It is time for Navy Air Arm to take over from PAF and start flying JF-17's

[volatile]

Navy job will be the toughest of all and it won't be standard SOP or KPI as Navy will be playing Aggressor as well as defensor ,Giving 2 -3 Squadrons to Navy can ease and compliment Naval operations rather than PAF as i feel PAF will be overstretched in case of conflict with Air defense as well as ground support role so Navy should be independent in its operations

 

[GriffinsRule]

Not asking for Navy to procure additional aircraft. Just to transfer the command of the JF-17's to PN. We already own those aircraft, we already have the Mehran airbase, so the infrastructure is already there so the costs would be minimal. PN pilots already train at Army Aviation school so i don't see why they can't train at PAF school. As for resources, just move the resources PAF is using to operate these aircraft to the PN.


If PA is under attack in their sector? What is their sector? Karachi? Because Mehran Airbase is in Karachi. If PA is under attack in Karachi, then PAF has a base there and they can help them out. During war PAF will already be flying these squadrons in a maritime role so they won't be available for anything else anyways. Especially considering their armaments.

First off, that is not how it works. There is no such thing as just transfer. PN would have to procure those aircraft from the PAF using its budget. They are different entities with their own accounting and budgeting and so forth.

And second, no the sector is not just the city or the surrounding air base ... any IA incursion in Sindh will be their sector or area of operations. And what armament are you talking about here? All JF-17s are multirole and can carry everything. Anyways, your point is dud basically and will never come to fruition imo.

 

[ziaulislam]

regardless, PAF needs to increase it front line squardons from 18/19 to atleast 24-26 if its going to fight the combine sq of IAF/IN

 

[MastanKhan]

When did PAF show treasonous attitude towards PA and PN?

Hi,

Towards army---Refused air support at Longewala incursion---. Otherwise the map of pakistan would be different---.

Towards navy---when the report came in from the PIA pilot that there were missile boats being towed behind a frigate coming towards Karachi---the Paf commander Gen A Rahim refused to send aircraft to investigate---.

ACM A Rahim's---he was as drunk on whiskey as he could be just like most other pakistani generals at that time during the war---his comment was " Let the Navy handle its own problems ".

Afterwards when the naval Admiral complained to him about lack of support---that son of a bi-tch had the audacity to say " It happens ole boy "---.

In case of the Atlantique---even though Paf told the navy not to fly the Atlantique towards that area because of hostile action---and the navy did fly---.

It was the job of the Paf to send an aircraft on its own recognition to act as a protector---like a 'brother's keeper'---.

This attitude of fck them let be on their own---is treason against the organization and the state---.

 

[TMA]

so how can Pakistan prevent this sort of attitude? How do other countries do this?

Hi,

Towards army---Refused air support at Longewala incursion---. Otherwise the map of pakistan would be different---.

Towards navy---when the report came in from the PIA pilot that there were missile boats being towed behind a frigate coming towards Karachi---the Paf commander Gen A Rahim refused to send aircraft to investigate---.

ACM A Rahim's---he was as drunk on whiskey as he could be just like most other pakistani generals at that time during the war---his comment was " Let the Navy handle its own problems ".

Afterwards when the naval Admiral complained to him about lack of support---that son of a bi-tch had the audacity to say " It happens ole boy "---.

In case of the Atlantique---even though Paf told the navy not to fly the Atlantique towards that area because of hostile action---and the navy did fly---.

It was the job of the Paf to send an aircraft on its own recognition to act as a protector---like a 'brother's keeper'---.

This attitude of fck them let be on their own---is treason against the organization and the state---.

 

[MastanKhan]

so how can Pakistan prevent this sort of attitude? How do other countries do this?

Hi,

At time of war---Court martial and immediate termination---execution---.

His second in command GENERAL should have executed him at the spot and taken charge---.

 

[TMA]

Hi,

At time of war---Court martial and immediate termination---execution---.

His second in command GENERAL should have executed him at the spot and taken charge---.

Ok, I meant as a overarching system.
It seems that it is not the system then that is the problem, just a few bad apples...

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi in my opinion it’s all game of power and allocations of funds at the moment paf whatever they
Are getting they must be getting some kind of share of navy also to perform on their behalf
Once the dod of govt approved a separate fighter squad for navy their budget will be increased
Considerably
Alas with the gawadar and cpec coming on it’s better to have couple of or more dedicated squads
For naval air arm only
Pilot training should be a matte all the present one can have their uniform change under navy
And start getting seniority or drawing salaries under naval air arm
For awacs as we have already seen zdk flying over Arabian Sea those can be specifi to naval
Air arm as they already have quiet a number of p3s with them
Further training in future shouldn’t be a problem as if we can trained other nations pilot why can’t
We train our own arm
Thank you

 

[ARMalik]

So what I am getting out of this is that there are "limitations" for an AF to provide AF services to Navy as land based AF can do so much. The proposal is for a "carrier type" arrangement so that the AF can operate from these carriers and thus be more effective.

Can I propose an alternate solution? Within Pakistan's Maritime boundaries/EEZ can Pak create "Artificial Island/s" just like what China did in South China sea. The Chinese have expertise in building artificial islands.

This will allow PN to deploy fighter jets permanently at sea and cover the whole maritime boundary. I think this is an effective solution.

 

[SipahSalar]

First off, that is not how it works. There is no such thing as just transfer. PN would have to procure those aircraft from the PAF using its budget. They are different entities with their own accounting and budgeting and so forth.

This is so stupid. Why would the Navy need to pay for an aircraft all over again?

Hi,

Towards army---Refused air support at Longewala incursion---. Otherwise the map of pakistan would be different---.

Towards navy---when the report came in from the PIA pilot that there were missile boats being towed behind a frigate coming towards Karachi---the Paf commander Gen A Rahim refused to send aircraft to investigate---.

ACM A Rahim's---he was as drunk on whiskey as he could be just like most other pakistani generals at that time during the war---his comment was " Let the Navy handle its own problems ".

Afterwards when the naval Admiral complained to him about lack of support---that son of a bi-tch had the audacity to say " It happens ole boy "---.

In case of the Atlantique---even though Paf told the navy not to fly the Atlantique towards that area because of hostile action---and the navy did fly---.

It was the job of the Paf to send an aircraft on its own recognition to act as a protector---like a 'brother's keeper'---.

This attitude of fck them let be on their own---is treason against the organization and the state---.

Were you rejected by the PAF or something? You seem to be carrying a personal vendetta against the air force.

 

[MastanKhan]

Ok, I meant as a overarching system.
It seems that it is not the system then that is the problem, just a few bad apples...

Hi,

The system is a problem---that is the reason something like that happened---.

The system breeds a certain attitude---and that attitude is reflective in a visual manner in the posture of almost all of the pictures of fighter pilots of Paf---.

This is so stupid. Why would the Navy need to pay for an aircraft all over again?


Were you rejected by the PAF or something? You seem to be carrying a personal vendetta against the air force.

Hi,

Where does Vendetta come in---.

I am not making any of those things up---it is a documented historic fact---of Paf---.

And I have not quoted what ACM RETD Asghar Khan told his counter part in India---.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No. Since inducting the Mirage 5PA3 in the 1980s the PAF and PN have spent 30+ years building interoperability and cohesion. In fact, since the stationing the F-16 Block-52 and MLU at Shahbaz, the 32 Tactical Wing is basically there to support maritime operations, incl. air cover for the PN. This also includes the KE AEW&C. Basically, we are at the stage of bringing the PAF and PN closer in terms of mission planning, communication, execution, etc. Asking the PN to raise an organic fighter fleet, even as a re-allocation from the PAF, is needless complexity and cost.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What does it matter what applets the pilot is wearing?

PAF has been flying JF-17's in a maritime role for quite a while. Pakistan Navy already has an Air Arm. It already flies several fixed wing aircraft. Pakistan Navy also already has an airbase, Mehran Airbase. So how long will we keep relegating the maritime role to PAF?

 

[MastanKhan]

No. Since inducting the Mirage 5PA3 in the 1980s the PAF and PN have spent 30+ years building interoperability and cohesion. In fact, since the stationing the F-16 Block-52 and MLU at Shahbaz, the 32 Tactical Wing is basically there to support maritime operations, incl. air cover for the PN. This also includes the KE AEW&C. Basically, we are at the stage of bringing the PAF and PN closer in terms of mission planning, communication, execution, etc. Asking the PN to raise an organic fighter fleet, even as a re-allocation from the PAF, is needless complexity and cost.

Hi,

It is not to raise a seperate sqdrn---but one under the command and control of the PN---maintained and flown by Paf.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Just ask the Italians. Or the Argies. Everytime someone has tried to defend against an enemy with carriers, with land based airpower, they have suffered. Land based airpower has limitations which the sea based ones don't.

We need small carriers, 25-30,000 tonnes. 15-25 A/C. Not Ford class Supercarriers.

then tell me at one example of that bro and what the limitation of land based airpower? If we will have small carrier which jet could be on it? small aircraft carrier needs STVOL type jets on it like harriers or F-35B which we currently don't have it and bro your referring to those countries AC, basically those AC are helicopter carriers with no fixed wing jets on those AC and to defend those carrier you will need at least 2 to 3 frigate/destroyer equipped with long range SAMs other than it will be easy target for enemy with a saturation attacks by anti-ship missiles by the enemy, so think logically Mr @sparten