J-10 Will Come With T O (P) T

[DESERT FIGHTER]

mastan we are not so slow or not used to absorb technology for example take super mushak?jf17?agosta90b?alkhalid,saad alqaswa apc and logistic vehicles etc.
Reguarding our effectiveness yes you are right we didnt have tht capacity till now.When we are making indigenous drones and are very well to absorb technology like jets or submarines.
Free KAASHMIR

 

[illuminatus]

Back to the basics:

Technology transfer is the process of sharing of skills, knowledge, technologies, methods of manufacturing, samples of manufacturing and facilities among governments and other institutions to ensure that scientific and technological developments are accessible to a wider range of users who can then further develop and exploit the technology into new products, processes, applications, materials or services. It is closely related to (and may arguably be considered a subset of) Knowledge transfer. Related terms, used almost synonymously, include "technology valorisation" and "technology commercialisation".

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_transfer

To put it short, as long as any kind of tech can be put to good use we can consider such a transfer meaningful. Not very hard to understand in my opinion.

 

[TexasJohn]

Agreed. Could you spell it out for this particular project?

 

[illuminatus]

Agreed. Could you spell it out for this particular project?

No, neither can I or anyone else at this moment. The specifics aren't mentioned and it would be too premature to conclude anything beforehand. Let's first wait for the official word and an authentic source.

PS. I wouldn't be surprised if some level of tech transfer was to happen. That's my personal hunch. Much also depends on whether these aircraft are delivered with Russian and/or Chinese engine.

 

[MastanKhan]

mastan we are not so slow or not used to absorb technology for example take super mushak?jf17?agosta90b?alkhalid,saad alqaswa apc and logistic vehicles etc.
Reguarding our effectiveness yes you are right we didnt have tht capacity till now.When we are making indigenous drones and are very well to absorb technology like jets or submarines.
Free KAASHMIR

Sir,

Not to be disrespectful---I don't think you understand the term TOT.

What is the center of the human body---the heart---what is the center of a machinery---the powerplant---that is what technology is---other than that, the rest of it is just basic stuff that any good organization with a sane head on its shoulders should be able to do.

What was the TOT on agosta---hardly anything but welding the parts together---where has that lead us---any other augustas---now it is good to know that---but the way this word TOT is posed on pakistani forums is that we get the abilitiy to build this thing from scratch---which is far from the truth.

Correct me if I am wrong---pakistan doesnot even have the ability and capacity to make a bicycle chain of its own----the central part to the most basic of transportations in the country.

Copying some of the items is not TOT.

 

[monitor]

if tot means to asseble the aiircraft in pakistani soil using pakistani national and infrastructure building for this tusk i think it will be another good step for pakistan airforce after manufacturing jf-17.by this infrastructure if pakistan can
upgrade this plane with western avoinics and other related euipment thats will be very cleaver move. i would be very happy to see pakistan producing some avoinics parts with turkies help and western euipment under licencse both for jf-17 and j-10b(FC-20). thanks

 

[conworldus]

I'm trying to understand what exactly is being tranferred. The engine is Russian - no TOT there, most of the avionics are to be European origin, with some Chinese ( no TOT there either). Perhaps assembly line manufacture of airframe perhaps?

The WS-10A engine is poised to replace the Russian ones this year. The avionics on J-10 are not European origin. Europe still has an arms embargo against China and flight avionics cannot be exported. China has developed very capable avionics, AESA radar, AA missiles, etc. Also the J-10 airframe has undergone a lot of change since its prototype J-9. Incorporated include shapes of F-16 and Lavi, and the integration was a technological marvel. The aerodynamics of this incredible machine is one of best in the world. There is a lot of technology in J-10.

P.S the AESA radar has not been installed but already developed. Pakistan may wish to use European avionics on the exported version, though. They are better, but not by a lot.

 

[SBD-3]

J-10 TOT for local production.

I must say that is very generous of china.

Not even the US offers such deals for its f-16 for such small orders.

Although i can see How this is a huge advantage to Pakistan.

What is China getting out of this transaction ?

Fighter jet technology isn't generally put in the charity box.
SO i am assuming China is getting something from Pakistan so what is it.

Well saab offered a more comprehesive offer to brazil for just 36 Planes with co-development, local manufacturing, 70% airframe and complete parts, engine overhaul and rebuil facilities and partnership in future developments of grippen NG, help in joint production of local cargo aircraft, sales and marketing lead in South Amercia. and all this for just 36 Aircrafts. So as far as you know how to play cards good, getting such a promising deal is not a problem and one more thing PAF had an eventual requirement of 100 Falcons out of which 18 realized so rest I think will be realized from FC-20 so don't think PAF would stop at 36, it has the potential to go beyond. Another thing, PAF can get China access to Arab and Muslimcountries like KSA,IRAN,UAE and others so in long term I think its a Win Win situation for both of the countries

 

[Canaan]

Well saab offered a more comprehesive offer to brazil for just 36 Planes with co-development, local manufacturing, 70% airframe and complete parts, engine overhaul and rebuil facilities and partnership in future developments of grippen NG, help in joint production of local cargo aircraft, sales and marketing lead in South Amercia. and all this for just 36 Aircrafts. So as far as you know how to play cards good, getting such a promising deal is not a problem and one more thing PAF had an eventual requirement of 100 Falcons out of which 18 realized so rest I think will be realized from FC-20 so don't think PAF would stop at 36, it has the potential to go beyond. Another thing, PAF can get China access to Arab and Muslimcountries like KSA,IRAN,UAE and others so in long term I think its a Win Win situation for both of the countries

damn you beat me to it !
I was just about to say did you guys forget about SAAB's offer to Brazil!

 

[Mercenary]

Stop Worrying about 230-280 SU30MKI

PAF will have 36 J10 & 50+ F16/52 by 2015 TO BLOW them away

What about the Indian MRCA where they are acquiring 126 Combat Fighters.

They will pose a mortal threat to Pakistan.

How do we deal with that?

 

[illuminatus]

What about the Indian MRCA where they are acquiring 126 Combat Fighters.

They will pose a mortal threat to Pakistan.

How do we deal with that?

One thing that we will have to accept is that numerically PAF cannot match IAF. Basically, the qualitative edge that PAF once held over IAF has also come to an end. Western/US countries are queuing up to sell their most advanced fighters to the IAF in order to get a piece of the pie so to speak. The Indians have the cash to purchase top notch where as cash starved Pakistan has to settle for loans. To be short, the current economic and political situation heavily favours India. This is the dire reality. Realistically, this reality is also most likely not going to change in the foreseeable future.

Fortunately, the good news is that PAF has realized this a long time ago and adjusted their doctrine accordingly. Having a sizeable and qualitative air force along with a credible minimum deterrence is the key to success.

 

[conworldus]

One thing that we will have to accept is that numerically PAF cannot match IAF. Basically, the qualitative edge that PAF once held over IAF has also come to an end. Western/US countries are queuing up to sell their most advanced fighters to the IAF in order to get a piece of the pie so to speak. The Indians have the cash to purchase top notch where as cash starved Pakistan has to settle for loans. This is the dire reality.

Fortunately, the good news is that PAF has realized this a long time ago and adjusted their doctrine accordingly. Having a sizeable and qualitative air force along with a credible minimum deterrence is the key to success.

Exactly. Remember that India is a bigger country with more money (though buying these many jets is a bit over extend), so Pakistan should not look at a quantity contest. Pakistan will have enough defense to stop an Indian attack, which will be more than enough. India won't try to overwhelm Pakistan because Pakistan has nuclear weapon.

My prediction is that India is due to fall apart in a few decades anyway because of over population. Without any effective population control method, they will have huge unskilled and uneducated population and not enough food to feed them. This will help their GDP but will also drain their resources at a much higher rate.

 

[illuminatus]

Exactly. Remember that India is a bigger country with more money (though buying these many jets is a bit over extend), so Pakistan should not look at a quantity contest. Pakistan will have enough defense to stop an Indian attack, which will be more than enough. India won't try to overwhelm Pakistan because Pakistan has nuclear weapon.

My prediction is that India is due to fall apart in a few decades anyway because of over population. Without any effective population control method, they will have huge unskilled and uneducated population and not enough food to feed them. This will help their GDP but will also drain their resources at a much higher rate.

That's the whole point. Pakistan cannot and should not indulge in a quantity race. There is frankly no need for over stretching beyond means. Fortunately, Pakistan has the necessary deterrence at disposal which is enough to impede any external hostility. Although, it's essential to rely on a fully fledged air force unit, it only forms one part of the total defence system.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Brothers im sure about FC 20 coming with TOT i hope u guys saw Defence ministers interview in KAMRA after inaguaration of JF17 he said that we will be inducting FC 20 and talks are under ways and they(chinese)have no issues with giving us TOT of FC 20 and so talks are underway...........So doest it clearly indicated TOT issue?

 

[TexasJohn]

The WS-10A engine is poised to replace the Russian ones this year. The avionics on J-10 are not European origin. Europe still has an arms embargo against China and flight avionics cannot be exported. China has developed very capable avionics, AESA radar, AA missiles, etc. Also the J-10 airframe has undergone a lot of change since its prototype J-9. Incorporated include shapes of F-16 and Lavi, and the integration was a technological marvel. The aerodynamics of this incredible machine is one of best in the world. There is a lot of technology in J-10.

P.S the AESA radar has not been installed but already developed. Pakistan may wish to use European avionics on the exported version, though. They are better, but not by a lot.

Whish AESA radar does China have? this is news to me. The Russians are only now bring one on line. Did you mean PESA?