Is this true. This is frightening.

[SaadH]

The more frightening is: I see so-called freedom fighters and the people fighting against them(military and intelligence and the so-called establishment), they all end up in the USA, Canada, or Europe.

Why do people of Pakistan get emotional over these things, I don't know. Who is a traitor, who is a patriot, I am yet to decide.
I might see a day when an ex-Pak army general and a Baloch freedom leader take tea in the same hall in a restaurant in Toronto.

This is not only Pakistan's story, it's a South Asia story. No one is a threat until people are weak.

That and more has happened in the past, Mushy while swearing to shoot Altaf if he had a chance due to the latter getting funding and training from Indian RAW, proceeded to patronizing the same RAW trained terrorists.

 

[CIA Mole]

why is this surprising, every country is infiltrated by 5 eyes

 

[SaadH]

FYI

PTI and APML raised billions of rupees in US

MQM and PPP also created firms under American law ISLAMABAD: At least four Pakistani political parties formed firms in the United States of America to finance their campaigns where two of them...

www.thenews.com.pk

Halal fundraising activities in the US?

And what about USAID to the Military?

Now let us come to the truly frightening part.

The Naya Daur part is truly frightening?

Naya Daur is a TV Channel similar to others in Pakistan.

Naya Daur - Projecting Pakistan's Diversity And Pluralism

Projecting Pakistan's Diversity And Pluralism

nayadaur.tv

Let me tell you what is truly frightening.

The emergence of TLP and the sort, capacity of these religiously-motivated entities to influence things in Pakistan with street power tactics, and the spread of religious intolerance in the country.

Saad Rizvi sees TLP as 'kingmaker' in next general elections

“No opposition will be able to function and no party will be able to make government without the support of the TLP,” he says.

www.dawn.com

These are but byproducts of Mullah-appeasing Politics and overdosage of Islam in Public discourses in the absence of a formal Education System which can impart values of Tolerance, Fact-finding and Critical-thinking in the masses.

What became of a Sri Lankan National (a Factory Manager) when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

What became of Mishal Khan when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening - inside a University no less.

What became of a couple when it was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

One should dread the day when he (or she) is accused of blasphemy by somebody. You better be on the run then and there, or a Zombie Horde of pretend-Muslims will come for you and rip you apart in the process.

I find the Religious Persecution part truly frightening.

Every Political force in Pakistan including the Military accepts and benefits from USAID from time-to-time.

Selective criticism is damaging and misleading.

Ironically, the "strain" of Islam leading/abusing the blasphemy charge was the state department's approved sect for cultivation and partnership in the past and as exposed by wikileaks...now that's coming back to haunt Pakistanis.

 

[LeGenD]

Why not just become an American colony, let viceroy of America govern Pakistan. Surely they can solve all the problems.

This is not for your benefit this is to enforce their interests. They will never let you stand on your own feet brown man.

This is exactly what they did in honk Kong or the so called Arab revolution. Governing countries through proxies.

You are too focused on what the USA seems to be doing - providing funds to select Pakistani Political Parties and Media Houses as per the document shared by you. It also gives the impression that the USA is behind the so-called Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) in the country. Are you sure that this is the complete picture? As if Pakistani Political Parties are all innocent and gullible? Many in Pakistan are willing recipients of USAID for political causes and more. When PTI was in the Opposition, it also considered fundraising in the USA to finance its functions and vice versa.

I do not wish Pakistan to become a colony of any country. But what can you do about willing recipients of USAID (and other forms of AID) in Pakistan? Can you stop them all?

Pakistan continues to knock on the door of IMF (and other countries) to escape economic collapse because it failed to create a sustainable economy and neglected its industrial growth. This is due to Pakistan's internal political feuds and corruption in large part. This trend continues in Pakistan.

WE bear witness to the ongoing political fued between the so-called PDM and PTI-led GOP in the present.

And who is responsible for releasing Nawaz Sharif and his stay in London? How come Maryam Nawaz is able to lead PML(N) as convicted person? Why Sugar Mafia cannot be dealt with?

Tareen made rebel group to avoid accountability: PTI leader

Sahibzada Jahangir, the spokesperson for Prime Minister Imran Khan on Trade and Investment in the UK, has claimed that PTI leader Jahangir Tareen launched a rebel group when he was asked to explain hi

www.pakistantoday.com.pk

Do you absolve Imran Khan from his electoral promises and failures?

China offered CPEC to Pakistan but it is not enough because Pakistan's population size continues to increase over time on the other hand. China is doing whatever it can for Pakistan but Pakistan needs to expand the scope of its relations with other countries including USA. There are opportunities for growth that only Americans (or American organizations) can provide to Pakistan.

How is demonizing USA and its institutions for political mileage helpful to Pakistan in any capacity? I shall remind you about tall claims and political rhetoric of Asad Umar against IMF when he was in the Opposition. When the time came for him to do something in the role of Finance Minister - he failed spectacularly. This is the reality of good-for-nothing-loud-mouths in the country.

- - - -

Hong Kong was accustomed to democratic norms under the British. After the British handed over Hong Kong to China, the latter committed to One-China-Two-Systems approach for some years. When the Chinese deep state pushed for amendments in the political system of Hong Kong, this led to protests in said region.

Why I left Hong Kong

The national security law and its chilling effect on our civil liberties compelled me to leave my home.

www.aljazeera.com

To heal Hong Kong, start with the young protesters in jail

Calls for society to reconcile is empty talk unless we have practical action, starting with the thousands of young Hongkongers in jail, many talented and remorseful. At the minimum, restore their university places, encourage companies to look past their convictions and provide counselling and...

www.scmp.com

- - - -

Arab Spring was sparked by Tunisia.

What is the Arab Spring, and how did it start?

Ten years ago, revolts spread like wildfire across the Arab world, spurring events that changed the region.

www.aljazeera.com

Does it surprise you in view of authoritative regimes in the Middle East?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I'm sorry to say but this romanticised version of colonialism, and a historical Indian past will not work any longer. We seriously need to understand the nuances and the factors at play in history. Interpreting history through repeated sound bites is unfair and simply wrong.

This simple interpretation of history has given this region Hindu extremism, the RSS and the BJP fascist government.

The British did not take over India/South Asia with 20,000, it was far less, it increased with time, neither did they take over this so-called India, because India never existed as a country, it's truly a sad and false representation of a nation that never was.

The British took over South Asia/India, a region, by defeating multiple kingdoms in multiple battle. It took them a hundred years to reach Lahore from Calcutta, that's because it never a country. Hence the size differential doesn't come into it.

The kingdoms were a lot smaller, and whatever deficiencies the British had were compensated by superior technology, better governance, and better education, plus, partnerships with local allies. Partnering with local allies has been the name of the game throughout history, it is nothing special to the British as it has been repeated for so long.
Please read The Anarchy by William dalrymple, you'll find interesting details.

The Mir Jaffar's is another overblown drama that gets repeated far too often. During the decade before the battle of Plassey in 1757, the Marathas had killed nearly 500,000 Bengalis and Biharis, which had weakened Bengal, and played a major role in the British victory. Suffering at the hands of the Marathas, that's an another kingdom, because India was never a country, losing half a million people, and the associated destruction, and paying 25% of your income to the Marathas for them to stop attacking is going to weaken you. This story gets ignored, But there is never one single reason. Mir Jaffar's were just a single reason among many.

Size matters, but please do not take one view as a singular answer, that as the only determinant factor. It is a sound bit for a bigger argument. Size always matters, but you have to get other factors right. despite the perception, Pakistan has gotten and is getting lot of things right.

India inherited a fully functioning state, that matters, and all the resources and a proper industrial base, that matters. It's main founding father lived on for 17 more years, and it had large number of other capable top tier national leaders, that matters. Still, despite all this, India does not have a national language, even today. They have created a fantasy for themselves and the world has bought into it, about a historical India, but, they still do not have a national language, meaning, they are still in the process of nation building. There was no India before 1947, just a region, there is an India now, but it is still in the process of nation building.

Pakistan inherited the poorest areas of South Asia/British India, with no industrial base at all. No resources, Not a single complete university, no governance structures, they had to build everything anew, they had to do this when it's single most important founding father was sick and died in one year, the second most capable was killed by an Afghan, just 4 years later in 1951, possibly backed by India. The rest of the leadership was second tier, just regional leaders. But they held the country together, that matters.
All this, and at the same time hosting 6-7 million refugees, that's over 20% of the population, whilst fighting a year long war with a neighbour 11 times bigger then you, that matters. India also had around 6 million refugees but that only amounted to 1.5% of their population, they had everything intact.

We Pakistanis have forgotten far too much, and disrespect our history by ignoring what we have achieved and what our Civilian leaders have delivered.

20% refugees amounts to around 250 million in India. 65 million in America, 13 million in the UK, 16 million in Germany. They cry about few hundred thousands. lets see how they would cope with those numbers, even with fully functional governments, their societies would collapse overnight.

But Pakistan did, and we did it when nothing was in place, nothing. So please do not forget and do not under value the resilience of our nation.

All Pakistanis have accepted Urdu as our national language, people have pride in their local mother tongues but they have wholeheartedly accepted Urdu, whereas India is still on that path. There is a Pakistani nation out there, it already exists, it is the foolish who cannot see it, or lack faith.

Size matters, but we have to get other things right, hopefully we will, we have been derailed by factors outside our control, but like before, we WILL deal with it, because the links between the people of Pakistan go back to the dawn of time, to the Indus Valley Civilisation, those links are in our blood, few other nations can make such a claim. Please show some faith in our resilience, and also express faith when evaluating.


@Mangus Ortus Novem

Context, context...

From Jayapala attacking Ghazni to the end of hindu shahi...
From Nader Shah pillaging Moguls, allowing Marathas and Sikhs a foot in the door...
To Tara Singh splitting Punjab for India and by extension causing the Kashmir strife...

Circle seems to be concluding...

 

[AgnosticIndian]

they still do not have a national language, meaning

I won't engage with rest of the misguided post, but the "national language" propaganda is just straight up stupid. a nation doesn't need a national language, just a *common* language, and that could be anything, there's no reason to just not adopt the global language when the culture and history is already shared. Hindi isn't the national language, and will never be. but India always was, and always will be.

 

[peagle]

Context, context...

From Jayapala attacking Ghazni to the end of hindu shahi...
From Nader Shah pillaging Moguls, allowing Marathas and Sikhs a foot in the door...
To Tara Singh splitting Punjab for India and by extension causing the Kashmir strife...

Circle seems to be concluding...

I honestly do not understand what you are trying to say.

 

[peagle]

I won't engage with rest of the misguided post, but the "national language" propaganda is just straight up stupid. a nation doesn't need a national language, just a *common* language, and that could be anything, there's no reason to just not adopt the global language when the culture and history is already shared. Hindi isn't the national language, and will never be. but India always was, and always will be.

I'm sorry but this is an extremely childish reply for two reasons.
If you have something to say, then say it, provide reasoned statement based on facts, without fantasies, do not put a silly label on facts. Everything I have said is factual and accurate, if I am wrong then point it out, without relying on fantasies. pointing fingers is just childish.

You statement regarding national language is also just childish. "propaganda"? what propaganda? don't be a child, India does not have a national language that is a fact, there has never been a uniform language spoken in South Asia, that is also a fact. Sanskrit was used only by a small minority of less then 1%, among a certain religious class, nothing more.

We live by uniform understandings as to what defines certain things, murder is wrong that is a uniform understanding, what defines a nation is also uniformly understood. Language is a paramount factor in that definition of national or ethnic identity, that is why since the creation of India in 1947 you have been dying to drum down Hindi into the throats of your people, I have nothing against that. But, this is a clear recognition that India is still in the process of nation building.
Go wild, I sincerely wish you succeed, but it is important to recognise that if you are still building a national identity now. there can be no historical identity, that is a fantasy based on falsehoods.

The only part you did not disappoint me is where just like most Indian's, you disregard facts and choose to rely on fantasies based on lies.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Language is a paramount factor in that definition of national or ethnic identity, that is why since the creation of India in 1947 you have been dying to drum down Hindi into the throats of your people, I have nothing against that. But, this is a clear recognition that India is still in the process of nation building.

you're quite evidently mistake, looking simply at the ground facts instead of the systems and rules you've cooked up in your head.

the "fantasies based on lies" have been accepted, by your own admission, by the rest of the world, including a great number of academic scholars. it has been accepted by India itself. it has been accepted by you too, as you cannot really differentiate between those who identify with some language from those who don't, you only have an Indian to reply to.

it's pretty clear which country in in the more advanced phases of "nation building", there can be little debate about it outside of here. the stable nation can be differentiated from the destabilized one, the fractured one. leave the nationalists of the nations out, the rest of the world recognises a real nation from the unreal one. you know their answer.

your fantasies about some national language being the criteria for national identity go out of the window as soon as one looks at the ground reality. the "fantasies based on lies" have tremendous force, the languages of the lies are irrelevant.

 

[SecularNationalist]

So why can't Pakistan simply cut diplomatic ties from the US??? Just kick out their Ambassador, recall Pakistan's ambassador and game over??

Late Khadim Rizvi is no more but left his highly intellectual pupil behind

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I honestly do not understand what you are trying to say.

Just putting records straight in as few a words as possible... of course not enough can be said or written to capture all... it remains obscure and unsaid.
Mehmood of Ghazni needs no introduction but Jayapala does... One who initiated and took the fight to Ghaznavids... instead he lost three times and committed suicide on a pyre! Mehmood in fact ended up making sure the end of the dynasty in his lifetime... Pakistanis ask, why the name, Ghaznavi?
Secondly, another pivotal moment in history when Nader Shah came just to sack Moguls and their treasury, thereby, causing the very balkanization that came later by different insurrections taking hold of large swathes of territories and as you later point out Marathas themselves paving the way for first colonial rule over Bengal, culminating with defeat of Sikhs.
And finally, the pain and suffering of partitioned Punjab which had almost three quarters Muslim majority to two distinct polities culminating in not only uprooting historic Muslim presence in what is now Indian Punjab and Haryana but subsequently and very quickly a gateway to current predicament of Kashmir itself.
My concluding remark brings us back to Jayapala or his wannabe remnant, current state of India devoid of history, milking the narrative from appropriation of it's name.
Calling it something else would invariably have disconnected it from the historic connotations it aims to provide or project.
However, just like Jayapala and his overreach India will light the pyre of it's own demise.

@Mangus Ortus Novem

 

[SIPRA]

Just putting records straight in as few a words as possible... of course not enough can be said or written to capture all... it remains obscure and unsaid.
Mehmood of Ghazni needs no introduction but Jayapala does... One who initiated and took the fight to Ghaznavids... instead he lost three times and committed suicide on a pyre! Mehamood in fact ended making sure the end of the dynasty in his lifetime... Pakistanis ask, why the name, Ghaznavi?
Secondly, another pivotal moment in history when Nader Shah came just to sack Moguls and their treasury, thereby, causing the very balkanization that came later by different insurrections taking hold of large swathes of territories and as you later point out Marathas themselves paving the way for first colonial rule over Bengal, culminating with defeat of Sikhs.
And finally, the pain and suffering of partitioned Punjab which had almost three quarters Muslim majority to two distinct polities culminating in not only uprooting historic Muslim presence in what is now Indian Punjab and Haryana but subsequently and very quickly a gateway to current predicament of Kashmir itself.
My concluding remark brings us back to Jayapala or his wannabe remnant, current state of India devoid of history, milking the narrative from appropriation of it's name.
Calling it something else would invariably have disconnected it from the historic connotations it aims to provide or project.
However, just like Jayapala and his overreach India will lit the pyre of it's own demise.

@Mangus Ortus Novem

Last words of Jayapala, before going to pyre, were:

"Aapay e panga leya see"

 

[Wood]

The US continues to find innovative means to squander money. This FDI will not return rewards for the American tax payer. It would be better for US to take the Chinese approach to investment in foreign countries. Make loan agreements with the sovereign with mutually agreeable collateral

 

[peagle]

you're quite evidently mistake, looking simply at the ground facts instead of the systems and rules you've cooked up in your head.

the "fantasies based on lies" have been accepted, by your own admission, by the rest of the world, including a great number of academic scholars. it has been accepted by India itself. it has been accepted by you too, as you cannot really differentiate between those who identify with some language from those who don't, you only have an Indian to reply to.

it's pretty clear which country in in the more advanced phases of "nation building", there can be little debate about it outside of here. the stable nation can be differentiated from the destabilized one, the fractured one. leave the nationalists of the nations out, the rest of the world recognises a real nation from the unreal one. you know their answer.

your fantasies about some national language being the criteria for national identity go out of the window as soon as one looks at the ground reality. the "fantasies based on lies" have tremendous force, the languages of the lies are irrelevant.

You really are a child, no better then an offensive troll who does not know how to discuss, but can only attempt to avoid the facts and avoid a proper discussion. What an idiot.

You have added nothing except a hollow statement and fantasy points that only make sense yourself.
You had an objection to my original statement?
What is it?
My discussion was very precise, counter it or get back into your hole.
Discuss facts, and keep your stupidity to yourself. Grow up.

This is your India.

Just putting records straight in as few a words as possible... of course not enough can be said or written to capture all... it remains obscure and unsaid.
Mehmood of Ghazni needs no introduction but Jayapala does... One who initiated and took the fight to Ghaznavids... instead he lost three times and committed suicide on a pyre! Mehmood in fact ended up making sure the end of the dynasty in his lifetime... Pakistanis ask, why the name, Ghaznavi?
Secondly, another pivotal moment in history when Nader Shah came just to sack Moguls and their treasury, thereby, causing the very balkanization that came later by different insurrections taking hold of large swathes of territories and as you later point out Marathas themselves paving the way for first colonial rule over Bengal, culminating with defeat of Sikhs.
And finally, the pain and suffering of partitioned Punjab which had almost three quarters Muslim majority to two distinct polities culminating in not only uprooting historic Muslim presence in what is now Indian Punjab and Haryana but subsequently and very quickly a gateway to current predicament of Kashmir itself.
My concluding remark brings us back to Jayapala or his wannabe remnant, current state of India devoid of history, milking the narrative from appropriation of it's name.
Calling it something else would invariably have disconnected it from the historic connotations it aims to provide or project.
However, just like Jayapala and his overreach India will light the pyre of it's own demise.

@Mangus Ortus Novem

I had understood your statement, but it was a bit vague on a clear conclusion.
Crystal clear now

 

[SIPRA]

You really are a child, no better then an offensive troll who does not know how to discuss, but can only attempt to avoid the facts and avoid a proper discussion. What an idiot.

You have added nothing except a hollow statement and fantasy points that only make sense yourself.
You had an objection to my original statement?
What is it?
My discussion was very precise, counter it or get back into your hole.
Discuss facts, and keep your stupidity to yourself. Grow up.

This is the problem of all elite Hindus. Their whole perspective of historical progression strucks at Muslim-Hindu conflict. Their reading of medieval history of India is prejudiced and would remain so. Even today, in a public speech, Modi brought Aurangzeb Alamgir, in contrast with Shivaji Maratha, obviously, for political reasons. Their psyche is trapped and there is no way out.