Israel considers Banning Burka

[PteX]

@harpoon

The only way to fight terrorism and Islamic extremism is through education and changing their way of life, and sending anyone who tries to disrupt this process to meet his creator.
If we close our eyes to the problem, the snake will strangle the life from many more innocents.

 

[Solomon2]

the job description entails being willing to give their lives for the country....no soldier in Pakistan Army is afraid of fight or of death. It's an honour.

I've read too much and heard too much from the pens and mouths of Pakistani diplomats to take that statement at face value. The Pakistani Army has impugned its own honor for generations now. If you want to raise it to the level of an honorable institution you have to expose its past misdeeds. Only then can it truly be grasped what "honorable" means, yes?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@harpoon

The only way to fight terrorism and Islamic extremism is through education and changing their way of life, and sending anyone who tries to disrupt this process to meet his creator.
If we close our eyes to the problem, the snake will strangle the life from many more innocents.

i agree

but from the other side, you should understand why this extremism exists in the first place......knowing symptoms alone is not useful to find the cure

I've read too much and heard too much from the pens and mouths of Pakistani diplomats to take that statement at face value. The Pakistani Army has impugned its own honor for generations now. If you want to raise it to the level of an honorable institution you have to expose its past misdeeds. Only then can it truly be grasped what "honorable" means, yes?

coming from a civilian who doesnt even know what it means to be a soldier and fight for one's own country

there's a reason the whole nation looks up to the Army

 

[PteX]

i agree

but from the other side, you should understand why this extremism exists in the first place......knowing symptoms alone is not useful to find the cure



coming from a civilian who doesnt even know what it means to be a soldier and fight for one's own country

there's a reason the whole nation looks up to the Army

I know their reason. The same reason why Muslim Taliban kills Innocent Pakistanis, Muslim Filipinos kill Christian Filipinos, Thai Muslims are killing Buddhist Thais, Nigerians Muslims kill Nigerian Christians, etc...
Nothing to do with this Arab-Israeli conflict, the core is Islamic extremism funded and taught by KSA, Iran and the rich Oil states trying to spread their twisted ideology of Islam. You already have extremists in Egypt killing and bombing Christian Arabs and they`ve just begun taken over.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I know their reason. The same reason why Muslim Taliban kills Innocent Pakistanis, Muslim Filipinos kill Christian Filipinos, Thai Muslims are killing Buddhist Thais, Nigerians Muslims kill Nigerian Christians, etc...

i discussed this with you in the PMs we exchanged last week

Nothing to do with this Arab-Israeli conflict, the core is Islamic extremism funded and taught by KSA, Iran and the rich Oil states trying to spread their twisted ideology of Islam.

well in Iran and KSA case, they are using what they perceive as ''their brand'' of Islam for political purposes.....im against that practice, actually.

many issues would be resolved if these countries put aside their stupid differences.......but to be honest with you, it's easier to imagine israel being in favour (especially nowdays) of the wahhabi mindset because it is so radically anti-Iran while at the same time, it paints Islam and Muslims as ''ultra orthodox to the point of being semi or full-on intolerant''

put a Muslim extremist and a Jewish extremist in the same room...they will see eye to eye and agree on a lot of political and social issues

You already have extremists in Egypt killing and bombing Christian Arabs and they`ve just begun taken over.

some of the unrest in Egypt is caused by pro-Mubarak thugs that are trying to destabilize the Jan. 25th movement

they are banking on sectarian warfare...to a greater extent, i think Egyptians are smart people and would not allow it to succeed.


incidentally, the Muslim Brotherhood (which won a large number of seats in Parliament) condemned the killings and vowed to take action against the killers. I hope they follow through on that promise.


Muslim Brotherhood, or FJP, or whatever you want to call them -- are not extremists at all. People have been brain-washed to think they are, but in actuality they are fairly moderate and progressive-minded.

 

[PteX]

MB will be fairly moderate and progressive-minded only as long as they can secure the utmost power, they are the largest party in Egypt today but the Army still holds the power.

They will do what they think is best for their own interests, which may include future wars with Israel, there is no doubt about that.

The problem is while there are extremist Jews, they are shunned and disdained by the general public and religious Jewish society. While Muslim extremists are embraced full-hardheartedly and are revered for their teachings and Jihadist ways.

They have top ranking positions in governments, steal public money and create new Jihadists every single day. Because it would be un-Islamic to kill the Islamic fanatics because they are Muslim and the general supportive population of this Imams will be furious if the governments or armies try to take them out.

 

[Solomon2]

coming from a civilian who doesnt even know what it means to be a soldier and fight for one's own country there's a reason the whole nation looks up to the Army

The last time a Pakistani soldier could claim to be fighting for one's own country was 1965. Since then its soldiery have fought for the Army against their own country or served as paid mercenaries: in 1971 to kill their Eastern brethren, in the Gulf states to the 1990s, in Kargil to prevent peace, in Swat to forestall the Army's dissolution in the face of anarchy.

The reason the nation looks up to the Army is decades of Army-inspired propaganda added to the corruption and incompetence of politicians and the legal system, which the Army has worked hard to sustain by destroying the school system to enforce ignorance.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The last time a Pakistani soldier could claim to be fighting for one's own country was 1965. Since then its soldiery have fought for the Army against their own country or served as paid mercenaries: in 1971 to kill their Eastern brethren,

no the mission was to kill indian-backed terrorists....we did a good job of that, the real issue was political.....the Army was the one pushing for a political solution, it was Z.A. Bhutto who insisted on boots. Army only felt compelled to go in when indian-backed terrorists let loose their dogs

paid mercenaries? i DARE you to live on a soldier's salary. What would you know

in the Gulf states to the 1990s, in Kargil to prevent peace, in Swat to forestall the Army's dissolution in the face of anarchy.

Gulf States since we had defence pacts with them, Kargil because of movements of indian armoured columns and other posturing (which is never talked about by the stephen cohens such as yourself)

Swat -- a noble campaign, which is why Swatis chant pro-army slogans. What we did in Swat is your envy. With trillions, you couldnt even tame Kabul.


tell me, why are American soldiers dying for israel? And where do your loyalties lie anyways?

The reason the nation looks up to the Army is decades of Army-inspired propaganda added to the corruption and incompetence of politicians and the legal system, which the Army has worked hard to sustain by destroying the school system to enforce ignorance.

au contraire.....the army actually has built many schools, and no -- they arent wholly run, "owned" or administered by the army either!!!

(talk to Xeric about this -- he'll enlighten you more)

i'll help you get in touch with Dr. Ehtisham Ahmad; even he conceeds that when it comes to corruption, inefficiency, graft etc. --- Army is the least of all "suspects"


please come back when you are more informed on this subject.....dont believe everything you read in New-York-Slimes

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

MB will be fairly moderate and progressive-minded only as long as they can secure the utmost power, they are the largest party in Egypt today but the Army still holds the power.

They will do what they think is best for their own interests, which may include future wars with Israel, there is no doubt about that.

i dont see war with israel anytime in the immediate or distant future, to be honest....

where would diplomatic relations be headed? well this is a huge question mark for now

The problem is while there are extremist Jews, they are shunned and disdained by the general public and religious Jewish society. While Muslim extremists are embraced full-hardheartedly and are revered for their teachings and Jihadist ways.

full-heartedly? that's a tall claim to make, no?

youre generalizing over 1 billion people, how do you do that?

They have top ranking positions in governments, steal public money and create new Jihadists every single day.

you view HAMAS as terrorist organization, who created HAMAS?

you view those who attacked israeli targets as terrorists....what about those who are attacking Iranian scientists?

Because it would be un-Islamic to kill the Islamic fanatics because they are Muslim and the general supportive population of this Imams will be furious if the governments or armies try to take them out.

in almost all cases, killing is un-Islamic

 

[PteX]

i dont see war with israel anytime in the immediate or distant future, to be honest....

where would diplomatic relations be headed? well this is a huge question mark for now





full-heartedly? that's a tall claim to make, no?

youre generalizing over 1 billion people, how do you do that?



you view HAMAS as terrorist organization, who created HAMAS?

you view those who attacked israeli targets as terrorists....what about those who are attacking Iranian scientists?




in almost all cases, killing is un-Islamic

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, what do you think will happen to the peace treaty?
I've seen enough furious protests around the muslim world, burning American flags and Israeli ones, celebrating suicide bomber and demanding Sharia law.

The moderate part of the muslim world is almost never heard protesting, even then only once a blue moon.
Even moderate Muslims hate the western civilization just because they were taught to do so from a young age.

 

[Solomon2]

no the mission was to kill indian-backed terrorists....

Pffftttt!!!! In 1965 U.N. observers described Pakistani infiltrators crossing the border, the incident led by steps to an Indian invasion of West Pakistan which culminated in a big tank battle outside Lahore. Never before have I heard of read of alleged "indian-backed terrorists" here; indeed, we only hear empty allegations of such from the ISI which even Pakistan's SC complains about.

Loyalty to an institution is not the same thing as loyalty to one's country, AZ.

it was Z.A. Bhutto who insisted on boots -

Yeah, this little would-be Napoleon deserves a large measure of blame.

paid mercenaries? i DARE you to live on a soldier's salary. What would you know

Too much for your comfort, it seems.

Kargil because of movements of indian armoured columns -

Now you're being silly. The only logical purpose of Kargil was to undermine peace talks between NS and India. True, the area overlooked a road, but light infantry aren't equipped with long-range anti-tank weapons, are they?

Swat -- a noble campaign, which is why Swatis chant pro-army slogans. What we did in Swat is your envy.

O.K., there are aspects to the Swat campaign I liked - especially the Army's plans to evacuate civilians - but others I did not and do not. Media management is only one part of the battle and there is only so much one can do with attack helicopters - they aren't a substitute for brave soldiers with boots on the ground.

tell me, why -

Curious, but we've gone way OT now, haven't we? Have we forgotten the thread topic entirely?

 

[ephone]

Just after 1949, CCP banned the practice of wrapping feet among women, which has been a practice for hundreds of years. Of course, there were women who still preferred to doing it. You think CCP should not ban it???

BTW, CCP also banned prostitution as well then. There were women who preferred to working as prostitute as well. You think CCP should not have banned than then???

However, such evil practices were banned once for all.

What about woman's choice. Many in India wear it due to culture, not because of force.

 

[Ark-Angel]

Niqab with proper modest dressing is what Islam commands.
I'm Pakistani and I'm a Muslim but I do support a ban on Burqa.