Italian Marines Going Home For X-MAS

[Ajaxpaul]

The religious reasons u can understand if u read this thread from the start ... About Rome connection with priests of Kerala church along with priest trying to influence a CHristian minister in Kerala as well giving clean chit to Marines apart from that the out of court Blood money payment... & the fact the Judgement was passed by Two christian Judges
... is enough for more suspicions ...

As rockstar said, The court asked the central govt who was ok with it.....If the Italian lady has let them go, the only thing we can do is vote them out.

If you think Christians were hell bent on saving the marines, then i pity you....I can even say Pak claim on kashmir is legit as the majority muslims wanted to be with Pak. They want to be with Pak, the majority wants to be with pak, the majority muslims want to be with pak.....so what say ? Shall we give them kashmir...let Pak take kashmir.

 

[zaxcolix]

...Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Judges are guided by the govt. to act in a certain way........the famed independence of the judiciary is a myth.

There are no loop holes .....but there appear to be deliberate mishandling of the case to favor the Italians rather than the Indians.

Problem lies with the govt. of the day. IPC is a convenient scapegoat which the govt. is certain to use as a cover.

 

[rockstarIN]

Again, it is common to call for any objections but the High court judges are not bound by any objection raised.

Actually they were out on bail, they wanted the restriction of not going out from India to be exceptional for this season. Since there were cases even in Supreme court by Italy for saving these guys, the court should have given a different order IMO.

What will happen if they do not return? nothing but only 6 crores. Can we jail somebody from Italian consulate? no..

AND the Eurofighter is out of the competition...so there were no commercial interests too by Italy to bring them back.

 

[jaunty]

They are not coming back.

 

[zaxcolix]

Conditions for bail are standard. What conditions they are is left to the judge. I was responding to the argument that section 307 was a non bailable offense & that bail could not be granted. Pointed out that no restriction existed for high court judges. Hence bail was correctly(legally) granted & no violation of law took place (in granting bail).

Section 497 guides the admission of bail in non-bailable cases and is subject to conditions such as the circumstances of the case and Public Interest. Here the Govt. of Kerala who has filed the case objected to the Bail appeal and gave e.g. of french nationls who escaped, but the court went further and asked the central govt. who gave No Objection, proving this case is very much Political in nature and not so much as judicial.

 

[Nair saab]

As rockstar said, The court asked the central govt who was ok with it.....If the Italian lady has let them go, the only thing we can do is vote them out.

If you think Christians were hell bent on saving the marines, then i pity you....I can even say Pak claim on kashmir is legit as the majority muslims wanted to be with Pak. They want to be with Pak, the majority wants to be with pak, the majority muslims want to be with pak.....so what say ? Shall we give them kashmir...let Pak take kashmir.

WHeres the COmparison between Kashmir & Marines related ... if Muslims of Kashmir wants to go with Pak they r free to do so... But the Land with remain with India...

Ya the if not the Christians but atleast the Christian Authoritiarians Like Priest , Christian Politicians & Community leaders r Hell bend on Freeing the Marines inorder to show there Loyality towards Rome ... looking at there attitude i dont even care now ... if the Family has sold the Dignity of the Dead for the sake of few Bucks... who am i to provide him justice ...

 

[Bang Galore]

Section 497 guides the admission of bail in non-bailable cases and is subject to conditions such as the circumstances of the case and Public Interest. Here the Govt. of Kerala who has filed the case objected to the Bail appeal and gave e.g. of french nationls who escaped, but the court went further and asked the central govt. who gave No Objection, proving this case is very much Political in nature and not so much as judicial.

Section 498 is what judges go by. Gives them unlimited discretion. Enough decisions on that score in many cases.

Anyways your argument is not without merit. Only the honourable judge can know his reasons.

 

[zaxcolix]

Section 498 is what judges go by. Gives them unlimited discretion. Enough decisions on that score in many cases.

Anyways your argument is not without merit. Only the honourable judge can know his reasons.

..even under section 498 public interest is taken into account. The very fact that the court consulted the central Govt. for their opinion proves this.

Court decision was based on feedback from the GoI.

 

[Nair saab]

..even under section 498 public interest is taken into account. The very fact that the court consulted the central Govt. for their opinion proves this.

Court decision was based on feedback from the GoI.

Are Chod yaar ... Inhe nahi Padi haii to hume kya ... yaha jo bhi is Decision ko defend kar rahe haii sare ke sare Isaai haii... Inko apne Italian Bhaioo pe bada bhrosa haii khete haii 10 jan ko wapas ayenge ... dekhna 10 tariq ke baad mooh chupate phirenge ...

 

[KS]

Not to forget that Catholic church here played a crucial role for the poor Family of fisherman to get a compensation of 10,000,000 rupees.

For us its all about nationalism...for the families it is about survival without the only income-earning member of their family

Its not only about empty nationalism. It's about how the life of an Indian is treated. If we aim to become a bigger power, it cannot be done without placing the lives of the Indian as the priority. This is THE only thing I like Israel for. For them,the life of an Israeli is of the first and foremost importance. The rest can wait. That is why they are such a sucessful country. For one I was happy that India has not capitulated to the western threats and was firm in its stand, but alas that was not to be so.

Ok, the Catholic church secured some funds..but are you denying they played no role in the release of the under-trials ? Is it not pre-empting the judicial process ? I'm sorry but this is one thing no one can defend the church on.

Recalling his recent visit to Italy, Susaipakiyam said there is a lot to learn from the solidarity that the Italians have shown with the marines.

Yes perhaps the padre should understand that he being an Indian should show solidarity with the Indians and not the marines. I;m sure a fat deal was worked out by the Vatican and the padre just acted out of a good business sense.

And for all the forgiving drama, I repeat, is the Church willing to forgive Dara Singh ?

 

[Jade]

The release is the matter between Indian Government and Italian Government. If Italian Government has promised that they will stand trial in India means the marines will be back. No need to read more into it.

 

[Bang Galore]

..even under section 498 public interest is taken into account. The very fact that the court consulted the central Govt. for their opinion proves this.

Court decision was based on feedback from the GoI.

High Court Judges, as i have said earlier have unfettered decision making power under section 498 in cases of giving bail (something which has been tested many times). Court asking for an opinion or objection is standard, they are under no obligation to follow those opinions/objections. You may be right that the GoI's position influenced the court's decision but that opinion & the decision that followed is not legally wrong, regardless of whatever your opinion on the case might be. In any matter involving foreign relations, any court would give more weight to the submissions made by the GoI than a contrary position of a state government.

 

[A1Kaid]

I don't think they will be coming back, this is their Christmas gift.

 

[zaxcolix]

This was an interesting discussion...couple of conclusions to be drawn...

1. Objective of my post was to draw the distinction between how foreign govt. takes effort to free their citizens in foreign Jails and the apathy shown by Indian govt. (policies dawn by 60 years of congress rule) to Indian citizens in foreign jails. India has the largest number of jailed citizens abroad.

2. Congress supporters were more interested in discussing about Italians, thus showing the same apathy to the general Indians that the Ruling Elites display. Non congress supporters too did not show too much enthusiasm about discussing Jailed Indians in foreign jails even though a Large chunk of jailed Indians are 'Malayalees' and most active posts were from 'Malayalees' too.

3. Italy is successfully fighting for their marines by using their soft power of the church to soften public sentiment especially among the christian's and put pressure on GoI to go soft on the case.

4. Church has acted as emissaries of the Italian govt. and have appropriated some of the role of the govt. and judiciary. This is considered as a good thing by christian Indians in pdf.

5. Kerala Christians in pdf has demonstrated loyalty to their church rather than to their fellow christian victim. Church has demonstrated its loyalty to Vatican. Secular hindus just have to live with this duality if they want to get on with their lives. People who object to this is communal.

6. Congress Govt. has no qualms about placing India in a position to depend on the 'goodwill' of Italians to return back their citizens and do not care about the message it sends to the rest of the world about the value of Indian lives.

 

[gslv mk3]

1. Objective of my post was to draw the distinction between how foreign govt. takes effort to free their citizens in foreign Jails and the apathy shown by Indian govt. (policies dawn by 60 years of congress rule) to Indian citizens in foreign jails. India has the largest number of jailed citizens abroad.
2. Congress supporters were more interested in discussing about Italians, thus showing the same apathy to the general Indians that the Ruling Elites display. Non congress supporters too did not show too much enthusiasm about discussing Jailed Indians in foreign jails even though a Large chunk of jailed Indians are 'Malayalees' and most active posts were from 'Malayalees' too.

Thats what even the Bishop you are accusing said about.

Recalling his recent visit to Italy, Susaipakiyam said there is a lot to learn from the solidarity that the Italians have shown with the marines.

"A number of innocent Indian fishermen are in the Sri Lankan and Pakistani prisons. Are we doing anything to secure their release? In fact, this episode should open our eyes to see their plight and work for their welfare," he said.''

3. Italy is successfully fighting for their marines by using their soft power of the church to soften public sentiment especially among the christian's and put pressure on GoI to go soft on the case.

For you to know there is no soft sentiments for them among us.

4. Church has acted as emissaries of the Italian govt. and have appropriated some of the role of the govt. and judiciary. This is considered as a good thing by christian Indians in pdf.

5. Kerala Christians in pdf has demonstrated loyalty to their church rather than to their fellow christian victim. Church has demonstrated its loyalty to Vatican. Secular hindus just have to live with this duality if they want to get on with their lives. People who object to this is communal.

When and where??
They are accused and they will be prosecuted when they return back.
You should accuse the italian lady and stupid congress instead of Indian Christians.
Do you think we are a very powerful lobby group??

Maybe thats why

1.)Hundreds of Christians were displaced from there homes,nuns killed and Churches destroyed in Kandhamal,riot continueing for days and with no police involvement.
2.)A Communalist goon in name of a 'swamy' (another word hijacked by communalists) was able to announce 'Christians will not be tolerated' on state media prelude to riots
3.)Christian community continued to be potrayed as wicked in state media (kerala especialy ),national media and social media.

6. Congress Govt. has no qualms about placing India in a position to depend on the 'goodwill' of Italians to return back their citizens and do not care about the message it sends to the rest of the world about the value of Indian lives.

Right about that one.