Islamabad Marriot Terrorist Bombing

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thanks and apply this rule in to Delhi Blast thread also..

To further continue on that line of thought - similar posts on similar thread, that accuse the Indian institutions of killing their own people to blame Pakistan or some other such idiotic conspiracy, as has been done on this thread by some Indians against the ISI, will not be tolerated.

These terrorist attacks are tragedies, and Pakistani members need to realize that Indians will have the same emotions about such events, and the views posted, as Pakistanis would - 'so do unto others as you would have done unto you'

 

[IceCold]

I tell you an insight, when the FC and army people cuaght that explosive in Quetta, army was warned by BLA governement people over that operation.

Wow now that needs some serious thinking as to who are these BLA elements within the government? I doubt zardari has the gutts as was clearly seen when he stopped all actions into the tribal belt to gain votes, but with some one like Musharraf, he definately would have taken them out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

BLA governement people over that operation

What do you mean?

The BLA people warned the Army about the explosives, or after they caught the explosives?

 

[dabong1]

We needs to get help from the sri lankans when i comes to this kind of threat......they have decades of experince.

 

[Spring Onion]

Sometime back there was an article posted here that Pakistan will buy equipment from CHina that can detect sueside belt. What happened to that? Also around sensitive installations, there should be some sort of equipment placed in distance which could detect any kind of explosive which might be passing around to hit the senstive target area. Only then can these suecide trucks could be detected and netrualized before they can ever hit the target.

Well even if you buy such equipment how will you use it on a person who is wearing a suicide explosive belt???

As soon as you try to detect using that equipment the suicide bomber will blew himself and tell me how many of the people we can check among hunderds of people on roads and streets.

We need to check every vhicle at every entry point and every toll plaza.
Plus above all we need to utilize the NDRA tracking system.
Trust me their tracking is system is of class.

 

[RescueRanger]

Munir:

Maybe a barrier is not enough... Maybe they should even ake a fort where no big trucks are allowed to enter... And then atleast security trained to eliminate terrorist and certainly not seaching for a single anti fire equipment


Looking at the movie I am amazed how pathetic the security is. It would have been fast killing of the driver. Pulling away of the truck. Not walking around for 4 minutes.

Sorry sir but you are wrong, it was not Marriott security that failed but the state services including intelligence, police including traffic and special branch and military intelligence assets.

The hotel security team were not the problem; you are forgetting that as far as the corporate security team of Marriott was concerned they did everything in their power to assist.

They were trying to prevent the fire from escalating and this is standard procedure and common sense, they took immense risk to personal safety to do this selfless act I doubt many would consider doing this when only moments before someone tried to blow you up.

These ordinary security guards working for private companies earn 4,500 - 6,000 rupees a month and do not receive any advanced training apart from what they may have learned during military/police service.

Secondly, I do not wish to be personal since I am very new here but you clearly have no understanding of protective engineering, Hashoo group (owners of Marriott chain) invested millions of dollars into making the hotel as safe as possible, there was everything from explosive detection dogs to these anti ram devices which are state of the art and used by the US DOD (Department of Defence), the drums did work, the stopped the truck dead in its tracks, can you imagine the carnage if that thing had entered the lobby?

In addition the building was given sacrificial walls to protect the internal structure in case of blasts or earthquakes, the glass around the building facade was laminated with 3M Blast Protection film and the building had a three layered security screening process (ordinary cars cannot enter the Marriott - you have to park outside near to the side entrance).

The only problem the facility was located on a busy road and there was no way the planners could create significant stand off distance to protect from such a massive device.

FYI: Standoff is a term used for calculating the safe distance from the effects for explosive devices)

The US BATFE(Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives) estimates that the minimum safe stand off distance required for such a device is an estimated 1,240Feet, whereas the distance between the entrance and the lobby is a mere 70ft designed to provide standoff cover from pipe bombs and other small fragmentation devices.

Given the size and construction of the device (Thermite enhanced 600Kg of RDX and TNT) there was no way any protective system could have affectively mitigate the potentially devastating damage from such a device.

 

[Spring Onion]

What do you mean?

The BLA people warned the Army about the explosives, or after they caught the explosives?

After they caught the explosive the BLA elements were angry over this operation by army and FC.

 

[Spring Onion]

Munir:

Maybe a barrier is not enough... Maybe they should even ake a fort where no big trucks are allowed to enter... And then atleast security trained to eliminate terrorist and certainly not seaching for a single anti fire equipment


Looking at the movie I am amazed how pathetic the security is. It would have been fast killing of the driver. Pulling away of the truck. Not walking around for 4 minutes.

Sorry sir but you are wrong, it was not Marriott security that failed but the state services including intelligence, police including traffic and special branch and military intelligence assets.

The hotel security team were not the problem; you are forgetting that as far as the corporate security team of Marriott was concerned they did everything in their power to assist.

They were trying to prevent the fire from escalating and this is standard procedure and common sense, they took immense risk to personal safety to do this selfless act I doubt many would consider doing this when only moments before someone tried to blow you up.

These ordinary security guards working for private companies earn 4,500 - 6,000 rupees a month and do not receive any advanced training apart from what they may have learned during military/police service.

Secondly, I do not wish to be personal since I am very new here but you clearly have no understanding of protective engineering, Hashoo group (owners of Marriott chain) invested millions of dollars into making the hotel as safe as possible, these anti ram devices are state of the art and used by the US DOD (Department of Defence), the drums did work, the stopped the truck dead in its tracks, can you imagine the carnage if that thing had entered the lobby?

In addition the building was given sacrificial walls to protect the internal structure in case of blasts or earthquakes, the glass around the building facade was laminated with 3M Blast Protection film and the building had a three layered security screening process (ordinary cars cannot enter the Marriott - you have to park outside near to the side entrance).

The only problem the facility was located on a busy road and there was no way the planners could create significant stand off distance to protect from such a massive device.

FYI: Standoff is a term used for calculating the safe distance from the effects for explosive devices)

The US BATFE(Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives) estimates that the minimum safe stand off distance required for such a device is an estimated 1,240Feet, whereas the distance between the entrance and the lobby is a mere 70ft designed to provide standoff cover from pipe bombs and other small fragmentation devices.

Given the size and construction of the device (Thermite enhanced 600Kg of RDX and TNT) there was no way any protective system could have affectively mitigate the potentially devastating damage from such a device.

Yes agreed with you.

The problem is once the explosive and the explosive human get in it is difficult to stop suicide attack.

Again iwould say we need to reach to the source of these explosive and then we will be able to plug loopholes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

After they caught the explosive the BLA elements were angry over this operation by army and FC.

BLA elements in government? Or are you referring to the organization of the BLA?

What nutjobs - interdict explosives and the militants get upset.

It doesn't look like the ceasefire in Baluchistan will come to a good end either.

 

[IceCold]

Well even if you buy such equipment how will you use it on a person who is wearing a suicide explosive belt???

As soon as you try to detect using that equipment the suicide bomber will blew himself and tell me how many of the people we can check among hunderds of people on roads and streets.

We need to check every vhicle at every entry point and every toll plaza.
Plus above all we need to utilize the NDRA tracking system.
Trust me their tracking is system is of class.

Well that is the whole point. What i meant was that this equipment should be installed like on tool plazas and other checks and in places where there is no clue that the equipment is there. When the suecide bomber or for that matter the truck will pass, it will beep to the control tower and hence the security personal will get the time to netrualize it before it can reach the target. A few foiled attempts and the suecide bombers will be forced to think of something else. Right now it seems to damn easy for them to just go and blow themselves up at the gate.

 

[Spring Onion]

BLA elements in government? Or are you referring to the organization of the BLA?

What nutjobs - interdict explosives and the militants get upset.

It doesn't look like the ceasefire in Baluchistan will come to a good end either.

Well will PM you who they are.

The BLA people in the governement got upset as they are one with those who transport and explode it to harm Pakistan.
After the explosive was caught by law enforcement personel, a high ranking BLA government functionry of Balochistan handed over list of all Punjabi officers of Army and FC to the BLA terrorist squad for target killing.

and lolzz what ceasefire???
If you are talking about that statment by terrorist BLA well after that just the next day they had exploded a gasline and accepted responsibility for bomb blast in bazaar.

Its unfortuante that zardari just to stop ML-Q from forming government in Balochistan brought BLA people onboard there.

All of arrested terrorist of BLA were released soon after formation of government in Balochistan.
These are elements who are active once again and this time they have split BLA into more demnominations and now they operating under three names.

 

[RescueRanger]

Sometime back there was an article posted here that Pakistan will buy equipment from CHina that can detect sueside belt. What happened to that? Also around sensitive installations, there should be some sort of equipment placed in distance which could detect any kind of explosive which might be passing around to hit the senstive target area. Only then can these suecide trucks could be detected and netrualized before they can ever hit the target.

Firstly,

If this device is purchased it will most likely end up being used in the secretariat or PM house only, just like the body orifice scanner they purchased back in 2005.

I know the device you are referring to but the device is not Chinese at least not the one being considered by the CTP, ISI. In essence the device is a giant camera called SPO-20 and what makes it unique is its ability to use passive millimetre wave technology and automates the detection of threats in high traffic areas at distances of up to 20 metres.

Benefits for using it:

• Long range gives operators crucial time to decide on appropriate action
• Detects a wide range of materials including components of IEDs
• A simple green light/red light console alerts operators of potential threats immediately

If purchased and implemented this system will provide operators the crucial minutes to take necessary action like shoot the damn lunatic before s/he has the chance to deliver the deadly payload.

But I want to reiterate, none of this will replace good old intelligence all this fancy equipment is only a complement to adequate planning and competent ground work by our boys in IB, MI, SB, ISI etc...

 

[RescueRanger]

Yes agreed with you.

The problem is once the explosive and the explosive human get in it is difficult to stop suicide attack.

Again iwould say we need to reach to the source of these explosive and then we will be able to plug loopholes.

Yes Jana, you are 100% right. We are becoming to reliant on Technology as the magical saviour, whilst it will complement a well established HUMINT: Human Intelligence and Counter Intelligence/Terrorism strategy executed by Intelligence it will never replace human beings on the ground getting the job done.

Salam,

 

[Neo]

To further continue on that line of thought - similar posts on similar thread, that accuse the Indian institutions of killing their own people to blame Pakistan or some other such idiotic conspiracy, as has been done on this thread by some Indians against the ISI, will not be tolerated.

These terrorist attacks are tragedies, and Pakistani members need to realize that Indians will have the same emotions about such events, and the views posted, as Pakistanis would - 'so do unto others as you would have done unto you'

In addition to AM's post, here's what I have to say:

Management is aware of trolling from both sides and this has to stop!
We donot take "banning requests" as we're getting from several members nor do we allow anyone to question our integrity or neutral moderation.

Forum rules are clear and apply to anyone regardless his/her nationality. If you have problem with the rules or moderation, please do not threaten us to leave the forum, just do it!

Neo

 

[Spring Onion]

To tackle this problem following things can be checked...
1. Strong Aniti Terror Law (I suspect if there exist any?)
2. Remove radical elements from ISI to function it in better ways.. I can 100% bet on ISI they can handle it..
3. Army's Involvement is very critical to crush terror outfit along PAK-Afghan border..
4. For pakistani people..Stop seeing India as a enemy.. We both can help each other to counter this..

mr ngold please save your blam game for some other forum. Its a request as you are again resorting to BS allegations against Army and ISI.


Mods should take care of it.
--------------

Rest as far as though anti-terror laws well i dont think so that solve the matter.

Rather in many cases such laws only harm innocent people.
just like POTA and TADA In India.

All we need to eleminate the elements at precent fighting against the state and also check transportation and origion of the explosive.

As far as use of local teenage boys as suicide bombers by terrorist, we have come to some information about their methods and the people behind it both internal and external.

We also have come to know the kind of medicines being applied on these teenage boys and who is providing these medicines.
Hence now on this front some progress might be made once things calm down.