Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[illusion8]

That is a perfect example of not knowing what you're talking about. Crucial axioms in Islam that are not up for debate are few. The bulk, and I mean a number approaching 100%, has always been up for debate, especially in fiqh and sharii3ah. In the previous few centuries, we're run out of scholars who could take the debates forward, and people like you and me who don't know their rihgt foot from their left in religion, have assumed the right of parley.


They are never meant to. Only a few of them learn even a subset of the sciences that are prerequired.

I am talking about the conflict that arises due to change in how one views Islam, is Islam open for interpretation with modern laws? the bulk of the debate circles inside the fixed parameters of Islam and the enforcement of it on Muslim masses. The tides of change which Irfan is / was talking about is what's bringing in the conflicts. I agree that many scholars of Islam are seen arguing about the man made laws or fatwas within Islam - but then those set of rules does not leave the confines of the religion which has a predating fixed set of fundamentals that override all other discussions or arguments. The debates are on the interpretations of the set of fundamentals.

You are right, I am not a religious person and I usually do not get into any religious discussions much less about Islam of which I hardly know much and have an outsiders perspective.

What I see though is that there is considerable opposition to the changes that some states have adopted and there is a considerable push on these states to go back to their routes - which is one of the cause of conflict within the mulsim world.

The madrassah example was cited by me, because the poster was arguing that people read the Quran but are unable to interpret it correctly. Most of the extremists we see have madrassah backgrounds - and, I am surely astonished that even after spending 12 - 15 years reading the Quran, they still wrongly interpret it.

 

[takeiteasy]

Does Muslims leaving Islam now? It is not. so, how this is the end of Islam? besides, Islam is growing with more and more orthodox muslims day by day. I believe a war between Allah's Ummath and Non-Muslim nations will surely happen, given the way the things are going. Once Sunnis crush other sects, it is the time for Sunnis vs other religions.

 

[illusion8]

I believe a war between Allah's Ummath and Non-Muslim nations will surely happen, given the way the things are going. Once Sunnis crush other sects, it is the time for Sunnis vs other religions.

Other religions?
Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Confucianism? Doesn't bode well for Sunni's in the final tally.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Nothing will happen to Islam. Muslims are corrupt and blind but Islam as a religion still shines through. That is the reason why many are attracted towards the spiritual side of Islam.

The ugly side is deranged clerics and dictators in Muslim world using Islam to incite historical and racial hate and blending it with sectarianism. Their time will come too.

Certain lobbies trying to make it into Islam vs rest of the World, which is not the case. What you see on media is in fact Geopolitics being played out. Islam is just the scape goat.

s is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery

You are a student of history, read some books my friend. Every single religion has gone through similar periods.

 

[Patriots]

Stop Living in Past Glories. That era is gone and is not coming back. This is the era of nation states and alliance of nation states. Knowledge, education and wisdom are the most powerful tools of this era.

How could you say that Muslims couldn't make their future as the past they had

 

[Aepsilons]

Islam is a religion of peace, and its rather beautiful in how it emphasizes submission to the Love and Will of God. In Arabic, the name of God is Allah. What I find so beautiful in Islam are the 99 names of Allah, these names illustrate to the reader, the muslim, or the admirer of Islam of just how wonderful God is towards man, which is His perfect and most beloved creation.

Three of my favorite names of Allah include:

1) Dul-Jalali Wal Ikram

2) Al- Wadud

3) Al Ghafur


The first name that I list, Dul - Jalali Wal Ikram, means , in Arabic , The Lord of Majesty and Bounty. Indeed, He is Lord of all worlds, and from Him, all truth, all things sprang into being, and from Him, who is the fount of All Good Things, are poured over man through Grace and Love. This name of God reminds me, to not only turn to Him in times of trouble, but to remember that He loves me, and that He is the one that has blessed me all the days of my life, and will welcome me upon my death -- in Paradise.

The second name that I list is , Al- Wadud. My goodness, how I love this name ! It means , He who is Ever Loving.
And ask forgiveness of your Lord and turn unto Him in repentance. Verily, my Lord is Most Merciful, Most Loving (الودود)” (Quran 11:90).

He Loves me, despite my faults, He abides in me, and he uplifts me.

The third name that I list is , Al Ghafur. Allah is not in haste to punish an individual for his sins. He even at times overlooks sins due to His Attribute of Haleem. Al Ghaffur has been described as meaning Allah is "The Most Forgiving One". He forgives a particular sin, no matter how large it may be. If the person returns to the same sin, Allah is Al Ghaffar, The Very Forgiving One. Al Ghaffar gives the notion that Allah continuously and repetitively forgives an individual for his sins. If an individual returns to Allah and asks for repentance, it can be accepted due to Allah's Attribute of being Tawwab, the Acceptor of Repentance.
------



This is why I admire, and I love Islam. But more than Islam, I love Allah. Who is Creator, Redeemer...of all men. Be they Al-Qitab, Al-Muslim et al.

 

[jamahir]

I am surely astonished that even after spending 12 - 15 years reading the Quran, they still wrongly interpret it.

in south asia, 99 percent of "muslims" have never read the quran themselves, they have only memorized the wording without knowing the meanings. this is technically possible because urdu language borrows heavily from arabi. so until death, they never really learn true islam. because in south asia, there is culture of respect for the buzurg ( farsi word ), meaning "elder in age", or respect for priests ( borrowed from hinduism ), or unquestioning respect for parents, most "muslims" here automatically follow the wrong beliefs of those three categories.

how else can you explain the contradiction of muslims taking loans on interest ( haraam ) from modern capitalist banks or private loan sharks, so that they can provide dowry ( haraam ) in their daughter's marriage, whom they are forcing to marry ( haraam )?? and then take another interest-based loan ( haraam ) for sending their son to some mba college ( capitalism, haraam ) so that he will get a job ( wage-slavery, slavery, haraam )?? and so on.

 

[illusion8]

in south asia, 99 percent of "muslims" have never read the quran themselves, they have only memorized the wording without knowing the meanings. this is technically possible because urdu language borrows heavily from arabi. so until death, they never really learn true islam. because in south asia, there is culture of respect for the buzurg ( farsi word ), meaning "elder in age", or respect for priests ( borrowed from hinduism ), or unquestioning respect for parents, most "muslims" here automatically follow the wrong beliefs of those three categories.

how else can you explain the contradiction of muslims taking loans on interest ( haraam ) from modern capitalist banks or private loan sharks, so that they can provide dowry ( haraam ) in their daughter's marriage, whom they are forcing to marry ( haraam )?? and then take another interest-based loan ( haraam ) for sending their son to some mba college ( capitalism, haraam ) so that he will get a job ( wage-slavery, slavery, haraam )?? and so on.

That's a good explanation. thanks.

 

[jamahir]

nihonjin, wonderful selection

the simplicity of true islam starts at the shahaada itself, the credo... la ilaaha illallah ( there is no other god but just god )... muhammadur rasool allah ( and muhammad is ( only ) his messenger ).

unfortunately, many muslims over the centuries have complicated this simple islam and their life with prayers, festivals, rituals, fake beliefs, injustices

That's a good explanation. thanks.

welcome, sir

 

[Aepsilons]

in south asia, 99 percent of "muslims" have never read the quran themselves, they have only memorized the wording without knowing the meanings. this is technically possible because urdu language borrows heavily from arabi. so until death, they never really learn true islam. because in south asia, there is culture of respect for the buzurg ( farsi word ), meaning "elder in age", or respect for priests ( borrowed from hinduism ), or unquestioning respect for parents, most "muslims" here automatically follow the wrong beliefs of those three categories.

how else can you explain the contradiction of muslims taking loans on interest ( haraam ) from modern capitalist banks or private loan sharks, so that they can provide dowry ( haraam ) in their daughter's marriage, whom they are forcing to marry ( haraam )?? and then take another interest-based loan ( haraam ) for sending their son to some mba college ( capitalism, haraam ) so that he will get a job ( wage-slavery, slavery, haraam )?? and so on.

In its purest form, Islam is a religion of spiritual beauty and peace. It is Divinely inspired.

The problem is when it is used for political means, and to forward human intentions.

Human intentions, political as it may be, are focused on the here and now, and not on the spiritual well being or on Allah's Will.

This also applies for Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc -- when its used to champion national and political interests.

nihonjin, wonderful selection

the simplicity of true islam starts at the shahaada itself, the credo... la ilaaha illallah ( there is no other god but just god )... muhammadur rasool allah ( and muhammad is ( only ) his messenger ).

unfortunately, many muslims over the centuries have complicated this simple islam and their life with prayers, festivals, rituals, fake beliefs, injustices



welcome, sir

Thank you !

 

[jamahir]

The problem is when it is used for political means, and to forward human intentions.

Human intentions, political as it may be, are focused on the here and now, and not on the spiritual well being or on Allah's Will.

actually, islam is not only spiritual but also political and for the here and now. and this is actually good

1. in a non-islami system, if you have taken interest-based loan, it is in the "here and now". if you are being harassed by the loan-giver, would you want some priest or "elder" to tell you that economic suffering is the "human way" and you will find salvation in the "here after", so until then kindly suffer??

or would you not be liking the socialist ( political ) economics of true islam which has banned interest-based loans altogether, and hence the harassment of the money lender??

2. in a non-islami system, a lady being forced to marry when she doesn't want to, must suffer until death, maybe. should she tell herself to suffer in the "here and now" because she will find salvation in the "here after"??

or would she not like the socialist ( political ) way of true islam where she marries by her own will, and not even her father ( especially her father ) can force her to marry?? and then she can divorce by her will. will she not like that??

islam was always "political". it was just the capitalist propaganda groups like bbc and cnn who began using "political islam" to describe taliban, al qaeda, irani ayatollahs ( who are essentially western creations ).

another such word is "islamist". if the taliban is "islamist", then what describes their enemy, muammar gaddafi, who is the imaam of all muslims presently?? in reality, it is muammar who is actually "islamist", as am i... those like taliban are fake-muslims created by cia or mi6 or mossad. so how can they be "islamist"??

if al-qaeda and taliban are "islamist", and the usa government supports them in libya and syria against the governments there, then by supporting those "islamists", logically speaking, the usa government becomes "islamist"... so is george bush a muslim now?? or is tony blair?? or hillary clinton??

just some points to consider

 

[Aepsilons]

actually, islam is not only spiritual but also political and for the here and now. and this is actually good

1. in a non-islami system, if you have taken interest-based loan, it is in the "here and now". if you are being harassed by the loan-giver, would you want some priest or "elder" to tell you that economic suffering is the "human way" and you will find salvation in the "here after", so until then kindly suffer??

or would you not be liking the socialist ( political ) economics of true islam which has banned interest-based loans altogether, and hence the harassment of the money lender??

2. in a non-islami system, a lady being forced to marry when she doesn't want to, must suffer until death, maybe. should she tell herself to suffer in the "here and now" because she will find salvation in the "here after"??

or would she not like the socialist ( political ) way of true islam where she marries by her own will, and not even her father ( especially her father ) can force her to marry?? and then she can divorce by her will. will she not like that??

islam was always "political". it was just the capitalist propaganda groups like bbc and cnn who began using "political islam" to describe taliban, al qaeda, irani ayatollahs ( who are essentially western creations ).

another such word is "islamist". if the taliban is "islamist", then what describes their enemy, muammar gaddafi, who is the imaam of all muslims presently?? in reality, it is muammar who is actually "islamist", as am i... those like taliban are fake-muslims created by cia or mi6 or mossad. so how can they be "islamist"??

if al-qaeda and taliban are "islamist", and the usa government supports them in libya and syria against the governments there, then by supporting those "islamists", logically speaking, the usa government becomes "islamist"... so is george bush a muslim now?? or is tony blair?? or hillary clinton??

just some points to consider

Salam Alaikum,


Thank you for that very profound and beautiful example , my friend @jamahir . Yes, i see where Islam may have very influential role in social harmony. There are 5 pillars of Islam: 1) Shahadah, 2) Salat, 3) Zakat, 4) Sawm, and 5) Hajj.

All of these pillars are, if applied righteously and piously, builds true social harmony. In the here and now, and also prepares people for salvation in the after life. I truly admire Zakat, because it reminds muslims to remember the poor -- and to give alms. This is similar in the Christian golden rule of loving one's neighbors as oneself. As what Christ tells and reminds us , efficaciously. I also admire the Shahadah, and the Salat. It reminds a believer of the relationship we have to the Most Compassionate, and Most Loving God.

 

[jamahir]

Salam Alaikum,


Thank you for that very profound and beautiful example , my friend @jamahir . Yes, i see where Islam may have very influential role in social harmony. There are 5 pillars of Islam: 1) Shahadah, 2) Salat, 3) Zakat, 4) Sawm, and 5) Hajj.

All of these pillars are, if applied righteously and piously, builds true social harmony. In the here and now, and also prepares people for salvation in the after life. I truly admire Zakat, because it reminds muslims to remember the poor -- and to give alms. This is similar in the Christian golden rule of loving one's neighbors as oneself. As what Christ tells and reminds us , efficaciously. I also admire the Shahadah, and the Salat. It reminds a believer of the relationship we have to the Most Compassionate, and Most Loving God.

very good words, my friend. thank you. your example from christianity is very good. how can one, by common sense, be happy when the neighbouring is suffering?? good question. and when that is coupled with ideas like "zakaat", we begin questioning the very need for poverty and suffering to exist. and you will of course know that jesus christ is called "hazrat isa" in islam, and is the second most important prophet.

 

[Aepsilons]

very good words, my friend. thank you. your example from christianity is very good. how can one, by common sense, be happy when the neighbouring is suffering?? good question. and when that is coupled with ideas like "zakaat", we begin questioning the very need for poverty and suffering to exist. and you will of course know that jesus christ is called "hazrat isa" in islam, and is the second most important prophet.

Yes, Jesus Christ is a Prophet in Islam. What I also admire in Islam is the reference to The Blessed Virgin Mary.

It is interesting , my friend, that even in the days Moses / Moshe, David/ Da'ud, even back to the days of Abraham / Avrahom/ Ibrahim, there were always poor people and the maligned. For me, in a spiritual sense, it reminds me that there can never be perfect attainment, a perfect world even in this day in age. There shall always be suffering in the here and now. What we can do, on an individual basis, is to try to live in harmony with our fellow believers , to do what is good and what is right.

It will be in Paradise where all pain, suffering, and mis-understanding is removed. This pilgrimage we call life is beset with trials , tribulations, this vale of tears. May God give us strength to do what is right, and to Love Him endlessly.



Sincerely Yours,

 

[FaujHistorian]

actually, islam is not only spiritual but also political and for the here and now. and this is actually good )

Every religion was political if you go back few centuries.

Why?

Modern system of politics and governance had not take shape.

However in 2014, no religion should be mixed with politics.

Politics is dirt, religion is petrol/fuel for our soul.

Once you put dirt in that petrol, your soul gets corrupted.

Hope you understand.