Israeli export 15K times greater than in 1948

[RayKalm]

Its obvious you know next to nothing about this conflict with your insightful post. So please let the educated people discuss this topic.

Hmm educated? Yes, throwing out comments like those sure makes you sound educated. Grow up.

 

[King Solomon]

Hmm educated? Yes, throwing out comments like those sure makes you sound educated. Grow up.

But seriously, most pakistani people discuss israel issue in a very biased manner. It is always necessary to see both sides of the coin.

 

[RayKalm]

But seriously, most pakistani people discuss israel issue in a very biased manner. It is always necessary to see both sides of the coin.

I just stated something which very much goes unnoticed. Mercenary thinks he knows what he's talking about, but doesn't look at both sides of the coin.

Israel does in fact get AID annually, the highest per capita, from the USA than any other state. That does play into their success.

 

[Mercenary]

France, England, China, Russia will never side with Israel, it is simply easier to side against Israel.

Let us agree on one thing: The current Israeli policy is wrong, there can't be any type of peace with the masses who are taught to hate from the day they can understand hatred.

Israel must annex all the Jewish settlements, destroy the small ones which are vulnerable to suicide bombings and give the new founded Palestine all the Arabs which identify themselves as Palestinian. There won't be peace but at least there will be a goal to protect, and Israel strives under harsh conditions.

It is ridiculous to believe the Arabs will ever accept peace, not until the culture of hatred ends.

Yep, thats pretty much with what I have been saying.

Dismantle the farflung settlements, keep the major ones near the West Bank and Israeli border, give the Palestinian a contiguous state and compensate them for any territorial loss by giving different parts of Israel to them and dis-engage Israel from the West Bank.

But why isn't Israel already doing this?

Thats my question.

Hmm educated? Yes, throwing out comments like those sure makes you sound educated. Grow up.

Your statement that USA has supported Israel from Day 1.

It was Soviet Union which supplied Arms to Israel during the 1948 War which defeated the Arabs.

It was France and England who gave Arms to Israel in the 1950's because of Nasser supporting insurgencies in Yemen and Algeria against the French and British and then it was USA who condemned Israel, France and England.

And USA did not support Israel during the 6 Day War because USA warned Israel not to be the first one to fire the shots when it in fact it did by taking out the Egyptian Air Force.

It was only during the Yom Kippur War in 1973 that USA supported Israel because it was Arabs who started the war.

So read up on history before making on such statements.

 

[RayKalm]

Your statement that USA has supported Israel from Day 1.

It was Soviet Union which supplied Arms to Israel during the 1948 War which defeated the Arabs.

It was France and England who gave Arms to Israel in the 1950's because of Nasser supporting insurgencies in Yemen and Algeria against the French and British and then it was USA who condemned Israel, France and England.

And USA did not support Israel during the 6 Day War because USA warned Israel not to be the first one to fire the shots when it in fact it did by taking out the Egyptian Air Force.

It was only during the Yom Kippur War in 1973 that USA supported Israel because it was Arabs who started the war.

So read up on history before making on such statements.

Read my post again, there seems to be something wrong with your eyes.

Responding to the thread title I pointed out that Israel has been getting AID in dollars from the USA since day one of it's creation, where you brought up all these other events I haven't a clue.

 

[King Solomon]

I just stated something which very much goes unnoticed. Mercenary thinks he knows what he's talking about, but doesn't look at both sides of the coin.

Israel does in fact get AID annually, the highest per capita, from the USA then any other state. That does play into their success.

That;'s a popular misconception. As far as I'm aware of it is USSR who aided Israel at the beginning. Today, Israel depends on Russia for its energy security.

Well, would it be fair to also state the amount of military aid Egypt gets from US? It is on the same level as Israel, though not per capita due to huge population. You have to admit that little Israel without any energy resources of its own DOES manage to rule over all Arabs by proxy or otherwise. You must give credit where it is due.

 

[RayKalm]

That;'s a popular misconception. As far as I'm aware of it is USSR who aided Israel at the beginning. Today, Israel depends on Russia for its energy security.

Well, would it be fair to also state the amount of military aid Egypt gets from US? It is on the same level as Israel, though not per capita due to huge population. You have to admit that little Israel without any energy resources of its own DOES manage to rule over all Arabs by proxy or otherwise. You must give credit where it is due.

The thread's about Israel though.

If Israel was actually this successful without the help of dollars from the U.S, then I'd actually give it the credit it deserves.

Yes, I have to admit, Israel has been very successful on things which you wouldn't expect it to have been considering it's population, resources, size.

 

[King Solomon]

The thread's about Israel though.

If Israel was actually this successful without the help of dollars from the U.S, then I'd actually give it the credit it deserves.

Yes, I have to admit, Israel has been very successful on things which you wouldn't expect it to have been considering it's population, resources, size.

Well, comparison is always relative. That way, they've been EXTREMELY successful.

 

[PteX]

The thread's about Israel though.

If Israel was actually this successful without the help of dollars from the U.S, then I'd actually give it the credit it deserves.

Yes, I have to admit, Israel has been very successful on things which you wouldn't expect it to have been considering it's population, resources, size.

Mercenary already answered your statements, reread what he said, try to comprehend. The USA was not a major Israeli ally till after the 6 day war. Israel had already won numerous wars by then.

Yep, thats pretty much with what I have been saying.

Dismantle the farflung settlements, keep the major ones near the West Bank and Israeli border, give the Palestinian a contiguous state and compensate them for any territorial loss by giving different parts of Israel to them and dis-engage Israel from the West Bank.

But why isn't Israel already doing this?

Thats my question.



Your statement that USA has supported Israel from Day 1.

It was Soviet Union which supplied Arms to Israel during the 1948 War which defeated the Arabs.

It was France and England who gave Arms to Israel in the 1950's because of Nasser supporting insurgencies in Yemen and Algeria against the French and British and then it was USA who condemned Israel, France and England.

And USA did not support Israel during the 6 Day War because USA warned Israel not to be the first one to fire the shots when it in fact it did by taking out the Egyptian Air Force.

It was only during the Yom Kippur War in 1973 that USA supported Israel because it was Arabs who started the war.

So read up on history before making on such statements.

Why? A thousand reasons(Excuses) and one. Outer forces are trying to force a fake peace upon Israel and if she refuses, then the Arabs can gleefully say that they were not the cause of the peace process failing.
I won't be voting for Likud, that's for sure, but they will still win and this is a democracy.

 

[RayKalm]

Mercenary already answered your statements, reread what he said, try to comprehend. The USA was not a major Israeli ally till after the 6 day war. Israel had already won numerous wars by then..

Maybe not upfront, but there's more than enough evidence that they were behind the scenes.

 

[Solomon2]

Funny, if native American decided to kick you whites out, then based on what you say, they have a moral claim.

In your example, what does a moral claim have to do with whether native Americans kicked whites out or not?

The Jews were kicked out from Madena 1400 years ago, if they decided to resettle the city, would that go well with international community or UN? more importantly, do they have a moral claim to it?

Keep thinking that way, please.

If Jews exterminated all Palestinians except for a thousand who moved to Jordan, would their offspring 7 centuries later have a moral claim on Palestine?

These hypotheticals get further removed from reality and the thread topic.

The only law/morality/ethic in international relations is power, that's way despite they world tireless effort to resolve the issue 45 times, Israel and the US rejected because they have power(veto)...The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims consider Al-Quds(Jerusalem) holy(because Al-Aqsa (Masjid). Unsurprisingly, Jews claim that the exact site is the location of their long lost temple -

As Moynihan famously said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. This ignorant history stuff (for, as FaujiH points out, you have to ignore Islam's own historians here) pretty much ranks you with Holocaust deniers on the credibility and ethical scale. To make your point you are embracing ignorance and the perpetration of lies. If these opinions are widespread in the Muslim world then you can see there is a big problem to address - and correct.

Just like the Qur'an said 1400 years ago that Jews will return to their "homeland" it is said that Muslims will kick them out of it, just like we did to the Christian crusaders -

Oh, a new Muslim holy book to that supersedes the Koran, where can I pick up a copy?

I disagree with you ,there was sth on 29 november 1947 , Link

Sure, but that was a GA resolution, not an SC one. Different standing in international law. The 181 Plan was dependent upon mutual agreement of the parties. Israel said Yes and the Arabs said No. The End.

about 46% of that land belongs to Palestinian , that most of that has already occupied by Israel , not to mention new settlements .

Don't know the percentages but I see no reason why all Jewish settlements in the Mandate Zone aren't legal if the civil and property rights of owners are respected. Arabs can sell Jews land for Jews to settle on and Jews can settle on State lands that were originally Turkish, then fell to the British for the purpose of Jewish settlement.

 

[Mercenary]

Read my post again, there seems to be something wrong with your eyes.

Responding to the thread title I pointed out that Israel has been getting AID in dollars from the USA since day one of it's creation, where you brought up all these other events I haven't a clue.

US did not give aid to Israel from Day 1. I just pointed that out to you meticulously. It was Soviet Union, France, and England which helped Israel.

US Aid to Israel only started in 1973 and became a regular occurrence in 1979 after the Camp David Accords. From 1948 to 1973, US did not give aid to Israel.

The US aid to Israel from Day 1 is a common myth propagated by conspiracy theorists and bearded mullahs with loud speakers.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

Its nothing but exaggeration not by the number but increasing significance of Israel. The main reason behind getting the 90 billion usd export is that most of the western countries provide almost free access and several types of concession. The other reason is getting the 1 million strong soviet expertise most scientists and engineer as a gift by selling the secret of US nuke to soviet union and almost free access of all western technologies. Otherwise Israel would require another one decades or two to reach this position.

However have you seen how much muslim countries are producing science and engineer currently!! If the current trend continue Israel will be an insignificant entity in the world arena. For example Iran itself is producing more then 200K engineers a year and many of them are pursuing masters and phd. What do you think if the sanction has been lifted where the position of Israel will be in this scenario!! Not to mention another rising country Turkey in the middle east apart from Egypt, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc. Israel already lags behind in per capita gdp then UAE, Qatar, Kuwait. Saudi will also overtake it pretty soon. N by 2050 Saudi Arabiya will have around 100K per capita GDP. You will see no body mention the position of Israel!! Even Egypt will be one of the top 10 economy. Indonesia number 4, Nigeria 6th. Bangladesh, Turkey likely around in top 15.

As the USA and most of the Europe is facing financial crisis it will not be in a position to bail out Israel in the next one decade or two. By that time it is predicted all the zionist lobby will be much weaken as most of the young jews and evangelical christians does not care about Israel much. Even already there is already lots of criticism on 3 billion free Aid to Israel per year by USA. It is almost equivalent to 36 billion USD aid to egypt or around 80 billion usd to Pakistan if consider in per capita basis. Even apart from this Israel gets another 3-5 billion indirect aid from USA and western countries.

I have just so far mentioned about muslim countries nor the BRIC countries. If you some up all future of Israel is not that rosy in the next couple of decades. You can write it in your forehead.

 

[Tshering22]

I do recognise the right of a Jewish state to exist. But why in that piece of land, hostile to all neighbours and with a destructive tendency? Wouldn't it be better if the US gave up some area equal to Israel for all jews to live in?

My friend, from what I understand of Jewish religion, it is their ancestral holy land long before even Islam and Christianity existed. Why do you think they did not consider opting moving into Australia or Europe or Canada or something earlier? It was not just a piece of land that they wanted. The idea for them was to stay in the land where their most revered religious site is there. Since besides, most lands in Israel in early days around its independence were bought by Jewish settlers. When you buy land, it then naturally becomes yours right? There's a price you pay for it and then you get that land. It was a fair deal. Whereas there was no palestinian struggle in those times as they portray it.

Now I know most Muslim members would refute my comment and claim me to be pandering to Israel's side, but the simple fact that the Jews were there in that land much before other Abrahamic religions is a big enough proof.

 

[King Solomon]

My friend, from what I understand of Jewish religion, it is their ancestral holy land long before even Islam and Christianity existed. Why do you think they did not consider opting moving into Australia or Europe or Canada or something earlier? It was not just a piece of land that they wanted. The idea for them was to stay in the land where their most revered religious site is there. Since besides, most lands in Israel in early days around its independence were bought by Jewish settlers. When you buy land, it then naturally becomes yours right? There's a price you pay for it and then you get that land. It was a fair deal. Whereas there was no palestinian struggle in those times as they portray it.

Now I know most Muslim members would refute my comment and claim me to be pandering to Israel's side, but the simple fact that the Jews were there in that land much before other Abrahamic religions is a big enough proof.

Yes I understand. Then the claim of these Arabs are pretty hypocritical I must admit. And I'm muslim.

- They purchased the land

- British occupied it and it is Britain's will who it gives or whom it does not.

Why the hue and cry about palestinians then? It is the Arabs who tried to unfairly destroy Israel. The neighbors could establish a palestinian state before 1967 peacefully instead of waging war on Israel. Yet now, Egypt could give up Sinai to form an independent Palestine state and migrate all Palestinians there. This would be the most peaceful solution.