J-11B vs Su-30MKI

[The enlightened]

how can indians say J11 is a copy while their SU30IZV is russian fighter assembled in india thats it 2. india cant even do the reverse engineering india is best in software not in hardware like china.china applaused for their achievement of devolping such a high tech weapon system on their own.TODAY 3. INDIA SAYS J11 IS A COPY OF SU27 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE ONE TOMORROW THEY WILL SAY JF17 IS A COPY OF FA-18 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT AND THE DAY AFTER THEY WILL SAY J20 IS A COPY OF F35 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT.WHAT ABOUT 4. RUSSIA THEN IT COPIED MIG35 FROM F15.THIS IS SO STUPID AND I BET ALL ARE CHILDREN HERE

1.firstly its not su 30izv its mki
2.india might be able to reverse engineer things too
but the things is that some people still have ;what we like to call 'self respect'
3.are you physically and mentally handicapped; j-11 is a complete copy of su27;and indians aren't the only one that say it; anybody with a pair of eyes and little education[kindergardeners too]
will say that j 11 is a copy
4. now what was that
'mig 35 a copy of f-15'
i think i have wasted enough time on you

i’ll try being nicer if you try being smarter

 

[Secur]

2.india might be able to reverse engineer things too
but the things is that some people still have ;what we like to call 'self respect'

Your people very much wish to reverse engineer but the sad fact is that they are unable to ...

Beg, borrow or steal: IAF chief's advice to defence scientists - Times Of India
NEW DELHI: "Beg, borrow or steal", was the advice the Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Norman Anil Kumar Browne, had for defence scientists Wednesday for developing critical technologies for the armed forces.

 

[khanz4996]

1.firstly its not su 30izv its mki
2.india might be able to reverse engineer things too
but the things is that some people still have ;what we like to call 'self respect'
3.are you physically and mentally handicapped; j-11 is a complete copy of su27;and indians aren't the only one that say it; anybody with a pair of eyes and little education[kindergardeners too]
will say that j 11 is a copy
4. now what was that
'mig 35 a copy of f-15'
i think i have wasted enough time on you

i’ll try being nicer if you try being smarter

1st u r trying to make TEJAS from 1982 in 30 years u could not make it operational that can give u alot of self respect
2nd AS U SAID INDIA MIGHT BE ABLE TO(FUTURE TENSE) REVERSE ENGINEER BUT IS NOT ABLE TO BECAUSE IT NEEDS BRAINS AND STATE OF THE FACILITIES WHICH INDIA LACKS
3RD IF I AM PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY HANDICAPPED THEN U ARE POSTING FROM A MENTAL HOSPITAL LOL
4TH CHECK OUT MIG35 AND F15 STRIKE EAGLE PICTURES AND CHECK OUT THE SIMILARITY IN DESIGN AND LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME AND IF U CANT SPOT IT THEN YOU SHOULD GO TO A NICE OPTICIAN TO CHECK UR EYESIGHT IT SHOULD BE LOW(NOT MIGHT BE LOW

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

 

[The enlightened]

Your people very much wish to reverse engineer but the sad fact is that they are unable to ...

Beg, borrow or steal: IAF chief's advice to defence scientists - Times Of India
NEW DELHI: "Beg, borrow or steal", was the advice the Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Norman Anil Kumar Browne, had for defence scientists Wednesday for developing critical technologies for the armed forces.

anyone with little knowledge of english will know that
he used it as a metaphor

 

[Secur]

anyone with little knowledge of english will know that
he used it as a metaphor

Well he was showing "desperation" at the DRDO lack of delivering things ...

 

[punisher]

LOl

@ Indians why to argue with m....s let them believe what ever they want. I bet even if we bring 5gen JET they will start countering with JF-17 + AWACS.

@Chinese and Pakistani's yeah guys OUR Mig-29, Mirage2k5, su-30mki MKI, Rafale/Typhoon, even FGFA... are inferior to JF-17, F-16blk 15 and 52, J-10B and J-11B. any thing else guys. Is your ego's satisfied.

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

Well he was showing "desperation" at the DRDO lack of delivering things ...

Atleast they are trying. Whats your problem. It's our internal matters, Look at your own.

I guess you have lot of insecure feeling.

 

[Secur]

Atleast they are trying. Whats your problem. It's our internal matters, Look at your own.

I guess you have lot of insecure feeling.

Why would i feel insecure ? ... I was just replying to a problematic post by another poster ... Internal matter ? I thought we were here to discuss right ?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Well, Once PN gets this J11-B, then we will compare it with MKi over arabian sea or Indian ocean

 

[Secur]

LOl

@ Indians why to argue with m....s let them believe what ever they want. I bet even if we bring 5gen JET they will start countering with JF-17 + AWACS.

@Chinese and Pakistani's yeah guys OUR Mig-29, Mirage2k5, su-30mki MKI, Rafale/Typhoon, even FGFA... are inferior to JF-17, F-16blk 15 and 52, J-10B and J-11B. any thing else guys. Is your ego's satisfied

Atleast they are trying. Whats your problem. It's our internal matters, Look at your own.

I guess you have lot of insecure feeling.

What sort of post was that ? We were discussing J11B vs Su30 MKI right ?
What would someone even reply to this post ? As for the hatred , its reciprocal still i try to post unbiased views ... Check my post in Indian defense section

 

[Jon Snow]

Both AL-31F and AL-31FP produce same amount of thrust.
Only advantage is that AL-31FP has thrust vectoring.

they may have the same thrust but the al 31f was introduced in 1981 while the al 31fp was introduced in 2000 - there may very well be improvements in life cycle costs , flying hours etc.

There are other factors in J-11B's favour though, for example, lower weight, coupled with supposedly higher thrust of WS-10A would give the J-11B a higher T/W ratio. J-11B is said to have higher top speed and service ceiling than MKI.

Also, since the J-11B and the MKI have nearly the same airframe, but the MKI is much heavier, the J-11B would have lighter wing loading - normally this would give the J-11B an advantage in climb rate, turning performance, but like you said the MKI has canards and thrust vectoring so who knows? It would be interesting to see how all these various factors come into play to affect overall performance.

according to all specs I could find the climb rate of both is nearly the same (300m/s) as is the thrust to weight ratio -1.1.(though according to wiki t/w of j-11 is slightly lower at 1.04)
wing loading of the j-11b is indeed slightly lower - 371kg/m2 as compared to the 401kg/m2 of MKI - doesnt seem enough of an davantage to equal TVC and canards

The J-11B doesn't have the NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE radar.
It has a indigenous chinese radar with a search range supposedly >150km

links??? Wiki says its NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE to be replaced by a chinese AESA - if they are going to replace it with AESA it would be a waste of money first to replace the N001VE with chinese PESA and then again by AESA.

If the story about the J-10 and the Vietnamese Su-30's are true, then I should think they should be very decent.

I really doubt that story - it would have been an international incident - anyways I am not doubting the capabilities of chinese avionics. all I am saying is that it is unlikely (but possible I'll admit) that they are better than Israeli anf French(who are known for their EWS and avionics)

I don't think that the RCS reduction is as significant as some people think.
I saw somewhere on another forum some chinese guy posted a video capture of J-11B with some Chinese writing and they said that the writing indicated that the RCS was 4m2.

Agreed

 

[ViXuyen]

Why do people still believing in the J-10 vs Vietnam's Su30 incident? Take this fact, Vietnam's Su30 is based solely in the South along with Su27, none of the Flankers is in the north of Viet Nam

 

[SomeGuy]

according to all specs I could find the climb rate of both is nearly the same (300m/s) as is the thrust to weight ratio -1.1.(though according to wiki t/w of j-11 is slightly lower at 1.04)
wing loading of the j-11b is indeed slightly lower - 371kg/m2 as compared to the 401kg/m2 of MKI - doesnt seem enough of an davantage to equal TVC and canards

Those figures are for the J-11A.
The J-11B manages to cut about 700kg of weight and uses increased thrust WS-10A engines, which should give a T/W ratio of about 1.17. Also, someone at Wiki hasn't checked their math - T/W for MKI is (2 x 27,600 lbf) / 54,895 lb loaded weight = 1.01

links??? Wiki says its NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE to be replaced by a chinese AESA - if they are going to replace it with AESA it would be a waste of money first to replace the N001VE with chinese PESA and then again by AESA.

The N001VE is for J-11A.
J-11B has a different radar, according to this article:

A PLAAF J-11B was landing carrying PL-8 and PL-12 AAMs underneath its wings. This demonstrates Chinese's effort to integrate their own weapon systems into a classic Russian design in order to further boost its combat capability and survivability. Their effort includes a Chinese multifunction PD radar (Type 1474? search >150km, track 6-8, engage 4 simultaneously) and 1553B databus compatible with PL-8, PL-12, and the newest PL-15 AAM, a Chinese made IRST/LR, as well as a redesigned glass cockpit featuring 5 MFDs and a new wide-angle holographic HUD. The aircraft also has a new UV band missile approach warning system (MAWS). Two sensors are installed on both sides of the tail sting to provide coverage for the rear hemisphere. Its weight has been reduced by 700kg by using composite materials at various places. In addition, RAM coating was speculated to have been applied in certain areas such as engine intakes to reduce RCS but this has not been confirmed. The AL-31F engine has been replaced by the indigenous WS-10. One WS-10 (Taihang 13,200kg class) turbofan was successfully tested on a CFTE J-11WS engine testbed in June 2002. The first J-11B prototype powered by WS-10 flew in 2004. At least 3 prototypes are being tested at CFTE (#523, 524, 525), each has different configurations to test individual subsystems in order to speed up the development. The first batch of J-11B entered the service with PLAAF 1st Division (S/N 10x2x) in late 2007. However the initial batch of J-11Bs powered by the indigenous WS-10 turbofans were quickly grounded due to the poor quality of the engine. Subsequent batches were forced to be powered by Russian AL-31F turbofans until WS-10's reliability problem was solved. Recent images (December 2009) suggested that the engine quality problem has been solved and the aircraft (02 batch?) has started to fly with WS-10s installed. Currently more J-11Bs are entering the service with PLAAF (S/N 31x0x), powered by WS-10 engines. It was rumored that PLAN started to receive land-based J-11Bs (as J-11BH?) in spring 2010, wearing a light gray camouflage (S/N 81x8x).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Why do people still believing in the J-10 vs Vietnam's Su30 incident? Take this fact, Vietnam's Su30 is based solely in the South along with Su27, none of the Flankers is in the north of Viet Nam

The J-10 does have the air refueling capability, it can cover the southern tip of the South China Sea without any problem.

 

[ViXuyen]

The J-10 does have the air refueling capability, it can cover the southern tip of the South China Sea without any problem.

did not your media mention that the incident happened in the North of Viet Nam? Now you change the story knowing that no Flanker of Viet Nam ever based in the North?