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ISI ordered journalist's murder - More US Propaganda?

dude , do american's know what CIA is doing or who are CIA agent's ?, do INDIANS know what raw is doing and who are raw agent's ? so whats the big deal in that, you are trying really hard to glorify ISI , but the fact is that , it is directly responsible for all the mess your nation is in right now.

There is still common knowledge of the inner workings of the CIA here in America, even for common people like me. For example: there is a video of an ex-CIA agent explaining her job available on the internet.


You would never find out anything about an ex-ISI agent or a serving one, nothing about their identities or their job descriptions. In the CIA, their job descriptions are mentioned on the website. There is no way a Pakistani civilian wanting to apply to the ISI can get in touch with them, they get in touch with the applicant in 'their own way'. It's a little bit different in the CIA, their processes are a lot more out in the open than the ISI's, whether that is for selection or anything else. No one is glorifying the ISI here, just stating the facts.
 
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Let me also point out to all these ISI/PA bashers, that it was under a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP that the Pakistani media was allowed to expand and became independent and free, and allowed all shades of opinion. Even when Musharraf was losing power and the media completely against him, the military and intelligence (then with Kayani as DG ISI) did not take the sorts of actions being taken now.

It was under the civilian governments of Nawaz and Bhutto that the media was kept confined and pressured through control of State advertising, and Sethi was in fact picked up and tortured by Nawaz earlier in his career.

Is is surprising then, that after almost a decade of unrestricted expansion and freedom under MILITARY RULE, it is under civilian rule that journalists are being targeted again, Geo's Sports channel was sanctioned and taken off air to pressure the Jang Group.

Those arguing that the 'Military and Intelligence have a history of violence against the media' are distorting facts and ignoring the Military's role in helping the media expand and have the freedom it currently does, and they are ignoring the fact that much of the past violence against journalists was in fact at the behest of the civilian governments, who cannot bear coverage and criticizm of their corruption and ineptitude.
 
What do Haider, Cheema and Mir know? Even they are speculating and voicing their 'suspicions' on who they think is responsible. None of them has any actual evidence or reason to blame the ISI.

Even if we believe that they have no evidence, they must be doing it with some strong conviction. Does that not bothers you? A journalist, and not just one, is directly blaming country's premier intelligence service with some serious charges and with so much conviction that they have gone to the courts. Then your WoT ally comes up the same charges with even more conviction.

It makes you no less guilty of suppression of voice when you still believe that there can be smoke without fire.
 
Sethi is nothing but an ASW, he said ISI came to know of OBL operation by watching Geo News. (bcaz he was associated with Geo News at that time, otherwise he must have said Dunya / Aaj / Dawn News :lol:)

Hamid Mir....hmm....he is still defending the tape which was aired revealing his contacts with Taliban.
 
Conviction without evidence is nothing. Besides, intelligence agencies are known for notoriety. The CIA was accused of assassinating J.F Kennedy as well, for refusing to go through with Operation Northwoods.
 
Let me also point out to all these ISI/PA bashers, that it was under a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP that the Pakistani media was allowed to expand and became independent and free, and allowed all shades of opinion. Even when Musharraf was losing power and the media completely against him, the military and intelligence (then with Kayani as DG ISI) did not take the sorts of actions being taken now.

It was under the civilian governments of Nawaz and Bhutto that the media was kept confined and pressured through control of State advertising, and Sethi was in fact picked up and tortured by Nawaz earlier in his career.

Is is surprising then, that after almost a decade of unrestricted expansion and freedom under MILITARY RULE, it is under civilian rule that journalists are being targeted again, Geo's Sports channel was sanctioned and taken off air to pressure the Jang Group.

Those arguing that the 'Military and Intelligence have a history of violence against the media' are distorting facts and ignoring the Military's role in helping the media expand and have the freedom it currently does, and they are ignoring the fact that much of the past violence against journalists was in fact at the behest of the civilian governments, who cannot bear coverage and criticizm of their corruption and ineptitude.


Very good response.

This ISI bashing started when all the CIA contractors kicked from Pakistan and those who are still in Pakistan are facing hurdles from ISI for achievement of their 'goals' which 'Lord RD' could not do.

So this is very natural on part of US using the media as always, and that media always comes with 'un-known' sources.
 
Sethi is nothing but an ASW, he said ISI came to know of OBL operation by watching Geo News. (bcaz he was associated with Geo News at that time, otherwise he must have said Dunya / Aaj / Dawn News :lol:)

Hamid Mir....hmm....he is still defending the tape which was aired revealing his contacts with Taliban.

you are missing his main point there .doesent matter it is duniya or geo , ISI din't knew about the operation , instead of understanding this point you are giving a silly argument
 
Let me also point out to all these ISI/PA bashers, that it was under a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP that the Pakistani media was allowed to expand and became independent and free, and allowed all shades of opinion. Even when Musharraf was losing power and the media completely against him, the military and intelligence (then with Kayani as DG ISI) did not take the sorts of actions being taken now.

It was under the civilian governments of Nawaz and Bhutto that the media was kept confined and pressured through control of State advertising, and Sethi was in fact picked up and tortured by Nawaz earlier in his career.

Is is surprising then, that after almost a decade of unrestricted expansion and freedom under MILITARY RULE, it is under civilian rule that journalists are being targeted again, Geo's Sports channel was sanctioned and taken off air to pressure the Jang Group.

Those arguing that the 'Military and Intelligence have a history of violence against the media' are distorting facts and ignoring the Military's role in helping the media expand and have the freedom it currently does, and they are ignoring the fact that much of the past violence against journalists was in fact at the behest of the civilian governments, who cannot bear coverage and criticizm of their corruption and ineptitude.

For your claims of military piousness, this is from embassy:

ID: 111138 6/6/2007 14:40 07ISLAMABAD2526 Embassy Islamabad CONFIDENTIAL 07ISLAMABAD2494 “VZCZCXRO7283
OO RUEHDBU RUEHLH RUEHPW
DE RUEHIL #2526/01 1571440
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
O 061440Z JUN 07
FM AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 9663
INFO RUEHTA/AMEMBASSY ASTANA PRIORITY 0181
RUEHEK/AMEMBASSY BISHKEK PRIORITY 4227
RUEHLM/AMEMBASSY COLOMBO PRIORITY 1334
RUEHKA/AMEMBASSY DHAKA PRIORITY 2101
RUEHDBU/AMEMBASSY DUSHANBE PRIORITY
RUEHBUL/AMEMBASSY KABUL PRIORITY 7163
RUEHKT/AMEMBASSY KATHMANDU PRIORITY 8393
RUEHLO/AMEMBASSY LONDON PRIORITY 5751
RUEHNE/AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI PRIORITY 1083
RUEHNT/AMEMBASSY TASHKENT PRIORITY 3258
RUEHKP/AMCONSUL KARACHI PRIORITY 6309
RUEHLH/AMCONSUL LAHORE PRIORITY 2531
RUEHPW/AMCONSUL PESHAWAR PRIORITY 0884
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHDC PRIORITY
RHMFISS/CDR USCENTCOM MACDILL AFB FL PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
RUEHNO/USMISSION USNATO PRIORITY 2438
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY” “C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 ISLAMABAD 002526

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/06/2017
TAGS: PGOV, PHUM, PREL, PK
SUBJECT: WHAT HAPPENED TO PRESS FREEDOM IN PAKISTAN?

REF: A. ISLAMABAD 2494

B. STATE 77589
C. ISLAMABAD 1354

Classified By: Charge d’Affaires Peter Bodde for reasons 1.4(b), (d)

1. (C) On March 24, President Musharraf told Ambassador Crocker that Musharraf intended to fire the head of the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Agency (PEMRA), whose heavy handed interventions during the early stages of the Chief Justice controversy had been “unhelpful and wrong” (ref C). Indeed, after PEMRA interfered with GEO television broadcasts in early March, Minister of Information Durrani apologized, and after the police stormed the Islamabad offices of GEO television and broke expensive equipment, Musharraf apologized. The apologies, and subsequent affirmations that the government was completely committed to press freedom, were accompanied by actions indicating the government was sincere. During the March 24 meeting, Musharraf even stated he was planning to hire a public relations expert to help Information Minister Durrani better package the government’s message to Paksitan’s vibrant press.

2. (C) So why, if on March 24 the government supported press freedom, on June 1 did it begin to seriously restrict those liberties? The hypotheses revolve around three events.

MAY 12: THE POWER OF LIVE TELEVISION

3. (C) Live coverage of the May 12 bloodshed in Karachi, including footage of people slowly bleeding to death while ambulances were unable to move past overturned vehicles and other roadblocks, shocked Pakistan. Commentators on the scene reported that no police could be seen on the street.

As the live reporting progressed, journalists continuously restated rumors that the MQM city government had ordered officers off the street or had ordered that they not carry weapons. The images of May 12 damaged the government, as MQM is a coalition partner.

PROTEST RALLIES: THE COVERAGE GOES ON ALL DAY

4. (C) Live coverage of the various Chief Justice rallies also bothered the government. Camera angles often made crowds shouting anti-Musharraf slogans appear larger than they were. The Chief Justice’s practice of taking hours and hours to drive slowly to the site of the rallies means that the live coverage often lasts the entirety of a Saturday.

Some government officials believe that certain reporters are purposefully manipulating coverage of the rallies to build the morale of the opposition parties.

CRITICIZING THE ARMY: IT’S JUST NOT DONE HERE

5. (C) The last straw, in terms of rallies, appears to have been a Saturday, May 26 gathering when several speakers uncharacteristically offered execeptionally harsh comments about the army and about Musharraf’s failure to remove his uniform. Army officials are not used to being criticised, especially on live television.

SO WHO IS BEHIND THE CRACKDOWN?

6. (C) In short, everyone is trying to pin the blame on someone else. Federal Minister of Railways Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, an unofficial government spokesman, told us June 5 that he supported the crackdown. According to him, reports denigrating the army affected the morale of soldiers serving in difficult missions such as in South Waziristan. He said that the army was a sensitive institution that took negative comments very personally. (Note: President Musharraf has often made this same point to visiting Congressional delegations. End note.) Pakistan Muslim League President

ISLAMABAD 00002526 002 OF 002

Chaudrhay Shujaat Hussain told us June 1 that the military was being overly sensitive, and that they should realize that people were going to use increased freedom to vent frustrations. According to Shujaat, the crackdown on the media was a result of pressure from senior military officers.

Meanwhile, Embassy military colleagues report that their contacts claim to oppose cracking down on the press. Many military officers say they simply want the Chief Justice controversy to end without causing further harm to Pakistan’s reputation.

7. (C) One persistent claim — by government officials, opposition politicians, and journalists — is that senior military figures in ISI and Military Intelligence, especially Director General for ISI Kiyani, are the strongest proponents of the media crackdown. These same interlocutors, though, can present no concrete reason the intelligence agencies would choose now to try to restrict the press. When blame is hard to place and an easy explanation is elusive, standard Pakistani practice is to blame the intelligence agencies.

8. (C) COMMENT: In light of the serious attention this issue continues to attract, we should remain constant in reminding the government of Pakistan that their actions to restrict press freedom can only serve to undercut their own short- and long-term political best interests. END COMMENT.

BODDE “

2007: Crackdown on press freedom in Pakistan
 
Very good response.

This ISI bashing started when all the CIA contractors kicked from Pakistan and those who are still in Pakistan are facing hurdles from ISI for achievement of their 'goals' which 'Lord RD' could not do.

So this is very natural on part of US using the media as always, and that media always comes with 'un-known' sources.

yeah and the media persons will risk facing threat from ISI , and put their life's and their families life's in danger just to earn some american dollar's , nice theory. Do you have any evidence or proof to justify this B.S
 
This is a good read as well:

The press in Pakistan has changed enormously over the last two decades but the threats to it have not diminished. If anything, they have multiplied and become more complex than in the past.

Before the 1990s, the main, or perhaps the single most important, source of threats to the freedom of the press was the state and the government. In the era of controlled import and distribution of newsprint through government quotas, strictly regulated and centralised mechanism for allowing new newspapers and periodicals to come out, use of government ads as a political tool of control and subjugation and the hyperactive censorship departments clipping away everything that had any real or perceived impact on the issues even vaguely related to national security and stability – the press never needed any other threat to feel that its freedom across the national polity was bound in chains.

Reporters and editors were frequently arrested, sometimes beaten up and tortured and occasionally even sentenced for making available too much information when it was in the so-called interest of the state to keep it to the minimum.

This monopoly of the state officials and state departments to use power of intimidation – economic or otherwise – and employ force to have their way changed in the 1990s, though for the worse.

After the violent militaristic turn that Pakistan went through under the self-proclaimed religiously guided military dictatorship of General Zia ul Haq, the press witnessed the emergence of many Islamic, sectarian – even jihadist – and ethnic groups a la the Mohajir Qaumi Movement, which brooked no difference and tolerated no criticism even when done constructively.

Torching newspapers before they were distributed, beating up reporters inside their homes and work places, attacking newspaper offices and every now and then murdering journalists became a fashionable way of suppressing the press’s right and freedom to know and inform.

While all this was developing into a troubling trend, the government never took a backseat in its attempts to muzzle the press as much as it could, mostly using the quotas of official ads to intimidate newspapers and editors into submission.

Since the 2000s, the government has lost most, if not all, levers of control. The infamous Press and Publications Ordinance – that regulated, monitored and punished the press through issuing and revocation of publication licences – has been done away with.

Trade liberalisation had ended the government’s control over the import of newsprint and the evolution of a privatised, market-driven economy – in contrast to the one owned by the stat and run by the government that held sway in Pakistan before the 1990s – meant that quota regime on newsprint and ads no longer made sense as mechanisms for controlling the press.

Any newspaper with money in its coffers can import as much newsprint as it needs and private segments of the economy have become significant enough players to provide the press with a major chunk of its ad revenues.

However, this has not deterred the government from trying to gag the newspapers, intimidate the editors and attack the reporters. But its attempts through such means have become much less successful than in the past. So, perhaps to make up for that lost capacity, the security agencies have increased their potential and capability to threaten and harm the members of the press and in many instances have been directly involved in the torture, abductions, arrests and even murders of some reporters – especially in the tribal areas, Balochistan and some parts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa — over the last ten years or so.

The threats to the press from political, ethnic, religious, sectarian and militant groups, in the meanwhile, have also become more numerous and complicated – mainly because of the fragmentation among these groups but also because of the simultaneous decrease in their ability to stand criticism and increase in their power to silence their critics. Like the Mohajir Qaumi Movement split into two factions and religious, sectarian and militant groups have spawned divisions within divisions among themselves, espousing and promoting all kinds of religious and semi-religious causes on the back of their venomous ideologies and even more lethal propensity to use violence as a weapon to propagate and promote those ideologies.

In such circumstances, the press increasingly finds itself on the defensive on a number of issues that have been controversial in Pakistan since 1947, or may be even earlier. One group’s ‘martyr’ is other group’s ‘devil’. Keeping the balance among conflicting – rather violently clashing – political, ethnic, sectarian and militant narratives, agendas and slogans has become the ultimate test for the press to keep itself safe as well as free in the face of such mounting challenges. This is indeed what walking on the eggshells means.

Two major developments over the last decade or so have also contributed enormously to constricting the freedom of the press. One is the mushrooming of terrorist organisations and their consequent war with the state and the government. Threatened by the terrorists and squeezed by the state, the press continues to oscillate between the two sides while struggling to find a middle course where it can not just protect itself and its workers but also guarantee that its operations remain free from any fear or favor.

The terrorists and the state’s security forces have, in fact, made large swathes of Pakistan’s territory a press-free zone. They are also imposing many ideological, theoretical and policy restrictions as well to make it increasingly difficult for the press to maintain its freedom without compromising its safety and vice versa. Sometimes the only information that becomes available is either provided by the terrorists or their nemesis in the state and more often than not it is either incomplete or distorted if not completely false.

The second development is the transformation in the ways and means to transfer information with the advent of the internet and the mushrooming of news-based television channels. Though this ‘boom’ has benefited the Pakistani press enormously by allowing it to get exposed to international trends, providing opportunities to editors and reporters – both virtually and physically – to travel to other countries, interact with their counterparts and learn new things, its ‘beneficiaries’ have been only a few and far in between the thousands of new entrants to the press corps, raw from their colleges and universities.

What was once a government-regulated sector in terms of salaries, perks and working conditions of the employees through wage board awards has become a market-driven industry with a perpetually revolving door, with little concern for the exploitative terms and conditions that most of the younger members of the press have to accept to get and keep their jobs. The absence of job security has seriously compromised their ability to maintain their freedom to report and publish on issues that may rubs their publishers and bosses the wrong way.

A side effect of this phenomenon has been the utter lack of professional training for the new entrants into the press and their consequent failure to report on the complex issues with a combination of discretion and informed restraint. More than once, such lack of professional skills and the absence of an informed understanding of the issues have resulted in a reporter or an editor finding him or her on the wrong side of many a powerful interest.

The absence of professional oversight and the sheer disregard of the need to provide them the required social, ethno-linguistic, religious, sectarian as well as political and economic context to their work have led to many instances where reporters and editors may have exercised too much of freedom and indiscretion at the cost of professionalism and restraint. In many instances, they have ended up with bloody noses and bruised faces.

Sometimes this has led to even bigger atrocities and brutalities committed against them which raise the issue of their safety and how the employers have singularly failed to guarantee that. There are virtually no editorial guidelines available to the members of the press working in hostile environments, cases of the employers providing medical and legal aid to the reporters and editors falling victims to intimidation and violence are rare, if any at all, and there is a woeful shortage of safety equipment for those operating from the scene of a gunfire, a bomb blast or a violent public protest.

We certainly have more newspapers, magazines and TV channels and consequently more people working for them. But undoubtedly such numbers are yet to become the critical mass required to ensure the safety and the freedom of the press in the face of all the multiple challenges discussed above.

By no means, the freedom of the press in Pakistan can be guaranteed by raising full-throated slogans to mark the World Press Freedom Day. It is a long drawn out battle that has only half begun.

The pressing need for freedom
 
Even if we believe that they have no evidence, they must be doing it with some strong conviction. Does that not bothers you? A journalist, and not just one, is directly blaming country's premier intelligence service with some serious charges and with so much conviction that they have gone to the courts. Then your WoT ally comes up the same charges with even more conviction.

It makes you no less guilty of suppression of voice when you still believe that there can be smoke without fire.
It does bother me that they are maligning a national institution on the basis of speculation and conspiracy theories.
 
PEMRA is currently under the control of the Zardari led PPP, not the ISI/PA, so the blame for the current crackdown on the media needs to shift there as well.

7. (C) One persistent claim — by government officials, opposition politicians, and journalists — is that senior military figures in ISI and Military Intelligence, especially Director General for ISI Kiyani, are the strongest proponents of the media crackdown. These same interlocutors, though, can present no concrete reason the intelligence agencies would choose now to try to restrict the press. When blame is hard to place and an easy explanation is elusive, standard Pakistani practice is to blame the intelligence agencies.

Then, as in now, "These same interlocutors, though, can present no concrete reason the intelligence agencies would choose now to try to restrict the press. When blame is hard to place and an easy explanation is elusive, standard Pakistani practice is to blame the intelligence agencies."
 
yeah and the media persons will risk facing threat from ISI , and put their life's and their families life's in danger just to earn some american dollar's , nice theory. Do you have any evidence or proof to justify this B.S

Why ask us for proof, when you and these journalists haven't provided any to back up their own allegations?

Apply the same standards for the accuser as well as the accused/defence.
 
It does bother me that they are maligning a national institution on the basis of speculation and conspiracy theories.

Right, classic example of everyone looking at the hole in the ground and one looking at the ground. Pakistan must have some treasure trove for which its military, administration and intelligence are sought after in the whole world, though of course not in the usual way.

You should instead be bothered your national institutions falling in the wrong hands.
 
PEMRA is currently under the control of the Zardari led PPP, not the ISI/PA, so the blame for the current crackdown on the media needs to shift there as well.



Then, as in now, "These same interlocutors, though, can present no concrete reason the intelligence agencies would choose now to try to restrict the press. When blame is hard to place and an easy explanation is elusive, standard Pakistani practice is to blame the intelligence agencies."

You must have also duly noted the date. It seems much has changed in 2011.
 

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