plane its basically system where Plane is one variable ,i see all nations lacking in that part other than US followed by Russia with 10 years roughly and Chinese with 2-3 years away from Russia ,With Chinese incremental graph it wont be surprize if they catch with US in all system of 5th Gen by 2025/2030 surpassing Russians (No offense just my thoughts) . having 5th Gen plane is one thing complementing is another , Turks have come up with great indigenous systems and there foundations are strong i believe with experience of European n US i think if Turks play there cards right they will have a system ready much before than many nations of the world .

 

[Ultima Thule]

What PAF wants is another story ! What I wrote is something else

I clearly understand but it not possible to getting J-20 in near future, first customer is PLAAF to induct as many J-20 to counter USA (F-22,F35) Japan (ATDX), South Korean (KFX)

 

[ziaulislam]

Project "Azm" is the new Goal

• Aquiring development rights to the J-31 , would be a great potential deal

However it seems J-20 is more superior product
J-20 is really "Angel of Death" for Enemies

Side Note:
If a product is under development i.e J-31 , it is highly unlikely Pakistan has evaluated or rejected it's induction in Pakistan Airforce. All defence articles are deeply tested by actual flight and usability testing so highly doubtful J-31 has been rejected

• The Export Chances of J-20 would be an interesting debate, we would have to ensure no American Engineer is near this plane or on Air Base. J-20 arriva would mean being stationed in Air base perhaps which does not have F16. I don't assume requirements would be that high for J-31

That's already the case f16 are at separate bases

 

[Ultima Thule]

J-31.although, has 2 engines but is compared to F-35 in size(which is single engine)...so it arises question about payload comparison of both fighters

I think payload capabilities of both jets roughly will be same (just my to cents) and remember that Chinese doesn't have a similar kind of engine like F-135 thats why they put 2 RD-93/WS-13 engine to FC-31 to compensate thrust deficiency

Now, even J-20 is omnirole, but we should go for it bcoz this role is desired and imperative for keeping an air force roughly twice of your size, in check.

Main mission of J-20 will be AIR DEFENSE with Secondary/limited ground attack capabilities, and by the way who told you that J-20 omnirole

 

[!eon]

I clearly understand but it not possible to getting J-20 in near future, first customer is PLAAF to induct as many J-20 to counter USA (F-22,F35) Japan (ATDX), South Korean (KFX)

I brought the unique case of a Chinese former top gun, not available for export but only available for Pakistan. 2007 is not far away history in geopolitics.
If you have any concrete statement of Chinese, clearly mentioning "J-20's non availability for Pakistan", please bring it.
Otherwise kindly don't waste my and your time. I don't want to hear your Ideas and thoughts. You even don't know what China has shared with Pakistan in top military tech.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Bro Pakistan is not global market for China
They even signed a contract for 36 J-10B with Pakistan, when it was not available for sale in global market.

China: 'Pakistan is our Israel'

US didn't gave Israel F-22 they are giving them F-35

 

[ghauri05]

I think payload capabilities of both jets roughly will be same (just my to cents) and remember that Chinese doesn't have a similar kind of engine like F-135 thats why they put 2 RD-93/WS-13 engine to FC-31 to compensate thrust deficiency

Main mission of J-20 will be AIR DEFENSE with Secondary/limited ground attack capabilities, and by the way who told you that J-20 omnirole

Knucklehead you are saying that it's a single mission aircraft in your previous post...
BTW I am advocating that air defense role in PAF as PAF has no such single fighter....in addition to it..I am also in favor of twin engine fighters...but only worry was payload
As with JF-17,its small fighter so it has limitations regarding payload

BTW I watched youtube video j-31..according to which it can carry 6 WVR or 4 BVR...AAMand it's range was mentioned about 1250km..which is roughly the range of jf-17

So my point is if we go for J-31..we will again get trapped in problem of less range and payload..as compared to our adversary which migh get PAK-FA
It will be like SU-30 vs F16/Thunder again

 

[!eon]

US didn't gave Israel F-22 they are giving them F-35

That's symbolic attachment remark, Pakistan is not even Israel, Pakistan is Pakistan. Pakistan, China relations are very different from US Israel relations.
China hasn't that particular concern from Pakistan, which US had from Israel, i.e. transfer of technology.

 

[Ultima Thule]

So my point is if we go for J-31..we will again get trapped in problem of less range and payload..as compared to our adversary which migh get PAK-FA

PAK-FA/FGFA will have little chance to induct in IAF in near future because IAF is not happy with PAK-FA/FGFA specification/ LOW OSERVABLE FEATURES, it is more likely to assume than they will induct F-35 or focusing thier 5th gen project AMCA which will be com into fruition after 2035 so your concerns is baseless

Knucklehead you are saying that it's a single mission aircraft in your previous post...
BTW I am advocating that air defense role in PAF as PAF has no such single fighter....in addition to it..I am also in favor of twin engine fighters...but only worry was payload

but this you thought not PAF and multi-role 5th gen jet (F-35, FC-31) will be more useful than single missions 5th gen jet (F-22, J-20) its liability on PAF with little advatage so what your point

 

[ghazi768]

Honestly tell me can we launch an aggressive mission with just f16s and thunders??

I believe that yes they can. Can you give reasons of why not?

Every air force in the world is aggressive air force..i don't know why PAF has become the only defensive airforce....if we have limitations coz of some resources today..we should aim for going aggressive role in future..otherwise we will be always at mercy of our enemy

Who said it is not aggressive airforce.. airforce is inherently offensive in nature like cavalry used to be in older times. Doctrinally it is strategically defensive and tactically offensive, hope you can understand the difference.

based on rumors and speculations```not fact```I personally would feel very lucky to see WS-15 operational during that time frame````


based on rumors and speculations```not fact```I personally would feel very lucky to see WS-15 operational during that time frame````

You may be right but I think that China has now been able to work out how to mine rhenium and this will have very good effect on life, efficiency of its engines. I think by 2021-22, we'll have a good idea if they can provide us a good 15 tons thrust engine.

 

[ghauri05]

I believe that yes they can. Can you give reasons of why not?

Who said it is not aggressive airforce.. airforce is inherently offensive in nature like cavalry used to be in older times. Doctrinally it is strategically defensive and tactically offensive, hope you can understand the difference.

Tell me 1 scenario,where PAF with current strength can launch an offensive against IAF???They have good SAM systems plus 250+ air superiority fighters
We lack in both...The only possible way I can think of is..that PAF can somehow dissuade IAF's aggression in which IAF loses numerous planes..only then we might be able to launch counter aggressive move

PAK-FA/FGFA will have little chance to induct in IAF in near future because IAF is not happy with PAK-FA/FGFA specification/ LOW OSERVABLE FEATURES, it is more likely to assume than they will induct F-35 or focusing thier 5th gen project AMCA which will be com into fruition after 2035 so your concerns is baseless


but this you thought not PAF and multi-role 5th gen jet (F-35, FC-31) will be more useful than single missions 5th gen jet (F-22, J-20) its liability on PAF with little advatage so what your point

I don't know about the specifications of AMCA..n if it's a heavy aircraft then my doubts will be reasonable...regarding PAK-FA...it's not a mature platform yet..i agree but may be in 10 years it becomes 1..and IAF may go for it then..off the shelf buy...they got money they can do it..so never eliminate this possibility.

Now...how does an air superiority has little advantage for PAF??look mate...you need to develop your capabilities according to threat perception...just answer me in an all out war..when IAF launches aggression with 300 aircrafts..which plane will be able to stop them or have a better chance..an air superiority heavy or a multi role medium???its a simple question

 

[Ultima Thule]

I don't know about the specifications of AMCA..n if it's a heavy aircraft then my doubts will be reasonable...regarding PAK-FA...it's not a mature platform yet..i agree but may be in 10 years it becomes 1..and IAF may go for it then..off the shelf buy...they got money they can do it..so never eliminate this possibility.

Russian are struggling to finance their PAK-FA project

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Old days of minimum deterrence are long gone dude. THEY are coming after Pakistan now after Iraq Afghanistan etc. And I think some people in PAF realize this or if they dont they better get their game right.

I believe that yes they can. Can you give reasons of why not?



Who said it is not aggressive airforce.. airforce is inherently offensive in nature like cavalry used to be in older times. Doctrinally it is strategically defensive and tactically offensive, hope you can understand the difference.



You may be right but I think that China has now been able to work out how to mine rhenium and this will have very good effect on life, efficiency of its engines. I think by 2021-22, we'll have a good idea if they can provide us a good 15 tons thrust engine.

 

[ghauri05]

Russian are struggling to finance their PAK-FA project

They are now..but it is quite possible to supply funds in future..e.g..you are hearing almost every country is buying S-400 and russians are gonna make huge bounty out of this system..it is simply 1 example..there can be other sales from which russia earns money n funds this project

 

[Ultima Thule]

Now...how does an air superiority has little advantage for PAF??look mate...you need to develop your capabilities according to threat perception...just answer me in an all out war..

when IAF launches aggression with 300 aircrafts

..which plane will be able to stop them or have a better chance..an air superiority heavy or a multi role medium???its a simple question

With the exception of F-86 saber "ALL PAF FIGHTER JET WERE MULTI-ROLE" with the exception of PAF naval air arm
All those jet are not for their western border/Pakistan, they spread 2 fronts western/northern borders, look brother if you have the J-20 single mission jet ( J-20) which is extremely expansive (110-150 million $$$$$$$) and use only single purpose (Air superiority) and J-31 is true multi-role 5th gen jet and relatively CHEAP as compare to J-20 (80-100 million $$$$$) which will be converted into full air superiority jet if needed with extra capability to conduct CAS, ground attack and Naval strike

They are now..but it is quite possible to supply funds in future..e.g..you are hearing almost every country is buying S-400 and russians are gonna make huge bounty out of this system..it is simply 1 example..there can be other sales from which russia earns money n funds this project

Which every country? there are only 3 countries who operated S-400 and Future operator is is also 3, first they want to induct as many as S-400 into Russian SAM networks, and do your research before you posting bro