What's new

J-11B vs Su-30MKI

J-11B VS su-30MKI comparision should be made in avionics.... And not in the weight. Su-30MKI is the best jet fighter in asia due to what it uses inside it. Su-30MKI can kill any jet fighter of asia. Although i doubt it can take on F-22 and Eurofighter typhoon because their avionics bit ahead then su-30MKI.... About vietnaam su-30 was just a jet fighter with no capability. If vietnaam were using Su-30MKI then chinese jet fighter would have been dead.... India even threaten chinese navy ship and warned that next time they try to mess in indian ocean than su-30MKI would jam their ship totaly. This shows what Su-30MKI using. India should thank europe for it.... Our next step should be to upgrade vietnaam jetfighters with latest avionics. Todays war mostly depends on avionics. Su-30 is a great jetfighter but without good avionics its just a normal jetfighter....
 
.
J-11B VS su-30MKI comparision should be made in avionics.... And not in the weight. Su-30MKI is the best jet fighter in asia due to what it uses inside it. Su-30MKI can kill any jet fighter of asia. Although i doubt it can take on F-22 and Eurofighter typhoon because their avionics bit ahead then su-30MKI.... About vietnaam su-30 was just a jet fighter with no capability. If vietnaam were using Su-30MKI then chinese jet fighter would have been dead.... India even threaten chinese navy ship and warned that next time they try to mess in indian ocean than su-30MKI would jam their ship totaly. This shows what Su-30MKI using. India should thank europe for it.... Our next step should be to upgrade vietnaam jetfighters with latest avionics. Todays war mostly depends on avionics. Su-30 is a great jetfighter but without good avionics its just a normal jetfighter....

GODS GIFT TO AVIATION!
 
.
Compared: Su-30MKI vs J-11B

Maneuverability

No need to argue that the Su-30MKI to say is the most powerful variant of the Su-30 family that had built Sukhoi. India is a strategic partner of Russia is particularly important, so do not be surprised when they spent New Delhi for the special offers.

Su-30MKI is developed on the basis of the framework of the Su-27 fighter this share to 85% hardware fighter 4 + + generation Su-35 modernization of Russia. Su-30MKI most used electronic systems produced by India, later upgraded variant uses electronic systems mixture Russia - France - India - Israel turned its fighters into multi nationality.

dosucSu30J11_KTo_4702.jpg

At maneuverability with canards, thrust vector engines, the Su-30MKI clearly superior to J-11.

Strengths of the Su-30MKI of the aerodynamics is equipped with canards help supplement this fighter more maneuverable in close-range combat situations. In addition, the Su-30MKI is equipped with AL-31FP engines with thrust vector capability. That is, the engine nozzle capable of moving up and down in the plane ± 15 degrees (this engine was a precursor of the engine thrust vector control manifold).

The combination of canards with thrust vector engines for Su-30MKI to be superior in air combat situations. Meanwhile, the J-11 does not have canards, though it inherited characteristics Vietnam aerodynamic advantages of Su-27 family, but not by maneuverable Su-30MKI.

On the other hand, only J-11 is equipped with AL-31F engines do not have thrust vector capability, equipped with the WS-10A engine produced by China are even worse. In terms of maneuverability, formidable Su-30MKI than J-11.

Avionics

Su-30MKI is equipped with electronic systems multinationals (Russia, France, India and Israel), while the J-11 is equipped with electronic systems mainly due to Chinese manufacturers.

"Heart" of the Su-30MKI's radar phased N011M Bars passive electronically, this is a multi-mode radar with digital dual-band.

N011M Bars provide supervisory regime for not, the sea, the land at the same time. Radar is capable of detecting targets at distances up to 400km, track targets at a distance of 200km and 60km Hemisphere Hemisphere before then. N011M capable of tracking 15 targets and attack four targets simultaneously.

Help for N011M Bars radar station is located OLS-30 laser optics, this is a combination of search systems and infrared target designation system IRST and laser target designation. Target detection range of up to 90km OLS-30, target displayed on the LCD screen in the cockpit similar to radar.

dosucSu30J11_KTo_4703.jpg

"God's eyes" of the Su-30MKI (on) more powerful in every way than the kind of J-11B (below).

Meanwhile, J-11 is equipped with radar N001V TS101M processor is only capable of simultaneously tracking 10 targets and guide missiles kill a single target. Radar is capable of detecting the target area radar 3M2 feedback reach 100km range hemisphere hemisphere before and after 40km, the search range is 240km maximum target.

Variations improved J-11B is equipped with radar N001VE processor is capable of guiding the missile attack two targets simultaneously. Support for the radar system N001V/VE search and target designation OLS-27 infrared search range up to 70km target.

In electronic systems Su-30MKI continues outperformed J-11, upgraded variant Sukhoi Su-30MKI Super will be equipped with radar active phased electronic AESA radar Zhuk-EA is more powerful.

weapons

Basically, weapons payload of Su-30MKI and the J-11 is similar (8 tons). However, the Su-30MKI is equipped with weapons that have dreamed J-11 does not have to be. One of the weapons "independent" of the Su-30MKI is a supersonic cruise missile BrahMos.Voi 300km range, BrahMos is indeed "a nightmare" for any objective ground / sea level to.

Besides, India also plans to integrate Nirbhay cruise missile with a range of 1,000 km to the Su-30MKI. India also offered with MBDA Group (Europe) to integrate "assassins kill up" Brimstone for the Su-30MKI fighters.

Meanwhile, ground-attack weapons and the most powerful strength that J-11 can be used as cruise missiles, ground attack Kh-59 at a range of 115km, along with anti-radar missiles Kh-31P.Xet the possibility of soil, J-11 is very much underdogs against Su-30MKI.

51d0e1a8d35c6.jpg

Su-30MKI can carry more weapons that J-11 can not get, such as missile BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missiles, A2A long-range missile Novator K-100, ASTRA.


Back-to-air weapons, in addition to the main missile like R-73, R-27, R-77 that the Su-30MKI and the J-11 is equipped with the Su-30MKI is a weapon of "crisis" other J-11 does not have the missiles do not reach super far Novator K-100.


Novator K-100 has a range of up to 300 kilometers, is specially designed to destroy aircraft commander and early warning of enemy air (AWACS). In addition, India also offered to help integrate group MBDA missiles Meteor was not out of sight range of 100 km for the Su-30MKI. With no weapons of Su-30MKI continues outperformed J-11.

080713_thgi_TLando1_dan-viet.jpg

ASTRA is designed to destroy targets from a distance of 20-110km with a maximum operating altitude of 20-35km.

big18967.jpg

India has also proposed MBDA Meteor missile integrated into SU-30MKI fighter of them

J-11B

20101210-34s.jpg


In mid-2002, SAC unveiled its intention to build an upgraded multirole version of the J-11 by revealing a mock-up aircraft carrying various types of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. Russian sources also confirmed that SAC was pursuing a multirole variant of the J-11 designated J-11B with much greater Chinese-made content. At least three examples (#523, #524, and #525) of the J-11B have been delivered to the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) for flight test and evaluation since 2006. The aircraft was based on the Su-27SK/J-11 airframe, but with the following modifications:

An indigenous multifunctional pulse-Doppler fire-control radar reportedly capable of tracking 6~8 targets and engaging 4 of them simultaneously;
An indigenous digital flight-control system;
A Chinese copy of the Russian OEPS-27 electro-optic search and tracking system;
A strapdown INS/GPS navigation system;
A ‘glass’ cockpit featuring four colour multifunctional displays (MFD) and a wide-angle holographic head-up display (HUD);

4e1713e06470714575559aa48d627a15.jpg


The difference in the electronic system than the Su-27 include:
- A system that detects targets by Chinese IRST Infrared alternative design for OLS-27 system.
- A phased array radar similar to radar Zhuk-27, it covers your specific system distinguishes IFF.
- Pressurization and oxygen systems integrated in the new J-11B OBOGS appear before Russian equipment similar system in their products.
- The glass cockpit is designed quite nicely with asymmetrical layout is completely different from the variant and the Su-27SMKs Su-30MKK/MK2.
- A system of missile warning sensor optical Maws was declared operational in the ultraviolet spectrum.
- Dielectric sheet stability not seen in any of the Russian variant.

Thus, the J-11B can be seen as an offshoot of the Flanker family is not entirely a copy of the Su-27SK.

The aircraft could carry the Chinese-made PL-8 IR-homing SRAAM and PL-12 active radar-homing MRAAM for air-to-air combat. While the PLAAF currently has the capability for two-target engagement using the Su-27/-30 and R-77 (AA-12 Adder) combination, successful integration of the PL-12 on the J-11B would likely provide a genuine multi-target engagement capability. The J-11B is also expected to have enhanced air-to-surface attack capabilities with the indigenous precision strike ammunitions such as LT-2 laser-guided bomb, the LS-6 precision-guided glide bomb, the YJ-91 (Kh-31P) anti-radiation missile, and the KD-88 air-to-surface missile.

During the 6th Zhuhai Air Show held between 31 October and 5 November 2006, China revealed first official details about the indigenously developed FWS-10A ‘TaiHang’ turbofan engine. The engine had already been successfully tested on a modified Su-27K fighter and possibly on some J-11 airframes too. The engine is understood to be similar to the Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31F turbofan engine in both technology and performance. However, it is unclear whether the FWS-10A has already been fitted on the 'indigenised' variant of the J-11.

On a side specs alone, the Su-30MKI must stomp J-11 in all indicators. However, anyone who would win in a real dogfight if it depends on many factors other objective and subjective.
 
.
Two different aircrafts with different purpose..

MKI is airsuperiority and frontline fighter for India where as J11B wont do that role for PLAF... PLAF have J10B and forthcoming J20 for that role.. For India, they have to rely on MKI till they get FGFA..
 
. . .
J11B better electronic systems, SU30MKI also good, but the Indians are good at crashed aircraft, they have been a world champion.
read about this stuff before spouting cr@p from your mouth.

@ topic: is this question even necessary? a chinese copy of su27 vs an indian manufactured su30 fitted with the best goodies russia, india, israel and france has to offer
 
. .
Problems with the SU-30MKI: 2011 to 2014

July 20/14: Engines. Reports indicate that the IAF fleet’s problems aren’t limited to mission computers and displays (q.v. March 15/14). It also has a problem with engine failures in flight. Fortunately, as a 2-engine fighter, it can generally land on 1 engine, and the accident rate is low. The flip side is that this isn’t something you want to happen in a dogfight. Worse, every time this happens, the engine has to be taken out, tested, fixed, and put back. That takes a minimum of 4-5 days, which cuts readiness rates.

“The IAF has so far not arrived at a conclusion of its findings, but as a precautionary step, it has started servicing the engine after 700 hours instead of the mandated 1,000 hours of flying, adding to the non-availability of the aircraft…. The IAF had told Russians after studying each failure in detail that Sukhoi’s engines – AL-31FP produced by NPO Saturn of Russia – had been functioning inconsistently for the past two years (2012 and 2013). The number of single-engine landings by planes in two years is high and not healthy. It lowers the operational ability of the fleet, besides raising questions about war readiness, said sources.”

sources: Tribune News Service, “Su-30MKI engine failures worry IAF; Russia told to fix snag”.


June 16/14: Display fix. HAL chairman R K Tyagi discusses the issue of SU-30MKI display blanking and mission computer failure (q.v. March 15/14):

“The issue has been addressed by upgrading the software by the Russian side and replacing the mission computer and HUD wherever it was found unservicable during service checks [in India].” He further said that following the software upgrade and other service action taken, no problems concerning the Su-30 fighters has been reported from any IAF base.”

Sources: Defense World, “Software Upgrade Solves IAF Su-30MKI’s Display Problem”.



April 22/14: Waste. India’s Business Standard discusses HAL’s planned schedule, and explains some of the difficult aspects of their contract with Russia. Deliveries currently sit at 15 per year, but completion of the program will be late. Final delivery is now scheduled for 2019, instead of 2016-17.

The second issue is price, which began at $30 million but rose to $75 million each, even though most work is being done in a lower-cost country now. The key is the contract, which mandates that all raw materials must be sourced from Russia. Of the SU-30MKI’s roughly 43,000 components, there are 5,800 large metal plates, castings and forgings that must come from Russia. Another 7,146 bolts, screws, rivets, etc. have similar stipulations, and Russia also produces major assemblies like the radar and engines. Those plates, castings, and forgings are a source of considerable waste:

“For example, a 486 kg titanium bar supplied by Russia is whittled down to a 15.9 kg tail component. The titanium shaved off is wasted. Similarly a wing bracket that weighs just 3.1 kg has to be fashioned from a titanium forging that weighs 27 kg…. manufacturing sophisticated raw materials like titanium extrusions in India is not economically viable for the tiny quantities needed for Su-30MKI fighters.”
An assembly line that wasn’t state-owned wouldn’t be wasting all that left-over titanium.

Sources: India’s Business Standard, “Air Force likely to get entire Sukhoi-30MKI fleet by 2019″.


March 15/14: Readiness. India’s Sunday Guardian obtains letters and other documents sent by HAL to its Russian counterparts, pointing to serious maintenance problems with India’s SU-30MKI fleet. Compared with India’s older Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 fleets, whose readiness rates hover near 75%, fully 50% of the SU-30MKIs are considered unfit for operational flying. That’s a strategic-class issue for a country like India, and could provide the missing explanation for reports that India may abandon the joint FGFA/SU-50 5th generation fighter program in order to pay for French Rafale jets.

This isn’t the first time such issues have arisen (q.v. Dec 16/11), and the Russians have general reputation for these kinds of problems. One February 2014 letter from HAL’s Nasik plant reminds the Russians that they’ve been pursuing a critical issue since March 2013, with no reply:

“…multiple cases of repeated failure of Mission Computer-1 and blanking out of Head Up Displays (HUD) and all Multi-Function Displays (MFD) in flight… As the displays blanking off is a serious and critical issue affecting the exploitation of aircraft (it) needs corrective action/remedial measures on priority…”

From a Dec 24/13 letter:

“Due to non-availability of facilities for overhaul of aggregates [aircraft parts], the serviceability of Su-30MKI is slowly decreasing and demand for Aircraft on Ground (AOG) items on the rise…. Huge quantities of unserviceable aggregates [parts] are lying due for overhaul at various bases of IAF…. It appears that Rosboronexport and Irkut Corporation have limited control over other Russian companies [which provide vital parts like engines].”
One reason the MiG-29 fleet is doing better is that India has worked to build infrastructure like local RD-33 engine plants, bypassing the Russians entirely. Russian firms were supposed to set up a SU-30MKI repair-overhaul facility at HAL by December 2013, but that has fallen into a black hole, and so has the posting of aircraft specialists. India itself is often at fault in these scenarios, and indeed they’re reportedly haggling over price – but the specialist support contract reportedly states that they’re to be posted even if price negotiations aren’t finalized. India’s core defense posture demands that they resolve these issues, one way or another.

Sources: India’s Sunday Guardian, “Russians go slow, Sukhoi fleet in trouble”.


Dec 20/11: Cleared for flight. India’s fleet of SU-30MKIs resumes flying, after being informally grounded in the wake of the Pune crash. As for that crash, Daily Pioneer reports that:

“There was a problem in the fly-by-wire system… This is a new thing. Pilot did not get any warning. There were no indications in the cockpit and the aircraft was out of control,” the IAF chief told PTI here. He said the pilot “tried his best to control the aircraft for 15-20 minutes” before ejecting out along with the Weapon Systems Operator (WSO)…”

Dec 16/11: Readiness. The Hindustan Times reports that perennial problems with Russian spares & reliability have become an urgent issue for the SU-30MKI fleet now:

“Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected to red-flag [SU-30] serviceability, product support and pending upgrade… at the annual [Russian] summit meeting… Top government sources said that Air Headquarters has urgently requested the Prime Minister to raise the issue of engine serviceability with his Russian counterpart after few incidents of engine failures… the top brass has conveyed to government that “shaft bearing failures” have occurred in some [AL-31FP] engines. “In peacetime, the fighter can land on the other engine but this can be a life and death situation in adverse conditions, said a senior official.”
Dec 13-15/11:
An SU-30MKI crashes 25 minutes after takeoff, in the flying area of the Lohegaon IAF base, in Pune. Both pilots ejected safely. This is the IAF’s 3rd SU-30MKI crash; the 1st crash in 2009 was due to a fly-by-wire fault, and the 2nd also happened in 2009 when foreign matter was sucked into the plane’s engine.
In response, A Court of Inquiry (CoI) has been ordered to look into the reasons behind the crash. India also grounds its SU-30MKI fleet, pending maintenance inspections and some idea of what caused this crash.

Rediff | Economic Times of India | IBN Live | Indian Express | Hindustan Times



 
.
This is going to come down to pilot skill and training.
Difference between the aircraft, while the MKI has superior avonics despite what the Chinese fanboys say, nothing is certian as there is lack of transperancy as to what the J-11 has. What we do know is that the MKI was built from the very begining to be a air dominance fighter. The J-11 had incrimental upgrades from the Su-27 to eventually allow Chinese avonics. Are they supperior? We don't know and chances are they are modern they would still give the J-11 the same capability the MKI already has.
The major difference is the radar, mission computer, tvc and canards.
The IAF wanted an multirole, swing role aircraft, unlike the PLAAF that excepted Su-27s and slowly built up multirole capability in limited role for the J-11. Remember the PLAAF also purchased Su-30MKK as a bomber/fighter- same thing the MKI does but better some ways in terms of precision. Big difference being the mission computer that allows the MKI to change tactics while in the air.
The canards are there not to look spangly or increase maneuverability! This is important, why does the MKI have canards? Well its because the Bars radar is heavier than the basic radar in the J-11, Su-30MKK. The canards make sure the nose doesnt drop during flight, they actually have no value in terms of maneuverability! Only the TVC engines do!
Why did the Indians want TVC on the MKI? This is because after playing around with the Su-30MK they realised the Flanker doesn't do dog fights very well despite the hype! The flanker is big and heavy! heavier when its fully loaded! The Falcrum kicked the Flankers arse in dogfights and so did the Mirage! TVC was to reduce this shortcoming.

PILOT diference is important. Even though Indians have had crashes, this only proves, that they actually fly their machines, a lot more than the Chinese or even Russians. PLAAF doesn't disclose crashes unless its too difficulte to hide which is in contrast to India, where it gets reported since its tax payer money. The PLAAF pilots didn't get very good flying hours until recently and that too with strings.
The Indian MKI pilots mission is also different, while the J-11 flys usually on land and close the shore, MKIs get all duties, and get sent to port blair. They have already been to alaska, they operate as swing role with full load under taking any mission, while the pLAAF concentrates or area denial tactics. The Indian pilot is offense, while the Chinese need to send escorts for the J-11 during ground attack operations. Payload is different and so is the level of professionalism. Recent barrel loop over a P8 proved this!
Good pilots don't do stupid stunts. You wanna scare off a P8, than lock on to it. Follow it, don't create ur own protocol. This lack of safety understanding comes from the PLAAFs lack of cross training with other airforces. Don't do barrel roles over a bigger aircraft!

The only advantage the J-11 has over the MKI is nigh.... Payload perhaps... The MKI is heavier for obvious reasons while the J-11 retains the orginal weight to the extent it can. Also the MKI is twin seat, also helps greatly with swing role capability.
 
.
j-11BS

Su 30MKi is over rated by indians,

and cost is very low 35-37 Million per aircraft.
the cost is low does not mean its a bad aircraft. the cost is low due to the relatively lower labour cost in india and the lower cost of materials bad economy of russia. had a similar fighter been produced say, in u.s or france its cost would have been at least 75mn$ per ac.
 
.
Sukhoi 30 mki will prevail if two fighters go head on. Better arnament & EW suit will make the difference.
 
.
J-11B VS su-30MKI comparision should be made in avionics.... And not in the weight. Su-30MKI is the best jet fighter in asia due to what it uses inside it. Su-30MKI can kill any jet fighter of asia. Although i doubt it can take on F-22 and Eurofighter typhoon because their avionics bit ahead then su-30MKI.... About vietnaam su-30 was just a jet fighter with no capability. If vietnaam were using Su-30MKI then chinese jet fighter would have been dead.... India even threaten chinese navy ship and warned that next time they try to mess in indian ocean than su-30MKI would jam their ship totaly. This shows what Su-30MKI using. India should thank europe for it.... Our next step should be to upgrade vietnaam jetfighters with latest avionics. Todays war mostly depends on avionics. Su-30 is a great jetfighter but without good avionics its just a normal jetfighter....


If SU-30MKI is the most advanced a/c in asia, then why India is craving for Rafale? :lol:

That Rafale buying consideration is already a solid indication that IAF realize their SU-30MKI may not be able to handle J-10B or J-11B.

Case closed.
 
.
If SU-30MKI is the most advanced a/c in asia, then why India is craving for Rafale? :lol:

That Rafale buying consideration is already a solid indication that IAF realize their SU-30MKI may not be able to handle J-10B or J-11B.

Case closed.

Another novice i see.
Main reason rafale is being inducted is
1.Squadron strength rapidly falling.
2.IAF needs low level penetration ground strike aircraft with mig-27 being phased out.MKI is unsuited for this role as BARS radar is not designed for low level ground mapping.Moreover MKI has large RCS and is more vulnerable to enemy SAMs than rafale.
3.Finally rafale would have greater service rate than MKI.Also spectra EW is most advanced EW suite after raptor/f-35.
And the meteor BVR missile is set to be the best BVR in the world which would totally outrange and outclass both chinese and pak bvrs.

As for current arsenal of PAF and PLAAF su-30mki can easily take on anything less than 5th gen with a good chance of success.
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom