Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[Pakistani E]

End of Islam ? End of which 'Islam' ? Sunni 'Islam'? Shia 'Islam'? Ibadi 'Islam'? Salafi' 'Islam'? Ahmadiyya 'Islam'? Islamili 'Islam? etc.

Are people leaving Islam? Not that I know off, On the contrary Islam is still an expanding religion.. Every nation/people has a period in which they reach their maximum heights, where they lead the world . I don't believe Islam has even achieved its full expansion yet, how can it start contracting?

What you are referring to is in fact the physical, moral, materialistic and scientific advancements of Muslims. For example, 'physically', Muslims are a majority in 57 countries. Yet, they form no coherent block of powers that can work to their benefits. From Palestine to Kashmir and all the way to Chechnya, even while making up such a large number of the world nations, Muslims are getting kicked around like dirt. The only time when a Muslim nation is taken seriously is when the world suspects it of harbouring extremists or trying to acquire nuclear weapons. Like Hassan Nisar said, there's 1.57 billion of you, yet you are still getting kicked around. Why? There must be something you are doing wrong. So how do you acquire a station in which you are able to project your power? This, in my view, nicely links in with the other mentioned attributes I mentioned.

Morally, the muslim world is in no shape to dictate to others on any major issues. Neither economically, nor militarily, on any issue what so ever. The Muslims world is full of incidents of injustices to our minorities and atrocities against each other. We are still stuck in Shia Kafir, Sunni Kafir etc. We haven't got a leg to stand on. We need to stop all injustices we commit on each other, end sectarian violence, stop oppressing women, and treat all our citizens equally. This is the only way we can create a more harmonious society, remember economic development can only take place when their is peace.

The next part is about materialistic development, this is one aspect that our religious clergy has absolutely destroyed. Mullahs and self declared religious scholars have, throughout the Islamic history, opposed our materialistic advancements by passing religious edicts against anything they don't understand. One important example I can think of right now is the fatwa on the ban on printing press, Lol I mean seriously? This is the broad mindedness of our elite. Instead of encouraging the understanding of the world, our clergy wants us to stop exercising our intellect and instead became brain dead zombies, which surprise surprise, makes us easy to control.

Scientific/technological development is linked to my previous point. how long will we neglect this world ? Why do we forget that before death, there is life. Yes, we must nurture our souls, but what about the flesh and bones? what about making advancements in medicines, to treat our people? what about agricultural advancements, so we can feed ourselves and not have to rely on others? etc.

These are all just incoherent thoughts of mine that I have just thrown out here, if you don't understand something, ask away. Sorry for the wall of text. You are free to disagree, and constructive feedback is always welcome.

 

[SiCiSi]

going back to history, what about chain-mail armor?? lighter than the western european iron uniforms. gun powder though invented in china, found military application in cannons through the muslims. so did artillery rockets, through one of my heroes, tipu sultan, tiger of mysore, arch enemy of the british empire, and perhaps the greatest of south asia's historic rulers. i leave it to you to research.

the european renaissance and industrial revolution happened mainly because of the "islami golden age". simple fact. undeniaible.

and how sure are you that no muslim will ever design a microprocessor or portable computer or operating system or internet??

and shouldn't you be more proud of the soviet designs like the elbrus microprocessor than some south korean silly cellphone??

Im sure the Islamic world invented powered flight, nuclear energy and Michael Jackson but I'm not talking about history. Im talking about the present day where the islamic world doesnt contribute anything to technological advancement of the human race. Mobile technology, advanced communication, space exploration, personal and commercial transportation, industrialization.

Absolutely no innovation is coming from you guys other than creative ways to carry bombs in ones anus.

 

[Schutz]

Islam in this day and age really just struggles to function, even when it does function well its usually in the Western world and even then there are normally many offshoots and groups infighting. They talk about the anglosphere/west/EVERY OTHER fucking excuse on this planet that is "tearing away" at Islam when the real problem is themselves and the constant infighting, of course they like most just like to blame the west for the inadequacies of their people and lack of desire to make change.

 

[Patriots]

well ! invent time machine then ! on a sanor note Times are no longer same. The era of empires and colonies are over. its all about power projection and influence in subtle ways now.

Empires & colonies are over but remember caliphate is not over ............

 

[qamar1990]

In 21st Century Muslims are so cruel , Imagine when there was no International court how cruel they would be.

Muslim left behind because they saw modern education as "tool to eradicate Islam". In India Muslim boycotted Brits education system teeth and nail and forced them to continue obsolete Madarsa system.

what cruelties did the muslims exactly commit?
if they had they would have been the same as europe..
the muslims started boycotting the brits after they had already fucked up.. it was no use then.

 

[jamahir]

Im talking about the present day where the islamic world doesnt contribute anything to technological advancement of the human race. Mobile technology, advanced communication, space exploration, personal and commercial transportation, industrialization.

please read my intro page. i mention that i have been designing a microprocesor. and that is just the start.

and why didn't you respond to my last two lines in my previous comment?? and you don't sound too russian.

 

[user1]

very interesting example you gave. i was about to drop to sleep but was tempted back to answer this

the hashasin of these modern times are taliban, al qaeda, deoband, khomenei's followers, tablighi jamaat, jemah islamiyah, hamas, ikhwaan, wahabi etc. the mongols were the saviors last time, will it be the russian military or north korea this time??

because russian culture was quite influenced by islam, right from the first true russian king, vladimir, to the much later national poet of russia, pushkin, down to the modern times of the soviet union which had muslim republics, and which had military alliances with proper muslim nations ( egypt, libya, iraq, syria, afghanistan, somalia etc ).

because north korea had military alliances with pre-2011 libya ( the jamahiriya ), still has with syria, still has with pakistan, will have with renewed egypt.

@vostok @ptldM3 @Syrian Lion @senheiser @Hasbara Buster @pak-marine @Azlan Haider

Infact, it was the Muslims who gave the first big blow to Mongols in the Battlefield of Ain Jaloot. After that the Mongol had a mixed success vs. Muslims. They got scattered, retreated or converted. Lesson: Allah (SWT) does not change the condition of a people unless they want to change it themselves.

Some say it was the reported first use of hand-cannons which scared away the Mongol horses and fighters. Other say that Mongols were finally out from their natural Battle-fileds of grasslands and into the hostile deserts, they could not cope.

I cannot predict how the tide of history turns; but lesson remians the same - Help yourself and seek Allah (SWT)'s help.

 

[patriotpakistan]

There are problems, but problems can be fixed when they are recognized:

1. Islam has yet to recover from the mongol invasion of baghdad when the river ran black with ink from thrown books and red from the blood of scientists and philosophers. Ignorance is widespread (In technology and in thought, a lack of both makes us weak).

2. Islam has yet to recover from the loss of proper and centralised leadership after the battle of Karbala. Noone can handle the multitude of sects that islam has split into now (the presence of sects are a symptom of no leadership in islam). Perhaps its time muslims realised that if you pray a little differently to Allah or if you break your fast a little later, you won't goto hell for it. Allah is far too kind for that assumuption.

3. 99.9% religious preachers (from all sects) have corrupted islam. Islam has become a supersititious and ritualistic religion used for political and personal agendas. It has actually started worshipping Allah's messenger himself if one looks closely. For example: Growing the beard because it is considered a sunnah. Sunnah was introduced to take lessons from the Allah's messanger's exemplary personality. Copying his physical appearance is actually a form of idolatory. Note that the beard had abslutely no effect in making Allah's messanger a great person, his personality did. Infact, the murderers in Iraq have beards too. Even then, some mullahs claim that cutting the beard is blasphemy. All of this stems from ignorance of the muslim population who haven't studied religion and are content to follow dubious tableegi/mullah claims without using the rational minds given to them by Allah. There are too many examples of ignorance to state here and they could fill an entire book (alot of them are things which muslims take for granted as part of Allah's religion when they are not).

4. Muslims don't know how to work together in an organized manner with each other. They are essentially a mob. Emotional intelligence is a big deficit in the muslim community. Long term goals for the greater good of each other are sacrificed for personal short term goals.

5. Ijtehad has been completely eliminated from Islam when it is the most important element in it. Ijtehad is the practice of using good judgement and common sense to lead a good life. For example: New muslim converts are asked to change their names when they convert. None of the people converted through Allah's messenger were asked to do so. That's why Arab names like Umar, Osman and Abu Bakr are considered Islamic when they are just names given to people in those times. It is common sense to not change the name after converting but to practice Ijtehad and to question it angers tableegis/mullahs who insist upon changing of names. One must remember that truth can stand up to all questions and if something cannot stand up to scrutiny, there is something wrong there. When muslims are expected to not be thinking, rational people but instead become mindless subserviant robots to tableegis/mullahs' whims, they will never shake themselves loose of their present condition.


I hope muslims have found this enlightening and started to do some soul searching/questioning to improve their condition.

 

[OrionHunter]

What is "original Islam"

Islam is Islam!
Islam has no boundries!
Islam =Quran = Hadeeth (Bokhari/Muslim) = Sunah (Ibn Ishaq) = Sharia...

Can you make me understand some that I am missing?

Yes! It's all about the correct interpretation of the Qur'an. The fundamentalists and those who hanker for power have interpreted it to suit their agendas.

Read post No. 233 above by patriotpakistan.

 

[HariPrasad]

People will certainly loose faith in Islam in its current form. Either it will have to under go a change to feet to the aspiration of people or collapse.

 

[areal]

Islam needs reform to let religion only be religion, but not something else.
however, it could be difficult, in middle-age of Christian, which faced the same problem as modern Islam, then European reformed the Christian to the modern form through, unfortunately, wars.
Islam defines too much over the issues outside what a religion should be, every sorts of reform will be accused to disobey the original intention of the Koran, which makes any modernization reform complicated.

 

[punit]

Empires & colonies are over but remember caliphate is not over ............

the true caliphate : Rashidun Caliphate is over. the rest are just glorified kings and emperor .

 

[Black Widow]

what cruelties did the muslims exactly commit?
if they had they would have been the same as europe..
the muslims started boycotting the brits after they had already fucked up.. it was no use then.

In the name of Religion
Pakistan: Shia and Ahmedi Butchered, Moderate Sunnis are killed,Beheading Paksiatni police/army .
Afghanistan: cutting nose and ear of Women, Blowing off Budhha statue.and so on
Iraq: Buthcering Shias, Kurds
Syria: Sex Jihad
and so on.......

And most interesting All these activities are justified under Muhammad's religion.. Crime happen in other countries, But no one justified in Jesusu's religion or some other guys religion.


Imagine how cruel these ppl will be in past when there was no media...

 

[Zabaniyah]

well this is certainly not the end of islam, i expect that in the next 10-15 years we see stability in the muslim world, lot of these problems you speak of for example the arab spring are orchestrated in the west to bring instability to the middle east. in reality there is no shia-sunni fights, up till the last decade we never eve heard of a any major conflict between shias and sunnis simply because of the their difference. all this shia-sunni fighting is being created by the west to divide and conquer the muslims, we need to stick out and not go crazy. we need to get rid of the monarchies in our counties and bring democracy and freedom. the arab muslim world will definitely be strong again its only been a 150 years since we fell off the camels back. the muslims didn't adopt cruelty like the europeans so they got left behind.

There were Shia-Sunni fights long ago. Like, way back in the medieval days. After that, there really wasn't any mention of them. People were okay.

It was back in the early days of the Cold War where questions like: "Hey, you a Sunni or a Shia?" kept popping up

But there wasn't violence like the ones seen in Iraq in the early 21st century. It was just retarded questions like that.

It is now officially a full blown conflict which can even overshadow the Israeli-Palestinian one.

 

[qamar1990]

There were Shia-Sunni fights long ago. Like, way back in the medieval days. After that, there really wasn't any mention of them. People were okay.

It was back in the early days of the Cold War where questions like: "Hey, you a Sunni or a Shia?" kept popping up

But there wasn't violence like the ones seen in Iraq in the early 21st century. It was just retarded questions like that.

It is now officially a full blown conflict which can even overshadow the Israeli-Palestinian one.

this conflict is artificial it created by the west to divide and conquer….and people are foolishly falling for it…
they highlight it so much in the news and they are always sure to mention that a sunn killed a shia or a shia killed a sunni. its never things just somebody killed somebody ect.. the way the news especially highlights these instances it plants seeds in peoples hearts and those seeds turn into trees because they keep watering them with more and more of these stories.