J-10C for PAF - Hypothetical Scenario

[Kabotar]

My guess is that it has Link 17 so it would be able to guide PL15. If it doesn't have Link 17 why would PAF add more Erieye if it can't communicate with it's backbone fighter?

no he is talking about guiding PL-15 through erieye, which is not possible

 

[StormBreaker]

Don't think so, CM-302AKG uses GPS waypoints, and then turns to IR/TV. You program coordinates, and can target land targets.

302AKG .
Either DCS is producing hybrids or you are confused buddy

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well it should be bought in my opinion, 200km could be good for attacking Indian targets. And precision is like 5-6 meters because IR/TV guidance.

PAF knows better why they don't buyC-802AKG but i assume that we have better Land attack cruise missiles than C-802AKG like RAAD-1/2 Babar

 

[Philip the Arab]

PAF knows better why they don't buyC-802AKG but i assume that we have better Land attack cruise missiles than C-802AKG like RAAD-1/2 Babar

They can't be integrated on JF-17 though, hence this is the best option that can be done fairly quickly.

302AKG .
Either DCS is producing hybrids or you are confused buddy

Wrong key, my bad. I meant 802AKG, here is the brouchure where it says it can hit land targets.

 

[Ultima Thule]

My guess is that it has Link 17 so it would be able to guide PL15. If it doesn't have Link 17 why would PAF add more Erieye if it can't communicate with it's backbone fighter?

No communication to JF-17 is other thing but guiding PL-15 is other thing, PL-15 uses different protocol/software for guiding like our AMRAAM have

 

[Beast]

J-10C is a good plane, also PL-15 capable, sanctions free, but it has crashed many times, TVC is not enough and the money is meant to be spend on project AZM.
And we don't need to reinvent the Wheel again.....

Another J-10 hater talk bad without substantial evidence.

We often hear about PAF’s inability to procure advanced jets and the J-10 generally comes up for discussion in this context. Members have argued that the J-10 isn’t drastically different from the JF-17 and that it wouldn’t offer any major improvements over the JF-17.

The J-10C is now cleared for export. In this context, if PAF was able to mate the Turkish F-16 upgrade Özgür program into the J-10C along with upcoming Turkish BVR/WVR SOM cruise missiles and South African missiles, will this not offer significant advantages over the JF-17 and become credible replacement for the mirages and F-7 since the JF-17 can’t replace them all. With J-10, JF-17, F-16 and AZM project, PAF would still only operate 4 unique fighter planes which is well within the current trends.

arguments and counterargument welcome

J-10C is sold will never be allowed to be touch by Turkish. We do not want Inferior Turkish avionics and weapon to mate with it and downgrade it's ability.

 

[Ultima Thule]

They can't be integrated on JF-17 though, hence this is the best option that can be done fairly quickly.

But we have better CMs than C-802AKG whether its not integrated to JF-17 its doesn't matter, andour JF-17 is more oriented toward air defense of the country and our main strike plate form are our Mirages

 

[StormBreaker]

They can't be integrated on JF-17 though, hence this is the best option that can be done fairly quickly.


Wrong key, my bad. I meant 802AKG, here is the brouchure where it says it can hit land targets.

BTW, it is called C-802.

Yes, i think they can be used As LACM as well. But, question is, are they having good warhead ?

Now that you have mentioned, i remember, isn’t HARB(HARBA?) based on this @Bilal Khan (Quwa) ? Or is it based on CM-302 ?

 

[Ultima Thule]

BTW, it is called C-802.

Yes, i think they can be used As LACM as well. But, question is, are they having good warhead ?

Now that you have mentioned, i remember, isn’t HARB(HARBA?) based on this @Bilal Khan (Quwa) ? Or is it based on CM-302 ?

Secondary mission of C-802 is always ground attack capability
as for HARBA is based on Babar not CM-302

 

[messiach]

Make your guess.

From reading @messiach comments on JF-17 thread I got the feeling that PAF might be interested in J35 but that jet is FAR AWAY from becoming a real consideration even it's engine WS19 is suppose to complete development in 2025 and these projects rarely meet deadlines. But a year or so back there was a Washington Post(I think) article which claimed that Pak & China are working on a new SEZ where next gen aircraft will be built now that could be pure gibberish or there might be some truth in that as PAF chief said that they also intend to make engines for NGF which realistically is Chinese OEM setting up production facility in Pakistan, it is unlikely that Pakistan will get another Russian engine Su57 will most likely go to India which means Pakistan will not have access to that engine, Mikoyan is developing a medium weight 5th gen fighter with UAE which will directly compete with NGF on paper, Turks are just starting out that to with RR so there might be restriction on that as well, so that leaves Chinese option only.

As much as I like J10 I don't see what it will bring in addition to JF17 other than range and additional payload but our enemy is right next door, 10 to 15 min flight from forward base and you will cross IB what we need is a longer legged SOW such as Raptor 3 or RAAD "lite". This money could be used to deck out or increase production on blk3.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

 

[StormBreaker]

Make your guess.

J-35 could as well be JF-35 !!!
This will be golden opportunity for PAC to get hands on experience on 5th gen development and in turn assist AZM. But, the equation doesn’t seem to fit the criteria i put on earlier.
J-35 allegedly would be a dual engine, but so will be AZM, why would PAF even think of inducting 2 different dual engine 5th Gen fighters, unless AZM will be a single engine, then my guess above can be somewhat close.

 

[messiach]

You need a v comprehensive background in aeronautics. Radical changes are not warranted in block upgrade. BLOCK UPGRADE means you take a block and upgrade it.

J-35 could as well be JF-35 !!!
This will be golden opportunity for PAC to get hands on experience on 5th gen development and in turn assist AZM. But, the equation doesn’t seem to fit the criteria i put on earlier.
J-35 allegedly would be a dual engine, but so will be AZM, why would PAF even think of inducting 2 different dual engine 5th Gen fighters, unless AZM will be a single engine, then my guess above can be somewhat close.

 

[StormBreaker]

You need a v comprehensive background in aeronautics. Radical changes are not warranted in block upgrade. BLOCK UPGRADE means you take a block and upgrade it.

I didn’t mention any block. JF-35 here means a totally separate machine, not an evolution of thunder. That is impossible, better to design a new one from the concepts of LOW RCS and stealth principles instead of using a design meant to be a 4th Gen

 

[Kabotar]

Maybe J35 and AZM are the same thing?

You need a v comprehensive background in aeronautics. Radical changes are not warranted in block upgrade. BLOCK UPGRADE means you take a block and upgrade it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, i think people are underestimating JF17 thunder. I don't know how good DCS is to evaluate a jet but i have been watching alot of youtubed videos of DCS and the gurus there seemed amazed with the performance of JF17 with SD10 and very high maneuverability.

I doubt that any other jet, even J10 can fulfill the needs of PAF the way Jf17 is getting it done.
so fifth gen should be the next logical step.

Hi,

Do you have any clue about war---?

Do you have any clue about how wars are fought---?

Do you have any clue what the wars are fought with---?

Do you have any clue when you have to get the weapons to fight the wars---?

Do you have any understanding of the time factor in understanding and learning how to use & operate the weapons---?

There are so many other Do Yous---if you may answer for some---I will bring out the other ones---.

VLRAAM is not the name of Chinese project.
It is a category of missiles. The RAMJET project, now termed PL-XX and earlier the PL-21 prototype, both are RAMJET separate projects. I don’t know about this dual pulse project you are talking about as PL-15 is the only known Dual Pulse motor BVR currently with PLAAF. Even PL-15 was earlier considered with a RAMJET motor but the miniaturization problem got in the way.

Not to forget, China will come out with its Ramjet, sooner or later. Determination and funding leads to end goals.


It’s like you are sending in your pilot and a valuable aircraft on a suicide mission with loadout compared to that of a bike instead of sending in JH-7/SU-34 which are comparable to trucks.

JF-17 can perform basic/intermediate ground roles but deep strike is not one of them. Its range, loadout restricts it. Not to blame, it is just a Light Fighter, not a heavy strike platform.

For such purpose, either we have options of Chinese flankers, JH-7s or Mirages (one way mission)

Hi,

In other words what you are saying is---that the very one LUCKY chance that you get to enter the enemy territory and be in a striking position---you would rather have a Truck Load than a Bicycle load---.

What the bicycle load strike will do is make the enemy mad and more and use more of his resources---but the Truck load strike would put the enemy in a massive panic and create uncertainty---.

War is also about creating panic and uncertainty---.