Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[jamahir]

i agree to a good extent.....

a start. thank you

socialist isnt a nice word

actually, many muslims think "socialism" and "communism" are not nice words because they fear accusations of atheism from the mullahs and their own families. many years ago, one of my aunts asked me that, very accusingly

communism is really a ideal and sought state of society when governments have fallen, militaries don't exist and people rule themselves. to achieve that scientific state of society, the people must live in a democratic, just, caring and progressive way, which is socialism... and this should extend to society's politics, social structure and economics.

"socialism" and "communism" are simply "states of society" and do not describe whether a person believes in god or not.

hazrat isa was something of a socialist ( his complaint against the money lenders etc ), and then came islam, which spoke practically how to create democratic society... politically, socially and economically.

simple as that

edit : and this is why every sensible and indepedent muslim society in the modern world aligned with the soviet union, north korea, east germany, cuba, venezuela, african national congress etc... there was not much difference of principle.

edit : @Azlan Haider your opinion on my previous two points, please.

 

[Multani]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


@dexter @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Abu Nasar @Akheilos @Leader @Jazzbot @PWFI @HRK @RAMPAGE
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@SOHEIL @Targon @BLACKEAGLE @BDforever @Sher Malang @Afghan-India @TOPGUN @Rafi @@Donatello @wasm95 @Metanoia @@cabatli_53 @graphican @Mosamania @@American Eagle @BronzePlaque @@BordoEnes @@Malik Alashter @@Bubblegum Crisis @@LegionnairE @RiazHaq @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Nihonjin1051 @Marwat Khan Lodhi @OCguy @Thoryalai Zazai @@A1Kaid @Jigs @Awesome @Chinese-Dragon @Hyperion


@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

Posing the question that is this the end of islam shows lack of adab towards Islamic Beliefs and Tawakkul in Allah, the cornerstone of being a Muslim and having Iman, Faith.

This is an insultive question. Allah says that Islam is the only true faith until the Day of Judgement. And Imam al Mahdi alayh salam is to appear and Jesus Christ is to return.

So how can you ask if this is the end of Islam, being a Muslim?

much of your post brother is exaggeration.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen?

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today?


@dexter @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Abu Nasar @Akheilos @Leader @Jazzbot @PWFI @HRK @RAMPAGE
@MastanKhan @Armstrong @Zizou @Jungibaaz @GreenFalcon @Evil Flare @rockstar08 @farhanalee7 @Multani @Zarvan @al-Hasani @Areesh @SHAMK9 @Ulla @Kaan @Devil Soul @Indos @KAL-EL @JonAsad @chauvunist @Marshmallow @Yzd Khalifa @Hazzy997 @Sinan @Azeri @rmi5 @haman10 @Serpentine @CENTCOM @Pukhtoon @ghilzai @Icarus @Chinese-Dragon @Arabian Legend @DESERT FIGHTER @Irfan Baloch @kalu_miah @idune @Al-zakir @Mav3rick @RazPaK @Alpha1 @Neptune @razgriz19 @KingMamba @Luffy 500 @AUz @Hyperion @Aether @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @nair @Ayush @Manticore @Oscar @Fulcrum15 @blain2 @Chak Bamu @RazPaK @Informant @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER @Umair Nawaz @qamar1990 @Abu Nasar @Slav Defence @Secur @slapshot @batmannow @BATMAN @MastanKhan @S.U.R.B. @RescueRanger @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @Pukhtoon @pk_baloch @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mugwop @Mirzay @Men in Green @Luftwaffe @LoveIcon @liontk @JonAsad @ghazaliy2k @Durrak @Devil Soul @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Cheetah786 @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @Air marshal@A.Rafay @Proudpakistaniguy
@SOHEIL @Targon @BLACKEAGLE @BDforever @Sher Malang @Afghan-India @TOPGUN @Rafi @@Donatello @wasm95 @Metanoia @@cabatli_53 @graphican @Mosamania @@American Eagle @BronzePlaque @@BordoEnes @@Malik Alashter @@Bubblegum Crisis @@LegionnairE @RiazHaq @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Nihonjin1051 @Marwat Khan Lodhi @OCguy @Thoryalai Zazai @@A1Kaid @Jigs @Awesome @Chinese-Dragon @Hyperion


@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

No, this is not the worst. Because, the worst is still to come. Why? because Dajjal hasnt appeared yet openly.

Then it will be the worst.

RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih told us that during Dajjali times, killings and fasad will engulf all the world. People wouldn't know who is killing who. Earthquakes will also increase.

Turkish Quake
Azad Kashmir / hazara quake
Bam Quake
Indian ocean quake
China quake
Japan quake
Haiti quake
bhuj quake

and more to come

 

[The SC]

really? wow, that means i dont get what i was trying to say myself LOL

Completed your religion for you and the end of a religion are two different things. you realize it , and I do too.
You and I know what you meant, but for a non Muslim it might sound like the end of Islam was when the Prophet Mohammad

said...
Cool.

 

[My-Analogous]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


@dexter @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Abu Nasar @Akheilos @Leader @Jazzbot @PWFI @HRK @RAMPAGE
@MastanKhan @Armstrong @Zizou @Jungibaaz @GreenFalcon @Evil Flare @rockstar08 @farhanalee7 @Multani @Zarvan @al-Hasani @Areesh @SHAMK9 @Ulla @Kaan @Devil Soul @Indos @KAL-EL @JonAsad @chauvunist @Marshmallow @Yzd Khalifa @Hazzy997 @Sinan @Azeri @rmi5 @haman10 @Serpentine @CENTCOM @Pukhtoon @ghilzai @Icarus @Chinese-Dragon @Arabian Legend @DESERT FIGHTER @Irfan Baloch @kalu_miah @idune @Al-zakir @Mav3rick @RazPaK @Alpha1 @Neptune @razgriz19 @KingMamba @Luffy 500 @AUz @Hyperion @Aether @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @nair @Ayush @Manticore @Oscar @Fulcrum15 @blain2 @Chak Bamu @RazPaK @Informant @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER @Umair Nawaz @qamar1990 @Abu Nasar @Slav Defence @Secur @slapshot @batmannow @BATMAN @MastanKhan @S.U.R.B. @RescueRanger @Raja.Pakistani @Rajput_Pakistani @Pukhtoon @pk_baloch @Patriots @Pakistanisage @Mugwop @Mirzay @Men in Green @Luftwaffe @LoveIcon @liontk @JonAsad @ghazaliy2k @Durrak @Devil Soul @Developereo @Darth Vader @Desert Fox @Cheetah786 @cb4 @Bratva @balixd @Air marshal@A.Rafay @Proudpakistaniguy
@SOHEIL @Targon @BLACKEAGLE @BDforever @Sher Malang @Afghan-India @TOPGUN @Rafi @@Donatello @wasm95 @Metanoia @@cabatli_53 @graphican @Mosamania @@American Eagle @BronzePlaque @@BordoEnes @@Malik Alashter @@Bubblegum Crisis @@LegionnairE @RiazHaq @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Nihonjin1051 @Marwat Khan Lodhi @OCguy @Thoryalai Zazai @@A1Kaid @Jigs @Awesome @Chinese-Dragon @Hyperion


@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

 

[rockstar08]

aur koi mushkil sheer nai mila

 

[My-Analogous]

aur koi mushkil sheer nai mila

Allama Iqbal solution for all problem

 

[Contrarian]

There are problems, but problems can be fixed when they are recognized:

1. Islam has yet to recover from the mongol invasion of baghdad when the river ran black with ink from thrown books and red from the blood of scientists and philosophers. Ignorance is widespread (In technology and in thought, a lack of both makes us weak).

2. Islam has yet to recover from the loss of proper and centralised leadership after the battle of Karbala. Noone can handle the multitude of sects that islam has split into now (the presence of sects are a symptom of no leadership in islam). Perhaps its time muslims realised that if you pray a little differently to Allah or if you break your fast a little later, you won't goto hell for it. Allah is far too kind for that assumuption.

3. 99.9% religious preachers (from all sects) have corrupted islam. Islam has become a supersititious and ritualistic religion used for political and personal agendas. It has actually started worshipping Allah's messenger himself if one looks closely. For example: Growing the beard because it is considered a sunnah. Sunnah was introduced to take lessons from the Allah's messanger's exemplary personality. Copying his physical appearance is actually a form of idolatory. Note that the beard had abslutely no effect in making Allah's messanger a great person, his personality did. Infact, the murderers in Iraq have beards too. Even then, some mullahs claim that cutting the beard is blasphemy. All of this stems from ignorance of the muslim population who haven't studied religion and are content to follow dubious tableegi/mullah claims without using the rational minds given to them by Allah. There are too many examples of ignorance to state here and they could fill an entire book (alot of them are things which muslims take for granted as part of Allah's religion when they are not).

4. Muslims don't know how to work together in an organized manner with each other. They are essentially a mob. Emotional intelligence is a big deficit in the muslim community. Long term goals for the greater good of each other are sacrificed for personal short term goals.

5. Ijtehad has been completely eliminated from Islam when it is the most important element in it. Ijtehad is the practice of using good judgement and common sense to lead a good life. For example: New muslim converts are asked to change their names when they convert. None of the people converted through Allah's messenger were asked to do so. That's why Arab names like Umar, Osman and Abu Bakr are considered Islamic when they are just names given to people in those times. It is common sense to not change the name after converting but to practice Ijtehad and to question it angers tableegis/mullahs who insist upon changing of names. One must remember that truth can stand up to all questions and if something cannot stand up to scrutiny, there is something wrong there. When muslims are expected to not be thinking, rational people but instead become mindless subserviant robots to tableegis/mullahs' whims, they will never shake themselves loose of their present condition.


I hope muslims have found this enlightening and started to do some soul searching/questioning to improve their condition.

A fantastic post!

Regards

 

[HRK]

No nation will precede its time [of termination], nor will they remain [thereafter] (43).- Surat Al-Mu'minūn (The Believers)

 

[jamahir]

RasoolAllah salat wa salam alaih told us that during Dajjali times, killings and fasad will engulf all the world. People wouldn't know who is killing who.

sorry, but muslims must simply leave mythologies behind... dajjal and all. if there is the taliban, fsa, deoband, ayatollah now... there was the hashasheen 800 years ago. no difference. was it the dajjal then too??

i have never seen a jinn. have you??

Earthquakes will also increase.

Turkish Quake
Azad Kashmir / hazara quake
Bam Quake
Indian ocean quake
...
and more to come

what about the asteroid part that over-flew russia early 2013?? it injured about a thousand people and damaged thousands of buildings. watch on youtube.

it wasn't mythical jinns or dajjals which were piloting aeroplanes over libya, helping al-qaeda/taliban kill libyans and take over libya.... those planes were piloted by real humans in the airforces of usa, britain, germany, france etc... there were real humans on the ground killing libyans... humans from saudia, qatar, belgium, usa, al-gay-da, talibunny, jemah islamiyah, deoband etc

and who invaded pakistan air force bases or chinese railways stations?? jinns or brain-washed-funded-armed puppet humans??

it was puppets of usa who murdered 200,000+ humans in libya and 150,000+ in syria, just since 2011.

my friend, i just want to wake up muslims from living a delusionary life of prayers, fasting, jobs, colleges, families... and look at the real physical world. that is all

how long will muslims keep blaming fate, dajjal and george bush, when we muslims failed to act when we should??

who are these stupid muslims who are outraged by cartoons of hazrat muhammad while forgetting his real followers who have been brutally murdered in iraq ( 2+ million since 1990 ), libya ( 200,000+ since 2011 ) and syria ( 150,000+ since 2011 )?? where are the protest marches in india, pakistan, indonesia and europe??

this is what iqbal was angered by, those 100 years ago.

 

[anHuman]

Islam will never end!

Right now were in battle-mode. We are fighting those zionists and anglo-saxons who are creating problems in our land.

I can't see anyone fighining against zionist and anglo-saxons ... arab are in bed with them , pakistan has internal problem , turkey want to use this mess , Iran is pressured ,and other so called muslims country are nothing more than body count ....

there is no war between muslims and westerns , there is war between Islam ( pure Islam ) and westerns ideology ....

and most of muslims are acting as westerns pawn in this war

 

[mujhaidind]

there is no war between muslims and westerns , there is war between Islam ( pure Islam ) and westerns ideology ....
and most of muslims are acting as westerns pawn in this war

This is also a war between Momins and Munafiqs.

 

[jamahir]

Iran is pressured

pressured?? when??

iran's top modern mullah, khomenei, was a prime agent of the american government, british government and zionists. he lived in paris, after having being kicked out of iraq by the iraqi socialist baath movement. and once the iraq-iran war started, this munafiq called khomenei, collaborated with israel and the western nations, to invade iraq. the iraqis were terrified by visions of self-mutilating irani shia forcing iraqi ladies into burqa, iraqi men into mosques 40 times a day and a general terror of farsi psychopaths roaming the roads of iraq, turning iraq into the horror show that was called khomenei iran.

there is war between Islam ( pure Islam ) and westerns ideology....

the irani version of islam is in reality... zarthusth culture ( zoroastrianism )... a strange psychopathic culture.

This is also a war between Momins and Munafiqs.

true, but can you name some names on either side??

 

[Zabaniyah]

a start. thank you



actually, many muslims think "socialism" and "communism" are not nice words because they fear accusations of atheism from the mullahs and their own families. many years ago, one of my aunts asked me that, very accusingly

communism is really a ideal and sought state of society when governments have fallen, militaries don't exist and people rule themselves. to achieve that scientific state of society, the people must live in a democratic, just, caring and progressive way, which is socialism... and this should extend to society's politics, social structure and economics.

"socialism" and "communism" are simply "states of society" and do not describe whether a person believes in god or not.

hazrat isa was something of a socialist ( his complaint against the money lenders etc ), and then came islam, which spoke practically how to create democratic society... politically, socially and economically.

simple as that

edit : and this is why every sensible and indepedent muslim society in the modern world aligned with the soviet union, north korea, east germany, cuba, venezuela, african national congress etc... there was not much difference of principle.

edit : @Azlan Haider your opinion on my previous two points, please.

Socialism works when there is a small population, and a lot of resources. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

People like Nehru and Mujib tried that. It didn't exactly work out. In fact, India's IT boom was due to classic Capitalism back in the 90's.

 

[jamahir]

Socialism works when there is a small population

wrong. the soviet union was the biggest nation in the world, with the vision of uniting all the world's socialists, for world socialism, and the vision helped by great socialists like nasser, muammar, hafiz, saddam and lumumba. think of the world population.

india's huge population and its mess is because of hinduism.

and a lot of resources

what resources did soviet union have when it started. it transformed from a agricultural rural society ( like gandhi's india ) into a military superpower and a space power, within decades, despite losing 25 million people in world war 2.

what huge resources does north korea have?? or syria?? or cuba?? the people there are much more happy with their systems than the people of usa. they have infinitely more freedoms and good life than people of india.

Otherwise, it doesn't work.

it worked well in libya for 41 years, soviet union for 80+ years...

People like Nehru and Mujib tried that. It didn't exactly work out.

india was socialist?? nehru was socialist?? is that a joke??

nehru was fake-socialist. mao tse tung, founder of communist china, said of nehru... "he is the messenger of the capitalists".

did nehru allow nasser and tito ( his two nam co-founders ) to help turn india into a socialist society. no.

india is the most capitalist society in history. the bombay stock exchange was founded in mid 1800's, and wasn't shut down in nehru's time, nor now when the english nations have had the anti-capitalist occupy movements.

dowry deaths, honor killings and village social boycotts ( hukka paani bandh ) are faces of capitalism ( and perverted beliefs ). did nehru take action against private money lending?? or stock markets?? or dowry?? or..

nehru sent his military to help the usa invade socialist north korea ( democratic people's republic of korea ), in the korea war. the indian military was totally armed by the western bloc, right from 1947, when nehru became prime minister.

nehru allowed the cia to smuggle the cia agent, dalai lama, into india in 1958... with help of the indian army. nehru allowed the cia to plant nuclear-powered radio listening machines in the himalaya border with socialist china.

In fact, India's IT boom was due to classic Capitalism back in the 90's.

and because of "classic capitalism", the bubble of indian it industry is now burst. please read news more. and this is a recent post of mine here, about this bubble burst ( Korean war:US beaten by China | Page 5 ), please follow through with my other posts too. it speaks of the deserved downfall of this arrogant "great indian it industry".

also, google for "cyber coolie", "code monkey", "indiot", "infoshit" ( infosys company ), "indian bowel movement" ( ibm company ). those are world famous words now.

look at these sites dedicated to laughing at, complaining about and discussing the atrocity that is the indian software/services industry...

1. ( indiots zymichost com )
2. ( techinsurgent com )

---
must leave now. we will discuss later.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Completed your religion for you and the end of a religion are two different things. you realize it , and I do too.
You and I know what you meant, but for a non Muslim it might sound like the end of Islam was when the Prophet Mohammad

said...
Cool.

.................completing means that no more laws shall be added, because we cannot possibly add anymore things to the Quran or Hadith can we?