Is Turkey the role model?

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Forget the qasim guy. If you read his posts, you can see a pattern. All he does is keep talking about the end of every other idealogy and creation of an islamic world. Its weird, every topic somehow ends up with the ressurection of the caliphate with this guy.

On topic- i think turkey is a great role model. The secular form of governence ensures sanity prevails while protecting the sanctity of islam and other faiths.

What a stupid comment... Why talking about the Caliphate is most important when discussing Turkey... anyone who says otherwise is simply not grounded in history and the problems that face Turkey today...

Interestingly you also completely ignore what I posted above... if a little girl is being insulted and not given a due prize simply because she is wearing the Hijab, then what sanity is prevailing there? Have you lost your mind? Is this the sanctity of Islam and other faiths?

I think I should not bother with Indian such as yourself... at the end of the day I dont hide the fact that I stand for the reestablishment of Islam and Caliphate and am willing to discuss... Morons such as yourself cant discuss so all they can do is say things like... oh forget this guy qasim...

I do point out to all Muslims on this forum... see how troubled and agitated they get with the mention of the Caliphate... Thats the one thing that they fear most, and those who keep an eye out on Indian intelligence agencies know I m saying the truth...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

You know so little, yet you write a lot about Turkey and its politics. Interestingly enough, those who you claim to use Islam and so many others in Turkey who identify themselves with Kemalist ideology may agree with you, still tries to join EU for the sake of its democratic and humanistic approaches to individuals. Now, if you think Caliphate is the best way to govern people, fine, you can want all you want, for your country. I don't go on to preach you about how Pakistan should be governed or how it shouldn't. You probably know better than I do. But lets be clear about one universal right; if you don't put prosperity and freedom of individual, that system is on the brink of failure.

Turkey is pregnant to all those individualistic approaches to its civilians. Denial of the past is not very useful and not logical. But, you can't judge a country by mistakes of its past actions.

Also, Adnan Hoca is a crook, nothing more.

Bro... dont get emotional... You are not addressing what I have presented to you here... Dont you think there is something horribly wrong with a country when a little girl is not even allowed to obey Allah by wearing a piece of a cloth on her head... if Turkey is so advanced why punish her like this? Why is it that your so called Islamist government jails people whose sole crime is discussion about the Caliphate...

Maybe you get me wrong... In so many ways I love Turkey more than I love my own country of Pakistan... and I agree with you that people should be given prosperity and freedom of thought... I am against Turkey joining the EU and want Turkey to join with other Muslim countries... Like it or not... no matter how secularist you become, the west hates you just because you are the grandsons and grand daughters of the noble Ottomans... Let us not deny the past here... Reclaim the glory that was given to you by Allah... all is well bro... we are with you in more ways than you can think... inshaAllah

 

[ovarel]

Bro... dont get emotional... You are not addressing what I have presented to you here... Dont you think there is something horribly wrong with a country when a little girl is not even allowed to obey Allah by wearing a piece of a cloth on her head... if Turkey is so advanced why punish her like this? Why is it that your so called Islamist government jails people whose sole crime is discussion about the Caliphate...

Maybe you get me wrong... In so many ways I love Turkey more than I love my own country of Pakistan... and I agree with you that people should be given prosperity and freedom of thought... I am against Turkey joining the EU and want Turkey to join with other Muslim countries... Like it or not... no matter how secularist you become, the west hates you just because you are the grandsons and grand daughters of the noble Ottomans... Let us not deny the past here... Reclaim the glory that was given to you by Allah... all is well bro... we are with you in more ways than you can think... inshaAllah

bro..its not because we fall in love with the west and trying to be seem "cute" to them..good relations with both the east and the west is in Turkeys interest..we also know how the west regards the ottomans and turks..on the the other hand,westophiles in Turkey are very few..so its not about some kind of love but interest..its good to have a vision of caliphate,i also do have it..but one needs to see the material structures..in the short term,its impossible for Turkey..i dont know what to say more.

the hijab girl punishment is disgusting,i hate it maybe more than you do..and it will change..it must be changed.

also you are blaming gul and erdogan..its obvious that you are not aware of the dynamics of Turkey..those guys are doing well so far.

and yes,the west and india etc dont like the idea of united ummah..but its not avoidable,they will face it someday..however,its obviously not the time.we have to take a long way.

 

[Majnun]

Let me put this in simple words for you. Turkey, KSA, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, afganistan or any other muslim nation that was created under the authority of British empire can not be a Islamic role model. Such nations dont deserve to be called Islamic state since Islam is a perfect system and nothing can truly represent it.

Please provide examples of successful Islamic states.

 

[Majnun]

Ataturk was pampered by British empire and it was their demand to abolish Kalifa which was in its worst form during that time.

If Ataturk hadn't removed the Sultanate, the British would have. To ensure the survival of Turkey, the Turkish government had to work in interests of world powers such as Britain at the time. Anyways, what had the Sultanate done to justify its continued existence?

 

[Saithan]

hm... I am currently reading a book about the Grand Turk (Conqueror of istanbul), sadly it's written by a foreigner, but at least it's a starting point.

From what I see there was a general trend of having babies with concubines of different nationalities. So yes Turks have had sultans of different ethnicity. However they all worked towards their goals, beating back enemies and invading them as punishment. This trend has hopefully come to an end.

I am making an assumption based on what I've read so far. The reason why the ottoman empire may have come to and end is due to allowing too many people of different ethnicity into powerful positions. This is a very rough assumption of course.

But at the end of the day you have to look at how the "calliph" behaves and such. I believe the time has run out from the idea of having one ruler above all. As a muslim you pray directly to Allah, so who the F*** are you to tell me that we need a calliph or a calliphate. Seyülislam (sheikh ul-islam) must be separate from state because at the end of the day every single politician, calliph, president, Prime minister, king are greedy bastards.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

hm... I am currently reading a book about the Grand Turk (Conqueror of istanbul), sadly it's written by a foreigner, but at least it's a starting point.

From what I see there was a general trend of having babies with concubines of different nationalities. So yes Turks have had sultans of different ethnicity. However they all worked towards their goals, beating back enemies and invading them as punishment. This trend has hopefully come to an end.

I am making an assumption based on what I've read so far. The reason why the ottoman empire may have come to and end is due to allowing too many people of different ethnicity into powerful positions. This is a very rough assumption of course.

But at the end of the day you have to look at how the "calliph" behaves and such. I believe the time has run out from the idea of having one ruler above all. As a muslim you pray directly to Allah, so who the F*** are you to tell me that we need a calliph or a calliphate. Seyülislam (sheikh ul-islam) must be separate from state because at the end of the day every single politician, calliph, president, Prime minister, king are greedy bastards.

Dude, that's so wrong. Every politician is not some greedy bastard, some are visionary. And, why do you curse at him if he wants a Sharia? Did'nt Allah through his holy book quran tell use to live under his rule? Who ARE YOU to tell otherwise?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If Ataturk hadn't removed the Sultanate, the British would have. To ensure the survival of Turkey, the Turkish government had to work in interests of world powers such as Britain at the time. Anyways, what had the Sultanate done to justify its continued existence?

If Ataturk had removed Sultanate of that time and improved the Khalifa system only then he would have my support. But he used Khalifa at one of its worst form to justify Kufr system of Secularism (Separation of state from religion) over Muslims. Ataturk made Britis job much easy because Turks have their own leader to follow where as if it was Britian who had installed this new systems on their own then Turks would eventually realize and change the system on their own.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Please provide examples of successful Islamic states.

Its in Quran Hadis and Sunnah only. You wont find a successful Islamic state anywhere. A better term would be Muslim state because a Muslim can have many flaws but Islam cant! Nothing can truly represent Islam so this idea of calling States "Islamic" is total failure.

 

[Saithan]

Dude, that's so wrong. Every politician is not some greedy bastard, some are visionary. And, why do you curse at him if he wants a Sharia? Did'nt Allah through his holy book quran tell use to live under his rule? Who ARE YOU to tell otherwise?

That was a pretty weak argument you came with Zulk, you seem to have missed my point that everyone is fallible. Everyone starts with a vision and the longer they stay in power the bigger the chance of messing up things. And like Myth says, no one and nothing can truly represent islam properly, they're all full of flaws.

You can live by the laws of sharia, and stone people when they commit a crime that requires that, but is that really the true meaning and purpose of sharia ? I don't know, do you ?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That was a pretty weak argument you came with Zulk, you seem to have missed my point that everyone is fallible. Everyone starts with a vision and the longer they stay in power the bigger the chance of messing up things. And like Myth says, no one and nothing can truly represent islam properly, they're all full of flaws.

You can live by the laws of sharia, and stone people when they commit a crime that requires that, but is that really the true meaning and purpose of sharia ? I don't know, do you ?

But it does not mean we should not be following Islam.

Prophet Mohammed PBUH said:
"There are two types among the people of Hell whom I have not yet seen. The first are people who have whips like the tails of oxen, with which they beat people, and the second are women who are naked in spite of being dressed;

In today's world of so called Sharia where the prime goal is to whip people for any reason while they have left out much of Islam behind their backs. This hadis perfectly describes that situation.

 

[Kambojaric]

If Ataturk hadn't removed the Sultanate, the British would have. To ensure the survival of Turkey, the Turkish government had to work in interests of world powers such as Britain at the time. Anyways, what had the Sultanate done to justify its continued existence?

Im not sure they would have removed it, they would have just made sure to humiliate the Sultan in any way possible, whilst keeping him in "power". We know this from how they treated our Sultans. Bahadur Shah??? Ring any bells? Though im no big fan of Ataturk when it comes to domestic policies it cant be denied what he did for the Turkish state to survive and give it the choice it is making today as to whether it wants to a more "islamic" country or "western oriented" country. If it werent for Ataturk, eastern Turkey would be Armenia today, Western Turkey would be Greek, even Istanbul wouldnt be Turkish anymore.

 

[clmeta]

The model state should not be on the basis of caliphate/secularism/kuffr etc etc.
What really matters is the human development index.
And it is Qatar that top scores on that parameter.

 

[silko]

The model state should not be on the basis of caliphate/secularism/kuffr etc etc.
What really matters is the human development index.
And it is Qatar that top scores on that parameter.

what a silly way to choose a role model, atleast when it comes to compare Turkey with Qatar.

i wont make a list and hope you know why!

100th post!

 

[clmeta]

what a silly way to choose a role model, atleast when it comes to compare Turkey with Qatar.

i wont make a list and hope you know why!

100th post!

You are entitled to your opnion and I'm entitled to mine. I think military power, global influence and all these are crap meant to satisfiy egos.
I don't think anything is more imp than HDI. That is what measures the prosperity of a people